Make the other characters matter again
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DragonBallZFan96
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Make the other characters matter again
Remember way back during the first few seasons of of DBZ when fights didn't rely exclusively on Goku? I miss the times when Piccolo was just about as strong as Goku. One of my all time favorite fights still remains the Vegeta and Nappa vs all of the Z fighters. Everyone had a role to play in that fight it was group effort, that took everything they all had to win it. Even Yajirobe played a part in taking down Vegeta. Yes, ultimately it came down to Goku saving the day. But, wasn't anything like it is now. Where everyone else is just watching in the background, and really have no role in the fights vs the big bad. I'd really like to see more fights where the other characters play a major role again. Where Goku can't beat them without their help. How cool would it be to see a battle where Piccolo or one of Goku's human friends gets to be a badass for once instead of him. Or maybe a huge team up of all the characters vs someone so powerful it takes the same kind of effort it took to beat Vegeta. Maybe I am in the minority, but personally it would be great seeing characters who aren't Saiyan's matter again.
- Lightdasher
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Re: Make the other characters matter again
If you are in the minority, then so am I, and I've seen quite a few others within this minority as well; I would like for the same to come to pass. One of my favorite moments within the Super manga is the defeat of Zamasu/Black, mainly because it wasn't Goku himself saving the day again. He still played a big part, but I feel like that's the closest we get now. Goku even had to come back for Cell and Buu to finally be put down. It's definitely annoying that so many other characters are shoved to the side, they may as well call it the Goku show.
Besides, in your example, Goku wasn't the one to land the final blows to Vegeta. He was even out of commission at the time! Teamwork between so many characters played a big role in taking Vegeta down, and I feel that's a big reason for why the struggle against Nappa and Vegeta was such a spectacle.
Besides, in your example, Goku wasn't the one to land the final blows to Vegeta. He was even out of commission at the time! Teamwork between so many characters played a big role in taking Vegeta down, and I feel that's a big reason for why the struggle against Nappa and Vegeta was such a spectacle.
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- ABED
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Re: Make the other characters matter again
But you are basing this solely on Z. The Saiyan arc is atypical. DB is more often than not about Goku and his journey.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Make the other characters matter again
Sadly, if there was one arc that could've made use of the non-saiyans, it's the TOP, but even here it all came down to Goku in the end, with Vegeta coming in close second as always. Gohan got his moment too.
Don't get me wrong, Krillin, Piccolo, Roshi,18, and especially 17 got great moments too, but the shows makes it painfully clear that it belongs to Goku. Other franchises sometimes recognize the value of their side-characters, and try to build them up as well, but DB is one of those stories where the lead stands out so starkly that it just needs to have him be levels above the rest.
Vegeta is the only one that sometimes comes close, but I often feel like it's only because they want Goku to have his assigned blue-coded shonen rival.
But yes, what I wouldn't give to have the writers be more creative and braver when it comes to the side characters.
Don't get me wrong, Krillin, Piccolo, Roshi,18, and especially 17 got great moments too, but the shows makes it painfully clear that it belongs to Goku. Other franchises sometimes recognize the value of their side-characters, and try to build them up as well, but DB is one of those stories where the lead stands out so starkly that it just needs to have him be levels above the rest.
Vegeta is the only one that sometimes comes close, but I often feel like it's only because they want Goku to have his assigned blue-coded shonen rival.
But yes, what I wouldn't give to have the writers be more creative and braver when it comes to the side characters.
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Re: Make the other characters matter again
The other characters contributing was one of the Saiyan arcs strengths, but the lead being the focal point isn't unique. Batman will get the bulk of the focus in his own book, even when he's working with partners.
The thing I liked about the Freeza arc, one of anyway, is that Gohan and Kuririn were given something vital to do that didn't require them to be super strong, i.e., find the Dragon Balls.
