Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 16 - DB episodes 71-75

[Robo4900]

Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 16 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

Here we are, friends. Right at the tail-end of the second hunt for the Dragon Balls -- whether or not you consider the Baba mini-arc to be part of the Red Ribbon arc, the overall storyline they form together of Goku hunting for the balls is about to conclude. And from here on out, hunting Dragon Balls wouldn't be the main subject of a Dragon Ball storyline until GT!
So, let's enjoy this last hurrah of the adventure era of Dragon Ball.
And, on that note, we're just two weeks out from the second movie!

Previous thread: Week 15 (DB 65-70)
Next thread: Week 17 (DB 76-80)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 71 - A Great Do-or-Die Bloody Battle
Dub title: Deadly Battle / The Deadly And Bloody Battle!
Originally aired 22nd of July 1987
Episode director: Minoru Okazaki
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda

Yamucha has a tough battle with an undetectable invisible man as his opponent! Goku returns after having been instructed by Kuririn to bring Kame-Sen’nin and Bulma. Kuririn pulls down Bulma’s clothes when the timing is right, and blood shoots from Kame-Sen’nin’s noise once he sees Bulma’s chest! Bathed in this nosebleed, the invisible man’s form appears, and he is defeated by Yamucha. Kuririn’s strategy wins! Meanwhile, the battleground is moved to the “Devil’s Toilet”!

Anime-only/filler content: Goku retrieving Bulma and Roshi, Yamucha being punched about by The Invisible Man, Baba continuing to make noise for two minutes, Baba testing Goku with banquet booby traps and wanting him to be her newest fighter.

Episode 72 - Goku Steps Up! The Devil’s Toilet
Dub title: Goku's Turn / The Perils Of Devil's Toilet!
Originally aired 29th of July 1987
Episode director: Kazuhisa Takenouchi
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama

The “Devil’s Toilet” is lined with devil statues, and surrounded by a poisonous bog! The mysterious third contestant to appear is the mummy man, Mummy-kun! But in contrast to his appearance, Mummy-kun has ultra power and speed that surpasses Yamucha’s. Yamucha faces him with determination, but the difference in their power becomes clear. Still not understanding, Yamucha fights on until the end, but he is finally defeated! Then in place of Yamucha, who put up a good fight, Goku at last debuts!

Anime-only/filler content: The Mummy's summoning sequence and backstory, The Mummy stepping on Yamucha's fingers, The Mummy bending Yamucha over his back.

Episode 73 - What Is The Deadly Devil Might Beam?!
Dub title: The Devilmite Beam / A Deadly Dance On Devil's Tongues
Originally aired 5th of August 1987
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Katsumi Aoshima

The fight between Mummy-kun and Goku begins. Mummy-kun attacks furiously, but it is completely ineffective against Goku! Angered, Mummy-kun uses his bandages to attack?! The bandages wrap around his entire body, but Goku doesn’t surrender! Thinking quickly, he uses the poisonous bog to break out of the bandages, then defeats Mummy-kun with a single punch! The fourth person to appear is the devil, Devil Man! However, even Devil Man is helpless against Goku’s power?!

Anime-only/filler content: More Mummy backstory, The Mummy using his bandages to wrap Goku, extensions to the Devil Man and Gohan conversation and the Gang thinking Devil Man is an easy victory for Goku.

Episode 74 - A Glimpse at the Mysterious Fifth Man
Dub title: The Mysterious Fifth Man / The Mysterious Fifth Fighter
Originally aired 12th of August 1987
Episode director: Kazuhisa Takenouchi
Animation supervisor: Mitsuo Shindo

Devil Man has a rough battle against Goku’s overwhelming power, and fires the Devil Might Beam. It’s a frightful attack that infinitely multiplies the tiny evil hidden without a person’s heart, causing them to explode! Goku is bathed in the Devil Might Beam, but for some reason it doesn’t work on him! It turns out that Goku somehow doesn’t possess an evil heart!! Goku finally blows Devil Man away! And then the firth man finally appears, but for some reason Goku feels nostalgic.

