Super 17 vs Super's 17

[Totamo]

Which Android 17 do you prefer?

[Steven Bloodriver]

Which Android 17 do you prefer?

Android 17 from Dragon Ball Super. As completely unlike the former villain, Super 17 from Dragon Ball GT sucks BIG TIME.

[Vijay]

Obviously, GT's Super 17

His badassery was full-on.

Feats were impressive as well considerin how short Super 17 Arc was in GT

Killed Krillin, KO'ed 18, pummeled Veggie, Gohan, Goten, Majuub. Dude even fkin blasted Gero & Dr. Myuu

Ragged SSJ4 Goku & played mind-games with him to an extent.

Now, can you mention a single noteworthy moment 17 in Super anime series has accomplished ?

[TheMikado]

Obviously, GT's Super 17

His badassery was full-on.

Feats were impressive as well considerin how short Super 17 Arc was in GT

Killed Krillin, KO'ed 18, pummeled Veggie, Gohan, Goten, Majuub. Dude even fkin blasted Gero & Dr. Myuu

Ragged SSJ4 Goku & played mind-games with him to an extent.

Now, can you mention a single noteworthy moment 17 in Super anime series has accomplished ?

In hindsight the guy accomplished a significant amount of havoc in a short period of time and joined the ranks of only a handful of enemies to successfully kill Krillin.
I think 17 had a nice showing in Super, but only by way of powering him up via arbitrary training.

There was something both had to accomplish for 17 to be relevant again and it was to power him up significantly and it was handled differently in both cases.
17 threatening Maron and killing Krillin was also an emotional arc for 18 who rarely shows emotion in Z so I would argue that it was the best showing for both androids in terms of their humanity and relationships.
Thinking back on it, seeing 18 have a growth arc was probably the most rewarding aspect of it.

[FortuneSSJ]

DBS 17, because GT 17 barely did anything.
In fact, just like Freeza i think he's better than ever in DBS. I never cared about his character until now.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Apples and Oranges.

Why are fans so content on comparing thinks all the time? Just let things be.

Also if you're gonna start a new topic at least have the courtesy to make a worthwhile post to accompany it.

[Lord Beerus]

Super's version of #17 is superior to GT's version, and it's not even remotely close.

#17 in Super came back strong enough to face SSJB Goku, displayed great tactical and physical prowess in offensive and defensive battle, has played a critical role in ensuring the safety of his universe (for now) with his fantastic performance in the Tournament Of Power, but the most important aspect of Super's incarnation of #17 over GT's incarnation is that his character arc got a progression and a definitive end. His story got closure. He has a happy life, with a well paying job that he enjoys a lot and has wife and children and is living in peace. He basically got the happy ending that #18 got but with more depth and personal meaning.

#17 in GT has nothing going for him. He's the same guy we last saw from when he was donating energy to Goku's Genki Dama in kill Kid Boo. Hell, he's even wearing an identical coat to the one he wore when he made that cameo appearance in the Majin Boo arc! In GT, we find out nothing about his character, how he's changed or some kind of backstory to his life that would have made his fall into villainy somewhat sympathetic. Even his big moment of killing Krillin means nothing because Krillin is brought back to life anyway. I also couldn't give a flying fuck about the "feats" #17 achieves in GT (I'm seriously starting to resent the word "feats" as a replacement for character moments or growth, like I see some fans doing), because I ultimately don't have anything to emotionally and personally get attached to when #17 pulls his arbitrary Face/Heel turn, when he kills Krillin or even when dies at the hands of Goku. I feel nothing towards #17 in GT and that was big problem I had with the Super 17 arc... I didn't care about anything regarding #17 specifically because the show gave me no reason to care for #17.

In Super, I'm invested in #17 because we see fully just how much his character has evolved, how much his life has positively changed from his perspective, how well he integrates with the cast (I absolutely loved the moment where he and Piccolo basically buried the hatchet and became allies), and how immensely useful and practical, whether its in strength, teamwork or strategy, he is in combat. In GT, there's nothing for me to be invested in with the character. So I don't ultimately care for how strong he gets or what he accomplishes in battle. #17 was brought into the fold in GT and it didn't matter. It lead to nothing for no-one.

[sunsetshimmer]

17 from DBS is actually one of the very few characters that do not suck in series. Although he seems a bit lifeless. Almost like a zombie.
Still, he probably has the most badass moments in Super.

