Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
This is nothing more than a possibility, so whoever's about to jump out of their seats with guns on their shoulders, settle down
As we already know, Gohan's Ki filled almost half of the amount of energy needed to revive Buu:
In this same scan Dabura says that the energy from the 3 Saiyans (Goku, Gohan and Vegeta) will be enough to fill the other half. Meaning Base Saiyans' energies are relative to Ssj2 Gohan at the very bottom least.
The energy Spopovitch and Yamu took from Gohan could be even more than what Gohan showed to Kibito and the others since they took the energy hidden inside Gohan anyways. At that time Dabura wasn't aware of Super Saiyans and he even underestimated them in his head to Pui Pui's level, yet he still considers them powerful enough that they'd fill the second half.
Thoughts?
People I'm always keen to Debate with for the sole purpose of increasing experience and joy:
Spoiler:
1.) People who depend on factual material, evidences and valid supports rather than speculation and opinions
2.) People who are ready to debate you and are capable of providing evidence on par, if not more, than me
3.) People who logically argue over things, and rightfully concede if they are wrong, without pointless resistance for the purpose of maintaining one's own beliefs. (This also applies to me)
4.) People who are blunt. Being so nice in debates is fine, but it sometimes restricts people from expressing all their knowledge and arguments. Though that doesn't mean you should be rude and disrespectful
5.) People who debate with passion. I don't stand debating with people who do not enjoy debating with me. It's fair that both me and the other debater are willing to Debate for the enjoyment of it
6.) People who don't like to drag a debate for long. Just debate for a specific set of point; Debating for a predetermined amount, and leave the debate as it is, left to be judged by others. Dragging debates pointlessly results in nothing but Agreeing to Disagree (forcefully) and sometimes flame wars, which aren't favourable results.
7.) People who argue with a powerful tone, though they must have the experience to back it up.
8.) People who show clarity. I need to understand the person I'm debating as much as possible. Though the one I'm debating, including me, should be capable of understanding the other in general, so no blaming would occur
9.) People who are capable of making worthy Rebuttals.
10.) People who are used to Debating Often.
With doing all that, My experience would increase dramatically, and my joy would jump even further. I'd like to make sure my time was never wasted while debating.
Nuh uh. If we go by Vegeta's assessment of Goku's power, he didn't acknowledge that Goku had surpassed SSJ2 Gohan until Goku himself went SSJ2.
Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight
Goku: “I don’t wanna take any damage from you and have it become Majin Boo’s energy…So I’m gonna end this quickly, at maximum power.”
Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!”
Dabura, Babidi, and even Kaioshin(despite actually being present for SSJ2 Gohan) were all very ignorant of the power that Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan had. They were guessing for the most part. Had any of them done their homework(looking at you, Kaioshin) then they would have shown a much, more accurate assessment of the Saiyans instead of that poor-excuse-for-story-writing crap show that we were treated to.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter
There's far into it than that. If you manage to prove that Ssj2 multiplier from the Cell Games > Ssj2 multiplier on the usual line, then the argument would stand completely unscathed.
People I'm always keen to Debate with for the sole purpose of increasing experience and joy:
Spoiler:
1.) People who depend on factual material, evidences and valid supports rather than speculation and opinions
2.) People who are ready to debate you and are capable of providing evidence on par, if not more, than me
3.) People who logically argue over things, and rightfully concede if they are wrong, without pointless resistance for the purpose of maintaining one's own beliefs. (This also applies to me)
4.) People who are blunt. Being so nice in debates is fine, but it sometimes restricts people from expressing all their knowledge and arguments. Though that doesn't mean you should be rude and disrespectful
5.) People who debate with passion. I don't stand debating with people who do not enjoy debating with me. It's fair that both me and the other debater are willing to Debate for the enjoyment of it
6.) People who don't like to drag a debate for long. Just debate for a specific set of point; Debating for a predetermined amount, and leave the debate as it is, left to be judged by others. Dragging debates pointlessly results in nothing but Agreeing to Disagree (forcefully) and sometimes flame wars, which aren't favourable results.
7.) People who argue with a powerful tone, though they must have the experience to back it up.
8.) People who show clarity. I need to understand the person I'm debating as much as possible. Though the one I'm debating, including me, should be capable of understanding the other in general, so no blaming would occur
9.) People who are capable of making worthy Rebuttals.
10.) People who are used to Debating Often.
With doing all that, My experience would increase dramatically, and my joy would jump even further. I'd like to make sure my time was never wasted while debating.
There's far into it than that. If you manage to prove that Ssj2 multiplier from the Cell Games > Ssj2 multiplier on the usual line, then the argument would stand completely unscathed.
Why would I need to prove that??? Since Vegeta is saying that Goku is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games then why would it need to be proven that he also would be stronger than Gohan 7 years later? Are you implying that Gohan's SSJ2 is stronger as a teenager than it was when he was a child? If so, how could Gohan have improved it? Saiyans do seem to access more of their potential power as they become adults, but that shouldn't increase the strength of their forms necessarily.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter
There's far into it than that. If you manage to prove that Ssj2 multiplier from the Cell Games > Ssj2 multiplier on the usual line, then the argument would stand completely unscathed.
Why would I need to prove that??? Since Vegeta is saying that Goku is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games then why would it need to be proven that he also would be stronger than Gohan 7 years later? Are you implying that Gohan's SSJ2 is stronger as a teenager than it was when he was a child? If so, how could Gohan have improved it? Saiyans do seem to access more of their potential power as they become adults, but that shouldn't increase the strength of their forms necessarily.
