The Buu saga galaxy scene

[Locutus]

In episode 219 when Supreme Kai talks about Majin Buu we see a galaxy get destroyed. However, in the Japanese sub Kai says the same thing he says in the manga which is Buu destroyed hundred of planets in a few years. After, we see the galaxy disappear. The English dub adds that entire galaxies were erased by Buu.

My question is how does one interpret the original scene? Did Buu destroy the Galaxy over time or was the dialogue and the galaxy scene meant to be separate? I bring up the latter since Vegeta says Saiyans can also destroy hundreds of planets in a few years but didn't see the Galaxy get destroyed, only the audience does. Since the Z senshi were kept in the dark how strong Buu was, maybe the Galaxy being destroyed in one attack was meant to show us the audience Buus true power?

Video of the scene, English dub but besides the "entire galaxies" part it is accurate to Japanese sub. This isn't really a strength debate, more of what context was this scene going for.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UnVB_4GXYns

[Polyphase Avatron]

It was just added to look cool IMO.

[RandomGuy96]

My question is how does one interpret the original scene? Did Buu destroy the Galaxy over time or was the dialogue and the galaxy scene meant to be separate? I bring up the latter since Vegeta says Saiyans can also destroy hundreds of planets in a few years but didn't see the Galaxy get destroyed, only the audience does. Since the Z senshi were kept in the dark how strong Buu was, maybe the Galaxy being destroyed in one attack was meant to show us the audience Buus true power?

It was meant to illustrate Buu's power; I don't think it was meant to imply that Kaioshin was misleading anyone. The visual was inserted simply to emphasize how strong Buu was. If looked at from a child's POV it makes perfect sense and it's honestly very simple. Just think of the next biggest thing, and the next main villain (as far as the anime is concerned; the manga usually just says it rather than showing it) will be able to destroy it.

Daimao can destroy a city.

Ma Junior can destroy an island.

Piccolo at some point during the Saiyan arc training can destroy a moon.

Vegeta can destroy a planet.

Freeza can destroy a bigger planet.

Cooler (or rather his power combined with the moderately-stronger Goku's), can destroy a star.

Cell can destroy a solar system, with great effort and his strongest attack.

Fat Buu can destroy multiple solar systems easily and a whole galaxy over an extended period.

Finally, Gohan-Buu can destroy the universe, over an extended period.

[Desassina]

Broly can destroy a galaxy as well. Zeno destroyed the multiverse O_O What could destroy a timeline though?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Broly can destroy a galaxy as well. Zeno destroyed the multiverse O_O What could destroy a timeline though?

I view the galaxy thing in the Broly movies as being massively inconsistent, especially with the conflicting information from the movie itself. But in the DBS manga, Zeno destroyed the entire future timeline.

[RandomGuy96]

Broly can destroy a galaxy as well. Zeno destroyed the multiverse O_O What could destroy a timeline though?

Yes, the Super anime continues this.

Beerus/Champa can destroy a universe easily, at less than full power.

Infinite Zamasu can destroy a timeline/multiverse over an extended period.

Zen'o, the endgame of escalation, can wipe out the multiverse in seconds with the wave of a hand.

[Desassina]

But in the DBS manga, Zeno destroyed the entire future timeline.

He did it from within, by erasing its content, but what if someone were to say: "let's destroy this timeline" by merely picking it?

[Polyphase Avatron]

But in the DBS manga, Zeno destroyed the entire future timeline.

He did it from within, by erasing its content, but what if someone were to say: "let's destroy this timeline" by merely picking it?

I guess Toriyama did that to GT

[dragon boss z]

Daimao can destroy a city.

Ma Junior can destroy an island.

Piccolo at some point during the Saiyan arc training can destroy a moon.

Vegeta can destroy a planet.

Freeza can destroy a bigger planet.

Cooler (or rather his power combined with the moderately-stronger Goku's), can destroy a star.

Cell can destroy a solar system, with great effort and his strongest attack.

Fat Buu can destroy multiple solar systems easily and a whole galaxy over an extended period.

Finally, Gohan-Buu can destroy the universe, over an extended period.

This is one of the better scales I've seen. The only thing I'm not sure about is Vegeta being true planet level due to all the statements in the Namek saga implying Frieza to be the only true planet buster. But I would agree Vegeta can at least blow a chunk out of and life wipe a planet. I would probably put him at small planet level.

[RandomGuy96]

Daimao can destroy a city.

Ma Junior can destroy an island.

Piccolo at some point during the Saiyan arc training can destroy a moon.

Vegeta can destroy a planet.

