Did Jiren already Master the Ultra Instinct Form?

[Zagacious]

It seems like he has already mastered it, because the way he moves and reacts is just like how Goku is doing in his new form. It was also implied early on in the ToP when Jiren knew where those blocks were headed, the animation is kind of similar to how Goku is moving now. It also seems like the form is a lot more than just moving without thinking, it seems like it may be a being's maximum power being put out at all times.

Maybe the name is also implying by instinct that no power is ever held back, that the fighter is always at 100% power, at least when the form is mastered. The fact Whis knew about it also implies it's a form that anyone can potentially obtain. At first I thought Ultra Instinct was the first stage to entering being an actual god, but then one of the gods said it was difficult for even gods to obtain it, so that makes it a little more confusing.

[emperior]

It seems like he has already mastered it, because the way he moves and reacts is just like how Goku is doing in his new form. It was also implied early on in the ToP when Jiren knew where those blocks were headed, the animation is kind of similar to how Goku is moving now. It also seems like the form is a lot more than just moving without thinking, it seems like it may be a being's maximum power.

Maybe the name is also implying by instinct that no power is ever held back, that the fighter is always at 100% power, at least when the form is mastered. The fact Whis knew about it also implies it's a form that anyone can potentially obtain. At first I thought Ultra Instinct was the first stage to entering being an actual god, but then one of the gods said it was difficult for even gods to obtain it, so that makes it a little more confusing.

Jiren probably has Ultra Instinct too, but we don't know if he mastered it yet. The form doesn't take a being to his maximum possible power, because Goku was still evolving throughout his fight. And yes, it's a form everyone can potentially obtain. Though it's still a mystery how one can obtain it. And Ultra Instinct in general is still very mysterious. The Gods all know about it though, so it seems like it's something legendary and extremely special.

[Zagacious]

Jiren probably has Ultra Instinct too, but we don't know if he mastered it yet. The form doesn't take a being to his maximum possible power, because Goku was still evolving throughout his fight. And yes, it's a form everyone can potentially obtain. Though it's still a mystery how one can obtain it. And Ultra Instinct in general is still very mysterious. The Gods all know about it though, so it seems like it's something legendary and extremely special.

Ah well by master I really meant being able to use it on a regular basis, and I was also questioning whether he actually has it or not but I'm pretty certain he does. When first obtaining the form it is probably unstable/low endurance, but then after it's mastered enough for longer-term use I think it's possible that it makes a fighter fight at 100% of their power at all times. I think it would be a good 'final' form to end on since it's probably putting him close to a god of destruction's power, and potentially any species could obtain it. I'm sure after Goku rests up we'll see how powerful it really is, he's going to get a huge boost after resting up I'm sure.

[AlexB2]

Here's an idea:
A one point Jiren gathered the super dragon balls and his wish was to be able to "unlock" this form that he learned from his GoD

Thoughts?

[fadeddreams5]

He may. A good indication would be how effortlessly he blocked Hit. Not to mention, in the NEP, it seems that he's able to counter the time skip. Not out-speed Hit, but literally react and counter all his attacks instantaneously.

That said, if that's the case, it's strange that nobody pointed it out, yet everyone went crazy when Goku did it. So that right there is indication that he might not have it.

[Zagacious]

Here's an idea:
A one point Jiren gathered the super dragon balls and his wish was to be able to "unlock" this form that he learned from his GoD

Thoughts?

I think it's unlikely only because he wants the Super Dragon Balls now for something as was mentioned in this last episode. It's possible he gathered them before and wants something else, but I think he more likely gained the ability through either training, assistance from the gods, or just because his species is incredibly powerful.

A bigger question is what does he want the Super Dragon Balls for, but we have nothing really to go off yet.

He may. A good indication would be how effortlessly he blocked Hit. Not to mention, in the NEP, it seems that he's able to counter the time skip. Not out-speed Hit, but literally react and counter all his attacks instantaneously.

That said, if that's the case, it's strange that nobody pointed it out, yet everyone went crazy when Goku did it. So that right there is indication that he might not have it.

That's a good point that no one really noticed it, but it's probably because they witnessed Goku change and attain the form, while if Jiren already has the form then there's probably not much change to notice. The episode right before the tournament started with Jiren detecting those blocks' movement kind of hints at it, but it could be some sort of other ability he has.

It's also possible that some of the gods already know about Jiren since Whis already knew some information about him.

[GodVegetto91]

It seems like he has already mastered it, because the way he moves and reacts is just like how Goku is doing in his new form. It was also implied early on in the ToP when Jiren knew where those blocks were headed, the animation is kind of similar to how Goku is moving now. It also seems like the form is a lot more than just moving without thinking, it seems like it may be a being's maximum power being put out at all times.

Maybe the name is also implying by instinct that no power is ever held back, that the fighter is always at 100% power, at least when the form is mastered. The fact Whis knew about it also implies it's a form that anyone can potentially obtain. At first I thought Ultra Instinct was the first stage to entering being an actual god, but then one of the gods said it was difficult for even gods to obtain it, so that makes it a little more confusing.

It is a God Form, and it makes Goku an actual Deity. The point is, that these Gods on the sidelines are born as Gods (or at least the Kaioshins) while the Gods of Destruction have the official title/job of destroyer Gods. Goku was originally born as a mortal Saiyan. And spend pretty much his entire life as one, until he became an Artificial God in the Battle of Gods arc.

About Jiren having mastered this ability aswell, it seems very likely, and it certainly appears that way, judging by all his actions thus far, however, the only counter-argument to that is my reply above, all the Gods were surprised that a "mortal" could achieve this state, as if no one in this tournament could do it before, hence including Jiren in that category.