*facepalms* I didn't tell you to. Also, you messed the point horribly. Ssj2 boost in the cell games could be argued to be > 2x Ssj. If that argument is proven, then the argument you posted becomes reputable and would lose its correlation to the issue.
People I'm always keen to Debate with for the sole purpose of increasing experience and joy:
Spoiler:
1.) People who depend on factual material, evidences and valid supports rather than speculation and opinions
2.) People who are ready to debate you and are capable of providing evidence on par, if not more, than me
3.) People who logically argue over things, and rightfully concede if they are wrong, without pointless resistance for the purpose of maintaining one's own beliefs. (This also applies to me)
4.) People who are blunt. Being so nice in debates is fine, but it sometimes restricts people from expressing all their knowledge and arguments. Though that doesn't mean you should be rude and disrespectful
5.) People who debate with passion. I don't stand debating with people who do not enjoy debating with me. It's fair that both me and the other debater are willing to Debate for the enjoyment of it
6.) People who don't like to drag a debate for long. Just debate for a specific set of point; Debating for a predetermined amount, and leave the debate as it is, left to be judged by others. Dragging debates pointlessly results in nothing but Agreeing to Disagree (forcefully) and sometimes flame wars, which aren't favourable results.
7.) People who argue with a powerful tone, though they must have the experience to back it up.
8.) People who show clarity. I need to understand the person I'm debating as much as possible. Though the one I'm debating, including me, should be capable of understanding the other in general, so no blaming would occur
9.) People who are capable of making worthy Rebuttals.
10.) People who are used to Debating Often.
With doing all that, My experience would increase dramatically, and my joy would jump even further. I'd like to make sure my time was never wasted while debating.
It took goku going ss2 for majin vegeta for vegeta to confirm goku had surpassed gohans level from the cell games. The power that goku used vs yakon which let vegeta know goku had also achieved ssj2 wasn't enough for him to be sure of that.
Also while ssj2 goku and majin vegeta were > cell games gohan, the gap doesn't appear to be anything massive based on piccolo statement about majin vegeta so there is no conceivable way base goku/vegeta buu arc were > cell games ssj2 gohan
There's far into it than that. If you manage to prove that Ssj2 multiplier from the Cell Games > Ssj2 multiplier on the usual line, then the argument would stand completely unscathed.
Please stop using the word "proof" in discussions like this. Your opinion isnt suddenly proof if you post scans alongside it. All of this is subjective to some extent. You can keep your view as objective as possible but at the end of the day it is just your view and your opinion
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
There's far into it than that. If you manage to prove that Ssj2 multiplier from the Cell Games > Ssj2 multiplier on the usual line, then the argument would stand completely unscathed.
Please stop using the word "proof" in discussions like this. Your opinion isnt suddenly proof if you post scans alongside it. All of this is subjective to some extent. You can keep your view as objective as possible but at the end of the day it is just your view and your opinion
Huh? Why are you accusing me of claiming what I'm saying as factual and undebatable? Why did I even make a post about it to see others' opinions? Nice ad hominem here.
"Proof" and "Evidence" are both terms which exist that can be used to support one's point high and objectively. Also I said "if you prove" as in manage to show evidence or proof regarding the matter. But that doesn't mean it's no longer judgemental. You got the wrong idea bud
People I'm always keen to Debate with for the sole purpose of increasing experience and joy:
Spoiler:
1.) People who depend on factual material, evidences and valid supports rather than speculation and opinions
2.) People who are ready to debate you and are capable of providing evidence on par, if not more, than me
3.) People who logically argue over things, and rightfully concede if they are wrong, without pointless resistance for the purpose of maintaining one's own beliefs. (This also applies to me)
4.) People who are blunt. Being so nice in debates is fine, but it sometimes restricts people from expressing all their knowledge and arguments. Though that doesn't mean you should be rude and disrespectful
5.) People who debate with passion. I don't stand debating with people who do not enjoy debating with me. It's fair that both me and the other debater are willing to Debate for the enjoyment of it
6.) People who don't like to drag a debate for long. Just debate for a specific set of point; Debating for a predetermined amount, and leave the debate as it is, left to be judged by others. Dragging debates pointlessly results in nothing but Agreeing to Disagree (forcefully) and sometimes flame wars, which aren't favourable results.
7.) People who argue with a powerful tone, though they must have the experience to back it up.
8.) People who show clarity. I need to understand the person I'm debating as much as possible. Though the one I'm debating, including me, should be capable of understanding the other in general, so no blaming would occur
9.) People who are capable of making worthy Rebuttals.
10.) People who are used to Debating Often.
With doing all that, My experience would increase dramatically, and my joy would jump even further. I'd like to make sure my time was never wasted while debating.
DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote:
There's far into it than that. If you manage to prove that Ssj2 multiplier from the Cell Games > Ssj2 multiplier on the usual line, then the argument would stand completely unscathed.
Please stop using the word "proof" in discussions like this. Your opinion isnt suddenly proof if you post scans alongside it. All of this is subjective to some extent. You can keep your view as objective as possible but at the end of the day it is just your view and your opinion
Huh? Why are you accusing me of claiming what I'm saying as factual and undebatable? Why did I even make a post about it to see others' opinions? Nice ad hominem here.
"Proof" and "Evidence" are both terms which exist that can be used to support one's point high and objectively. Also I said "if you prove" as in manage to show evidence or proof regarding the matter. But that doesn't mean it's no longer judgemental. You got the wrong idea bud
I am just saying that you shouldn't be using the word "proof" or "prove" because those words do not apply in conversations like this. I am not insulting you or anything like you are implying.
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