Anime-only/filler content: Devil Man trying the Devil Might Beam a second time, Goku hanging off the side of the golem tongue with his tail, the tea break with the Ghost Usher.

Episode 75 - Clash!! The Kindred Formidable Enemy
Dub title: The Strong Ones / The Clash For The Dragon Ball
Originally aired 19th of August 1987
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Tomekichi Takeuchi

The fox mask-wearing fifth man is no ordinary person! A breathless offensive-defensive battle unfolds!! And then the fox mask man fires a Kamehameha of all things! But Goku doesn’t lose, and returns fire with his own Kamehameha, knocking the man down! In the instant it seemed like Goku had won, the fox mask man grabs onto Goku’s weakness, his tail! Seeing this, Kame-Sen’nin realizes the fox mask man’s identity. He says that the opponent’s identity is Son Goku’s dead adoptive grandfather, Son Gohan!!

Anime-only/filler content: Goku charging at Gohan, Baba angrily trying to get Gohan to continue fighting while a cloud passes over, Goku and Gohan striking each other with their hands, the interlude before Gohan charges a Kamehameha.

-

Interesting trivia:

• The Blue Water dub title for episode 71, "The Deadly And Bloody Battle!", in its usual place on here to the right of the Funi episode title (aside from cases where the two have identical titles), is anecdotal, as not a single copy of this episode has surfaced anywhere to prove that this is its title.
  • Speaking of anecdotal accounts about the dubs, the way the two known* English dubs censored the Bulma flash scene on TV has been described rather interestingly; in Funimation's TV dub, apparently they use stock footage of Roshi opening the can of beer from movie 2 and change dialogue to say Kuririn's strategy is to fetch a can of tomato soup from Roshi's house, and pour it all over Mr Invisible. Blue Water's dub apparently just cut the frames where you can see her boobs, but otherwise left the scene intact.
    However, no one seems to have footage of either of these to prove either anecdote, so take these both with a pinch of salt.
    *There is a third English dub of OG DB in its entirety, which was produced in Hong Kong for Animax. Aside from a couple of seconds of it on a demo reel for one of the actors who was in it, not a single second of this dub has surfaced, and no one in the fandom seems to know anything about it.
• Speaking of the scene of Bulma's flashing, the anime version is actually rather toned-down compared to the manga (the anime's storyboard version appears to split the difference). While in the anime, Bulma's breasts are crudely-drawn yet visible, but only for about two or three frames, the manga fully renders the scene in a panel a third the size of its page, with her breasts on full display. Unsurprisingly, various versions of the Viz manga have censored this scene by drawing a bra on top.
• Thanks to Twitter user KeywordEnigma, we can all enjoy a ton of storyboards from episode 71 of Dragon Ball: https://twitter.com/KeywordEnigma/statu ... 6189064194
• These episodes are the first time Gohan has been visually depicted, so first time viewers/readers would have had no idea who he was until Roshi reveals it.
• This is also the first time a dead person is portrayed with a halo. This one-time visual would not appear again for another 2 years, when Goku is killed by Piccolo Jr.
• In the anime, Devil Man has a moment where he's overwhelmed by Goku's sheer presence. This idea would be used by the anime again when Goku has a rematch with King Chappa at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai.
• Devil Man makes some references to Hell in his original dialogue; the English dubs censor this out completely, even in Funimation's "Uncut" version.
• The title card for Episode 75 is the first time a title card has had animation in it, in this case the sparkles on the water.
• Gohan complimenting Goku on avoiding his Kamehameha is moved to inner monologue in Funimation's dub. Blue Water's dub corrected this.
• When Goku is waiting for Freeza to be resurrected at Baba's Palace in Dragon Ball Super, he recreates the moves he used when fighting Gohan in Episode 75.

Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and Dragon Ball logo provided, and trivia co-written, by KBABZ.