Freeza can destroy a bigger planet.

Cooler (or rather his power combined with the moderately-stronger Goku's), can destroy a star.

Cell can destroy a solar system, with great effort and his strongest attack.

Fat Buu can destroy multiple solar systems easily and a whole galaxy over an extended period.

Finally, Gohan-Buu can destroy the universe, over an extended period.

This is one of the better scales I've seen. The only thing I'm not sure about is Vegeta being true planet level due to all the statements in the Namek saga implying Frieza to be the only true planet buster. But I would agree Vegeta can at least blow a chunk out of and life wipe a planet. I would probably put him at small planet level.

I should specify that I'm talking about the anime where we actually outright saw him blow up a planet (though I have no doubt the manga version could do the same, given both his statement and the out-of-universe confirmation from Daizenshuu 4). Freeza being able to destroy Planet Vegeta in his first form is notable because Vegeta, as a planet with x10 Earth's gravity, has considerably greater mass and thus is many times harder to destroy.
http://stardestroyer.net/Resources/Calc ... meter.html
According to this calculator, a planet with ten times Earth's gravity and a diameter of 140,000 km (same as Jupiter) would have a density of 5012 kg/m^3; very similar to Earth's own density of 5,515 kg/m^3, so probably a good approximation of Vegeta's size (and about four times Jupiter's density). Its gravitational binding energy would be 2.966 x 10^37 joules. This is approximately 119,000 times greater than Earth's gravitational binding energy, which is 2.487 x 10^32 joules. Now, Freeza needed a longer charge and a bigger attack to do it if the Bardock special is any indication (though his final form probably wouldn't), but it's still a huge jump in power.

[dragon boss z]

I should specify that I'm talking about the anime where we actually outright saw him blow up a planet (though I have no doubt the manga version could do the same, given both his statement and the out-of-universe confirmation from Daizenshuu 4). Freeza being able to destroy Planet Vegeta in his first form is notable because Vegeta, as a planet with x10 Earth's gravity, has considerably greater mass and thus is many times harder to destroy.
http://stardestroyer.net/Resources/Calc ... meter.html
According to this calculator, a planet with ten times Earth's gravity and a diameter of 140,000 km (same as Jupiter) would have a density of 5012 kg/m^3; very similar to Earth's own density of 5,515 kg/m^3, so probably a good approximation of Vegeta's size (and about four times Jupiter's density). Its gravitational binding energy would be 2.966 x 10^37 joules. This is approximately 119,000 times greater than Earth's gravitational binding energy, which is 2.487 x 10^32 joules. Now, Freeza needed a longer charge and a bigger attack to do it if the Bardock special is any indication (though his final form probably wouldn't), but it's still a huge jump in power.

Well we have to keep in mind King Kai's planet also had 10x gravity and was extremely small. Also you can increase a planets gravity by decreasing it's radius, not just increasing it's mass. A planet with half the mass of Earth, but also half the radius would actually have more gravity than Earth. But ya, planet Vegeta likely a harder planet to destroy than Earth.
Here are the reasons I question saiyan saga Vegeta being a full planet buster (in the manga)
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/d ... r-1786774/
Though I do agree there is a good chance he could destroy an Earth sized planet with his galic gun.

[shadowfox87]

Many fans put Kid Buu as a galaxy buster (I used to as well), but nowhere in the DBZ manga or any guidebook has it been stated that he has accomplished this feat in the past. The anime always puts extra information or scenes not found in the manga. The manga is by the original author and it should take precedence. There's a lot of misinformation on the net, so go to the original source always and use Viz translations. The final fight between SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu took place on the Kaioshin realm. Here, in Chapter 510 of the DBZ manga, the Elder Kaioshin tells Goku to do what he wants and that “this world won’t break so easily!”.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

The Kaioshin realm is 1/10th the size of Universe 7 and orbits the universe as stated in the Daizenshuu 4.
[spoiler]
Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/gods-and-cosmos/universe/[/spoiler]