[Zagacious]

It is a God Form, and it makes Goku an actual Deity. The point is, that these Gods on the sidelines are born as Gods (or at least the Kaioshins) while the Gods of Destruction have the official title/job of destroyer Gods. Goku was originally born as a mortal Saiyan. And spend pretty much his entire life as one, until he became an Artificial God in the Battle of Gods arc.

About Jiren having mastered this ability aswell, it seems very likely, and it certainly appears that way, judging by all his actions thus far, however, the only counter-argument to that is my reply above, all the Gods were surprised that a "mortal" could achieve this state, as if no one in this tournament could do it before, hence including Jiren in that category.

Well that first paragraph is a lot of speculation as nothing has really been stated about it except "It is difficult even for gods to obtain", although I tend to agree that it seems like a step into actual godhood beyond what SSG and SSB were. I also believe that SSG and SSB are kind of like artificial god forms in a way. This seems more like the true "Super Saiyan God" legend that Beerus heard about than SSG does.

[Kanious]

I think and hope that Jiren has god ki and this ultra instinct.

Maybe everyone wasn't surprised at all on Jiren because everyone somehow knew that he was the "boss"

[mute_proxy]

I think and hope that Jiren has god ki and this ultra instinct.

Maybe everyone wasn't surprised at all on Jiren because everyone somehow knew that he was the "boss"

He doesnt have god ki, everyone felt him after he charged up.

[GodKaio-Ken]

It could be he hasnt mastered it and is just incredibly strong naturally or through his regular training. I could see it being either way, if he has it the Gods geeking out makes less sense.

[Desassina]

I think that Jiren has focused his power inside the body, and that it leaked when Goku attacked him before losing his new state, akin to a completed SSJ Blue losing his focus for a moment. I can't imagine Jiren powering up further, but having some sort of weakness to deal with his meditation, when nobody else should be able to match Goku.

[emperior]

Thinking about it, they never confirmed that Jiren has Ultra Instinct, and that has been treated like a huge deal by the Gods. Maybe Jiren is just so overwhelmingly strong he was able to block and dodge almost all Goku's attacks. The Ultra Instinct did in fact power up Goku but the gap between him and Jiren was so huge he was still a little weaker. But over time it was noted the Ultra Instinct was closing the gap and Jiren couldn't lay a finger on Goku, so I assume Goku will win the second fight if it happens, unless Jiren unlocks or decides to start using Ultra Instinct too.

[Zagacious]

I think and hope that Jiren has god ki and this ultra instinct.

Maybe everyone wasn't surprised at all on Jiren because everyone somehow knew that he was the "boss"

He doesnt have god ki, everyone felt him after he charged up.

The writing hasn't followed that rule for a long time.

[TheOne]

I think we saw before the tournament began that Jirenhad Ultra Instinct.

Another thing that surprised me was that none of the exempt Gods of Destruction mentioned anything about Jiren, which means one of two things. 1) They've done so well in nurturing their universes that they already have mortals that surpass them. 2) Maybe it's not their first time hearing about Jiren.

Weird speculation here. But what if jiren isn't originally from U11? What if his (and Freeza's) universe were one of those that got erased awhile back and he wants to wish them back? Or he has a grudge against the Dieties? That'd make an interesting arc and would explain why Frieza and Jiren(speculation) were born unnaturally strong.

[mute_proxy]

I think and hope that Jiren has god ki and this ultra instinct.

Maybe everyone wasn't surprised at all on Jiren because everyone somehow knew that he was the "boss"

He doesnt have god ki, everyone felt him after he charged up.

The writing hasn't followed that rule for a long time.

It has. Sensing pressure and sensing ki is not the same.

[GodKaio-Ken]

He doesnt have god ki, everyone felt him after he charged up.

The writing hasn't followed that rule for a long time.

It has. Sensing pressure and sensing ki is not the same.

Not sure how long youve been a member but there are tons of examples of Super not following this rule whether intentional or otherwise. Ill try and find some later. Honestly this site has made me realize how inconsistent a lot of the writing in the series is.

[Zagacious]

The writing hasn't followed that rule for a long time.

It has. Sensing pressure and sensing ki is not the same.

Not sure how long youve been a member but there are tons of examples of Super not following this rule whether intentional or otherwise. Ill try and find some later. Honestly this site has made me realize how inconsistent a lot of the writing in the series is.

Yes, there are, they say things like 'His power has drastically increased now' when going into SSB, there's tons of examples but I don't really want to go into it now, he can look them up or rewatch the episodes if he wants proof. It's like the flying rule they almost 100% have forgotten. There's no guarantee Ultra Instinct emits god ki either, although it's somewhat implied.

Now that I think about, originally the universes weren't able to sense a person's energy from another universe, but now it seems like they easily can. Honestly not a big deal.. but if they're going to point it out multiple times they might as well stick to it (I believe it was around the beginning/trio de dangers episodes of the ToP)

[GodVegetto91]

I think and hope that Jiren has god ki and this ultra instinct.

Maybe everyone wasn't surprised at all on Jiren because everyone somehow knew that he was the "boss"

He doesnt have god ki, everyone felt him after he charged up.

Stop! He does have God ki. Stop misleading people. They felt his "heat" that's very different from feeling his actual energy. This IS a God form. It even has a similair aura to both his SSJ God form and Beerus' Aura. Hell even Merged Zamasu's! There's no question about it. This form has God ki.

[GodVegetto91]

What's more, Dokkan Battle has this form even listed in their special "Godly Dimension".
http://dbz-dokkanbattle.wikia.com/wiki/Godly_Dimension