[Matches Malone]

I really wish Grandpa Gohan wasn't spoiled for me in one of the games as that surely would've been a shocking reveal. Although the first half of the arc slowed things down, everything starting with Korin's tower was really good, and it must've been a blast watching it weekly in Japan when it first aired.

[MasenkoHA]

• Speaking of anecdotal accounts about the dubs, the way the two known* English dubs censored the Bulma flash scene on TV has been described rather interestingly; in Funimation's TV dub, apparently they use stock footage of Roshi opening the can of beer from movie 2 and change dialogue to say Kuririn's strategy is to fetch a can of tomato soup from Roshi's house, and pour it all over Mr Invisible. Blue Water's dub apparently just cut the frames where you can see her boobs, but otherwise left the scene intact.
  However, no one seems to have footage of either of these to prove either anecdote, so take these both with a pinch of salt.

The tomato soup edit, I remember that being talked about as far back as when the episodes were still airing on Toonami. Back when the Toonami version was the default version most people had seen and the breast expose scene was the “elusive uncensored scene only people who bought the dvds knew about”

Here’s a forum in 2003 talking about the scene in question https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threa ... t.3520221/

[*]Devil Man makes some references to Hell in his original dialogue; the English dubs censor this out completely, even in Funimation's "Uncut” version.

In fact, I’m pretty sure it took until Kai for Funimation to finally use the word hell. Even in the Goku goes to hell episode in Z they refer to it as the place of no return and “down below”


As far as these episodes go I like that Yamucha is easily the sacrificial lamb to show how tough the opponent it is, but here it’s Kuririn and Yamucha gets to defeat at least one opponent.

The Devil’s Toilet was a cool battleground.

Devilman’s devilmite beam was an interesting technique . Kind of want to see how it would fare against far stronger opponents like Freeza or Dabra.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

• Speaking of anecdotal accounts about the dubs, the way the two known* English dubs censored the Bulma flash scene on TV has been described rather interestingly; in Funimation's TV dub, apparently they use stock footage of Roshi opening the can of beer from movie 2 and change dialogue to say Kuririn's strategy is to fetch a can of tomato soup from Roshi's house, and pour it all over Mr Invisible. Blue Water's dub apparently just cut the frames where you can see her boobs, but otherwise left the scene intact.
  However, no one seems to have footage of either of these to prove either anecdote, so take these both with a pinch of salt.

The tomato soup edit, I remember that being talked about as far back as when the episodes were still airing on Toonami. Back when the Toonami version was the default version most people had seen and the breast expose scene was the “elusive uncensored scene only people who bought the dvds knew about”

Here’s a forum in 2003 talking about the scene in question https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threa ... t.3520221/

[*]Devil Man makes some references to Hell in his original dialogue; the English dubs censor this out completely, even in Funimation's "Uncut” version.

In fact, I’m pretty sure it took until Kai for Funimation to finally use the word hell. Even in the Goku goes to hell episode in Z they refer to it as the place of no return and “down below”

Apparently the tomato thing was for the Toonami edit only, because i checked the uncut version on the Blue Bricks and there was no mention of it there.

[MasenkoHA]

Apparently the tomato thing was for the Toonami edit only, because i checked the uncut version on the Blue Bricks and there was no mention of it there.

well yeah....it was a visual edit with some altered dialog to match the visual edit. It would have no reason to be in a visually uncut version.....

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Apparently the tomato thing was for the Toonami edit only, because i checked the uncut version on the Blue Bricks and there was no mention of it there.

well yeah....it was a visual edit with some altered dialog to match the visual edit. It would have no reason to be in a visually uncut version.....

I figured that, obviously it wouldn't be though of course that isn't always the case as even the uncut version still has quite a few toned down bits dialogue wise to some degree like most of Roshi's pervy scenes and the pedo bit with Gen. Blue and Obotchaman in the one episode (although that one i get the change even when the visuals give the real intent away) but then again that goes with how FUNimation was circa 2001/2002 in terms of scripts and the like.