I prefer Super 17 because he looked badass and was able to wreck everyone.
I like that, unlike Golden Frieza, they actually made him come back with unique, yet still characteristic design and abilities.
I only wish that regular 17 in GT had more screentime and new outfit like he has in Super.
I'm glad that they wished him back at the end of GT tho. For some dumb reason many people actually think that 17 was evil in GT.

[nickzambuto]

Super's version of #17 is superior to GT's version, and it's not even remotely close.

#17 in Super came back strong enough to face SSJB Goku, displayed great tactical and physical prowess in offensive and defensive battle, has played a critical role in ensuring the safety of his universe (for now) with his fantastic performance in the Tournament Of Power, but the most important aspect of Super's incarnation of #17 over GT's incarnation is that his character arc got a progression and a definitive end. His story got closure. He has a happy life, with a well paying job that he enjoys a lot and has wife and children and is living in peace. He basically got the happy ending that #18 got but with more depth and personal meaning.

#17 in GT has nothing going for him. He's the same guy we last saw from when he was donating energy to Goku's Genki Dama in kill Kid Boo. Hell, he's even wearing an identical coat to the one he wore when he made that cameo appearance in the Majin Boo arc! In GT, we find out nothing about his character, how he's changed or some kind of backstory to his life that would have made his fall into villainy somewhat sympathetic. Even his big moment of killing Krillin means nothing because Krillin is brought back to life anyway. I also couldn't give a flying fuck about the "feats" #17 achieves in GT (I'm seriously starting to resent the word "feats" as a replacement for character moments or growth, like I see some fans doing), because I ultimately don't have anything to emotionally and personally get attached to when #17 pulls his arbitrary Face/Heel turn, when he kills Krillin or even when dies at the hands of Goku. I feel nothing towards #17 in GT and that was big problem I had with the Super 17 arc... I didn't care about anything regarding #17 specifically because the show gave me no reason to care for #17.

In Super, I'm invested in #17 because we see fully just how much his character has evolved, how much his life has positively changed from his perspective, how well he integrates with the cast (I absolutely loved the moment where he and Piccolo basically buried the hatchet and became allies), and how immensely useful and practical, whether its in strength, teamwork or strategy, he is in combat. In GT, there's nothing for me to be invested in with the character. So I don't ultimately care for how strong he gets or what he accomplishes in battle. #17 was brought into the fold in GT and it didn't matter. It lead to nothing for no-one.

10/10 post, but I don't think people are using feats as a replacement for character growth. They ARE for character moments, but aren't feats a big part of the broad and vague term "character moments"?

[Ki Breaker]

Super's 17..
He is pretty chill, and the manga does justice to his power growth as well, there really is nothing to complain about him..

[shadowmaria]

I think the issue people have with comparing the two appearances of the character is that they're not taking into account that GT aired over 20 years ago. Before Toriyama's added backstory for 17 (wife and children, island ranger, etc.), before Super.

As far as anybody was aware in the mid-90's, the #17 that we saw had met Trunks and the gang off screen (I believe that Trunks recognising #17 was dub only, but I can't double check) since the fight with Buu, but nothing else had happened in his life. As far as most were concerned, there was no in-between development as #17 was off wandering around with a rifle in nature parks, apparently without a bomb in his chest.

Now we know otherwise; 17 has a family, he has a job, he's had development with 18, Krillin, and Marron. Say what you will about GT's canonicity, but I've gone back in the last month and rewatched the Super 17 arc for fun (because I actually enjoy the arc a lot) and found myself more emotionally invested in 17's arc in GT. It's even more heartbreaking because there's the questions of his family, of his ranger life. Why has he left it behind to blow up Trunks' limousine? Oh! That's why, a vaguely described heel turn. I've gone from being upset because this is the first time these characters have seen 17 in over a decade (in universe) and he's immediately killing his brother-in-law, threatening his sister and his niece, and then proceeds to merge / fuse with his Hell Fighter counterpart and absolutely destroy the Z-Fighters, to being upset because we don't know what happened to his family and ranger life. Not really. There's an extra emotional weight, an extra emotional heart tug.

Hell, if it wasn't for 18 showing up in the end, I daresay that Goku would never have defeated Super 17.