As far as what occurred, the Kaioshin realm withstood their fight and did not get destroyed. In Dragon Ball Super episode 31, Jaco explains that the universe contains a tremendous number of galaxies, and that his Galactic Patrol unit only covers the Milky Way Galaxy. This is the first time this term is ever used within the Dragon Ball franchise. If we use our own Milky Way galaxy as a standard, it comprises of approximately 250 billion stars or 2.5*10^11 stars (from NASA observation). Out of these stars, astronomers have found at least 2,500 stars that have orbiting planets so 2,500 solar systems. If Super Perfect Cell represents the destructive capacity equivalent to a single solar system (which he claimed), then that represents a single star and 8 orbiting planets. Though, if Cell could just destroy the Sun with his Kamehameha, that would already destroy the solar system, so a solar system can just be equivalent to a star. To destroy a galaxy, Kid Buu would have to be at least 10^11 times more powerful than Super Perfect Cell. This does not seem logical. A Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Buu Saga) who is equal to Kid Goku is only 400x more powerful than a Base Goku that is WEAKER than Freeza’s fourth form. We know that Base Goku (BoG) < Freeza’s final form (120 million BP) because Beerus said so both in the Dragon Ball Super anime and manga. In the anime, it was directly stated when Goku powers up on King Kai's planet. In the DBS Manga, Beerus asks Whis why Goku has blonde hair and Whis responds that this is a Super Saiyan. Then, Beerus says he understands now how Goku defeated Freeza, which implies he did not understand before Goku turned into a Super Saiyan.

[spoiler]
Source: Episode 5 of DBS Anime[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
Source: Chapter 2, DBS Manga[/spoiler]

We know that SSJ2 Goku (Buu Saga) > SSJ2 Teen Gohan (Cell Saga). If SSJ2 Goku (Buu Saga) >= 1.2x SSJ2 Teen Gohan (Cell Saga), then SSJ3 Goku (Buu Saga) = 1.2x 4x SSJ2 Teen Gohan = 4.8x ~ 5x SSJ2 Teen Gohan. Then, if Kid Buu ~ SSJ3 Goku (Buu Saga) and SSJ2 Teen Gohan ~ Super Perfect Cell, Kid Buu >= 5x Super Perfect Cell. That would place Kid Buu only capable of destroying 5 solar systems (i.e. multi-solar system), not entire galaxies. One can even pick a higher multiplier than 1.2 between SSJ2 Goku > SSJ2 Teen Gohan, but it will get you nowhere near 10^11 which is the needed number for Kid Buu to be a galaxy buster.

Fans always like to overestimate and exaggerate destructive capacity. Some even put Freeza first form at star level ...*cough* SethTheProgrammer.
[spoiler]In Dragon Ball, Jackie Chun aka Master Roshi, in the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, was able to destroy the moon with a Super Kamehameha. According to the V-Jump and the Daizenshuu, Master Roshi’s battle power at that time was 139. If you're having difficulty accepting these as sources, remember that V-Jump is the very magazine that the Dragon Ball manga was published in each week. The Earth has a mass (5.972 x 10^24 kg) approximately 81 times larger than the moon’s mass (7.347 x 10^22 kg). Therefore, 81x139 = 11,259 ~ 11,000. This would be the minimum battle power necessary to destroy the Earth. Notice that I didn't use density because the Earth's density (5.51 g/cm^3) is only 1.65 times the Moon's density (3.34 g/cm^3). Obviously if Roshi is only 1.65 times stronger, he can't destroy the Earth. During the Saiyan Saga, Vegeta with a battle power of 18,000 claimed he could destroy the Earth with his Galick Gun. In addition, we saw Freeza in his first form with a battle power of 530,000 easily destroy Planet Vegeta which is assumed to be the same size of the Earth.

The Sun has a mass of 1.989 x 10^30 kg which is approximately 333,054.243 times larger than the mass of the Earth. If 11,000 BP is the minimum needed to destroy Earth, then 333,000 x 11,000 =~ 3.67 billion BP is necessary to destroy a star the size of the Sun. Freeza’s first form (530,000 BP) thus would have a destructive capacity of 530,000/11,000 =~ 48 Earth-sized planets while Vegeta (18,000 BP) would have a destructive capacity of 18,000/11,000 =~ 1.6 Earth-sized planets. Freeza’s fourth form (120 million BP) is 120 million / 11,000 =~ 10,909 Earth-sized planets which is still lower than the destructive capacity of the Sun. Freeza final form would have to be at least 33x stronger to destroy the Sun.[/spoiler]

[shadowfox87]

Sorry, that particular scene that the thread creator is asking how to interpret, is Episode 9 of Dragon Ball Z Kai and Chapter 446 of the DBZ Manga.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

In that episode, you do see many planets being wiped out and then a galaxy in the background being erased. Both the anime and manga say, "in a few years, hundreds of planets were wiped out", means over time and gradually. That blue galaxy in the background was added into the anime being erased because gradually, more planets were being wiped out in that galaxy. The less space debris and things orbiting the center black hole of a galaxy, the more it's going to look like it fades away over time. The entire galaxy wasn't wiped out by a single attack.