The thing I liked about the Freeza arc, one of anyway, is that Gohan and Kuririn were given something vital to do that didn't require them to be super strong, i.e., find the Dragon Balls.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- Kunzait_83
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Re: Make the other characters matter again
Core series
Pilaf arc: Goku and to a lesser extent Yamucha primarily do the fighting (but this is an atypically gag-centric arc anyway)
21st Budokai: Tournament arc, full cast gets to shine
Red Ribbon arc: Overwhelmingly Goku's show, with some minimal input by Kuririn (and at Baba's, Yamucha)
22nd Budokai: Tournament arc, full cast gets to shine
Daimao arc: Overwhelmingly Goku, with some small support by Tenshinhan and Yajirobe
23rd Budokai: Tournament arc, full cast gets to shine
Saiya-jin arc: Full group effort
Freeza arc: Full group effort (among the surviving cast at least)
Cell arc: Goku and Gohan-centric (Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo play supporting roles)
Boo arc: Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta-centric (Goten and Trunks play supporting roles)
GT
Baby arc: Goku, with support from Pan and Trunks
Super 17 arc: Goku, with VERY small support from everyone else
Evil Shen Long arc: Goku, with support from Vegeta and Pan
Super
Battle of Gods: Goku, full stop
Resurrection F: Goku and Vegeta, with rest of cast as support
Champa arc: Goku, with Vegeta and Piccolo as support
Future Trunks/Goku Black/Zamasu arc: Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta-centric straight on
Universe Survival/Tournament of Power arc: Battle royale tournament, everyone (+Freeza) gets to shine
Tournaments aside, there's really only two arcs in the series that genuinely feel remotely ensemble-esque, and they just so happen to be Z's first two arcs. The consistent throughline throughout ALL OF IT of course is... Goku. The one and ONLY arc where Goku plays NO role whatsoever is Galric Jr., which is anime/filler only (and is INCREDIBLY brief anyways).
So yes: the problem is less that the series isn't a fulltime ensemble piece so much as the Western fans are primarily gauging it through the lens of Z and oftentimes leaving the whole first half of the series completely by the wayside entirely.
This was NEVER a "team-based" series: this has ALWAYS been mainly Goku's story, with a robust (and ever-rotating) supporting cast acting as his backup.
Z doesn't and never has existed in a self-contained vacuum, so STOP treating it as if its the primary nucleus around which everything else revolves when that's NEVER been the case: there's a whole entire first half worth of series that you all keep constantly glossing over for no real reason besides stupid marketing BS.
Pilaf arc: Goku and to a lesser extent Yamucha primarily do the fighting (but this is an atypically gag-centric arc anyway)
21st Budokai: Tournament arc, full cast gets to shine
Red Ribbon arc: Overwhelmingly Goku's show, with some minimal input by Kuririn (and at Baba's, Yamucha)
22nd Budokai: Tournament arc, full cast gets to shine
Daimao arc: Overwhelmingly Goku, with some small support by Tenshinhan and Yajirobe
23rd Budokai: Tournament arc, full cast gets to shine
Saiya-jin arc: Full group effort
Freeza arc: Full group effort (among the surviving cast at least)
Cell arc: Goku and Gohan-centric (Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo play supporting roles)
Boo arc: Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta-centric (Goten and Trunks play supporting roles)
GT
Baby arc: Goku, with support from Pan and Trunks
Super 17 arc: Goku, with VERY small support from everyone else
Evil Shen Long arc: Goku, with support from Vegeta and Pan
Super
Battle of Gods: Goku, full stop
Resurrection F: Goku and Vegeta, with rest of cast as support
Champa arc: Goku, with Vegeta and Piccolo as support
Future Trunks/Goku Black/Zamasu arc: Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta-centric straight on
Universe Survival/Tournament of Power arc: Battle royale tournament, everyone (+Freeza) gets to shine
Tournaments aside, there's really only two arcs in the series that genuinely feel remotely ensemble-esque, and they just so happen to be Z's first two arcs. The consistent throughline throughout ALL OF IT of course is... Goku. The one and ONLY arc where Goku plays NO role whatsoever is Galric Jr., which is anime/filler only (and is INCREDIBLY brief anyways).
So yes: the problem is less that the series isn't a fulltime ensemble piece so much as the Western fans are primarily gauging it through the lens of Z and oftentimes leaving the whole first half of the series completely by the wayside entirely.
This was NEVER a "team-based" series: this has ALWAYS been mainly Goku's story, with a robust (and ever-rotating) supporting cast acting as his backup.
Z doesn't and never has existed in a self-contained vacuum, so STOP treating it as if its the primary nucleus around which everything else revolves when that's NEVER been the case: there's a whole entire first half worth of series that you all keep constantly glossing over for no real reason besides stupid marketing BS.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
- TheZFighter
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Re: Make the other characters matter again
I've said it on here before, and I'm aware it probably isn't a popular or shared opinion, but even as a child in the late 90s/ early 00s I always felt like I wanted to see more of the "original" group; Goku, Bulma, Yamcha, Krillin, Launch, Tien, Chiaotzu and Yajirobe, plus Oolong, Umigame, Roshi and Puar. Missed opportunity for me on a personal level as I've always loved those characters and would've preferred more of them to Gohan, Goten and Trunks.
Z-Fighters fan.
Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Android 18, Goten, Trunks and Majin Buu.
Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Android 18, Goten, Trunks and Majin Buu.
Re: Make the other characters matter again
While true, DB was grounded enough (comparatively of course) that the other cast weren't completely behind the dust.ABED wrote:But you are basing this solely on Z. The Saiyan arc is atypical. DB is more often than not about Goku and his journey.