As mentioned upthread;

Killed Krillin, KO'ed 18, pummeled Veggie, Gohan, Goten, Majuub. Dude even fkin blasted Gero & Dr. Myuu. Ragged SSJ4 Goku & played mind-games with him to an extent.

Compare this to absolutely incredible showing he's had in Super so far. He's matched holding back Super Saiyan Blue Goku (whilst holding back), eliminated four competitors (out of eighty, of which included; Viara (essentially presented as stubborn fodder), Vikal (not presented as anything major), Sanka Ku (one of the Kamikaze Fireballs and Universe 2's ace team (prior to the second incarnation - if you will - of their team)), Su Roas (a second member of the Kamikaze Fireballs), and smashed the freaking battery pack (of sorts) of Aniraza after shield=phasing through his power ball, which in-turn allowed Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan, and Golden Frieza (who were having trouble keeping the ball at bay with some of their full power at use) to eliminate Aniraza. Not only that, he's also been going toe-to-toe with the majestic God of Destruction candidate; Toppo (who wrecked Super Saiyan Blue Goku and was about to show his full power before their first match was stopped by the Grand Priest) with no sign of letting up.

Let's even go back to Z and History of Trunks. This guy went one-on-one in one of the best fights of Z (vs Piccolo who had just fused with Kami and had held off Imperfect Cell, who seemed slightly weaker than 16), continuously defeated Future Trunks in the future world as well as killed Future Gohan (I know there's the power discrepancy - the present Android's were stronger than Trunks' - not the point), who likely had had numerous Zenkai Boosts prior to his death.

This is also keeping in mind that, based on his conversation with Goku in Super, it's stated that 17 might have actually defeated Goku (who seemed to be weaker than the fused Super Namekian named above), says a lot about his powers, abilities, and feats.

So how do I compare Super #17 and Super's #17? I don't. In my mind - aside from the Kibito Kai discrepancy which Super has two months to fix - GT is canon (not the place for a discussion on this), so this is a wonderful pre-curser to his emotional journey and arc in GT.

Just my two cents

[Tian]

Definitely Super's 17.

He's way more developed than GT Super 17.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Nice thread title. I never really cared much for 17 at all until Super. I really like his showing in Super a lot, so I'd say Super's 17.

[Whatever]

Super's 17 of course,Super 17 was pretty much a non character and a horrible villain,seriously Goku had to be an idiot for him to become a threat.

[Professor Freeza]

I think today's episode settles it.

[emperior]

Super's 17 wins hands down. I never cared for 17 before he was reintroduced in Super, and so far he has been handled so well he has become one of my favorite characters.

[Cipher]

I mean, one's an actual character, and one's just an obstacle. Nothing wrong with either in their contexts, but it's hard not to give it to Super's 17, who, especially as of episode 125, has become quite an enjoyable character with a unique personality among the fighting cast.

Super 17 is perfectly fun for what he is, though—an interlude villain with some interesting gimmicks and some connection to the cast.

[Jord]

GT's 17. A whole different look, new techniques and an interesting way to power him up already show that the show put a lot more effort into reviving the character than they did in Super. The doubt whether 17 was in control of Super 17 or not was a nice wrinkle and it let to some interactions with 18. It felt like the bond between 18 and 17 really meant something for 18 with 18 even making the difference during the final battle. Power wise, Super 17 is a lot stronger than it's Super counterpart which was basically DBZ 17 recycled.

Super''s 17 basically took the 17 from the Genki Dama scene from DBZ and basically called it a day.
So Super's 17 has a family now...that it's nice. How about showing us his family instead of telling us about it. It would mean that much more if we saw him say goodbye to his family before leaving. When we look at his techniques they aren't radically updated from his DBZ days even though he found some creative uses for his shield.

[Cetra]

17 himself for looks as I hate this mullet-like hairstyle Super 17 has just because they did not want to cover face with hair. Super 17 from the perspective of narratively bringing Goku to the point where he does not know what to do anymore, which happens for Baby, 17 and Yi Xing but in terms of what they did with 17, I prefer the momentary 17.

[t0ffe3m4n]

Really enjoyed 17's development in Super, he has a new fan in me for sure...

... but Super 17 was next level badass. I actually like him more now that we've seen 17's development in Super as in hindsight it's actually reinforced how his power spike & combat prowess was made possible.