[Robo4900]

I figured that, obviously it wouldn't be though of course that isn't always the case as even the uncut version still has quite a few toned down bits dialogue wise to some degree like most of Roshi's pervy scenes and the pedo bit with Gen. Blue and Obotchaman in the one episode (although that one i get the change even when the visuals give the real intent away) but then again that goes with how FUNimation was circa 2001/2002 in terms of scripts and the like.

I think, in general, Funi's attitude at the time was to record an edited dub primarily, but record alternates in places where the edit required a visual change, or otherwise couldn't be worked around. But even in such cases, they often toned it down ("pafu-pafu" in episode 8 was toned down to just Roshi being excited at seeing Bulma's boobs, even though the edited dub cut the entire sequence).

The tomato soup edit, I remember that being talked about as far back as when the episodes were still airing on Toonami. Back when the Toonami version was the default version most people had seen and the breast expose scene was the “elusive uncensored scene only people who bought the dvds knew about”

Here’s a forum in 2003 talking about the scene in question https://animesuperhero.com/forums/threa ... t.3520221/

Ah! Thanks.
I just wish someone had a tape of it somewhere so we could actually see it!

(Though personally, I'd prefer seeing a tape of the Blue Water dub of this episode turn up )

In fact, I’m pretty sure it took until Kai for Funimation to finally use the word hell. Even in the Goku goes to hell episode in Z they refer to it as the place of no return and “down below”

Indeed. Even in GT, where there's a major plot point of Goku and Piccolo going to hell in the Super #17 arc, they don't say hell.

[MasenkoHA]

With all three dubs it seems Funimation’s primary concern was creating a broadcast friendly edit with the uncut version being secondary. Sometimes the uncut dub would use “harsher language” (like Vegeta saying friggin genius instead of absolute) but for the most part Funimation seemed intent on limiting how many alternate lines they would have to record. Dragon Ball’s dub obviously suffering the worse in that regard.

What’s weird is even the 2005 redub episodes of the first 67 Z episodes, the ones that were made specifically to be uncut and have no edited version are incredibly tame. Like I watched the dub version of Goku goes to hell not long ago and not once is the word hell ever uttered. Makes you wonder why Funimation bothered with the infamous “Home for Infinite Losers” if they were never going to say hell in their uncut version anyways.

[MasenkoHA]

Apparently the tomato thing was for the Toonami edit only, because i checked the uncut version on the Blue Bricks and there was no mention of it there.

well yeah....it was a visual edit with some altered dialog to match the visual edit. It would have no reason to be in a visually uncut version.....

I figured that, obviously it wouldn't be though of course that isn't always the case as even the uncut version still has quite a few toned down bits dialogue wise to some degree like most of Roshi's pervy scenes and the pedo bit with Gen. Blue and Obotchaman in the one episode (although that one i get the change even when the visuals give the real intent away) but then again that goes with how FUNimation was circa 2001/2002 in terms of scripts and the like.

The uncut version has toned down dialog when nothing in the scene itself appears risqué (“Why record two lines of dialog when we don’t have to?” mentality at play here) the Krillin exposes Bulma’s breast scene couldn’t simply be cut out so they had to apply visual censorship for the edited version and create alternate dialog to match the edit. It would make no sense to talk about tomato soup in the uncut version when no such thing was present.

It’s like the belly button/underwear thing in episode 3. It’s one of those times when Funimation had no choice but to create two versions. It wouldn’t make sense for Roshi to ask to see Bulma’s belly button when the visuals show her bare ass exposed and the follow up that Bulma discovers Goku removed her underwear.

“Bulma” goes wild scene in episode 8 that Robo mentioned was a good example of Funimation being able to use edited dialog for both versions since all they had to do was remove the scene of “Bulma” flashing Roshi and the scene still made sense.

[MyVisionity]

I remember seeing Bulma's bare breasts exposed in the uncensored Viz manga back then and wondering what they were gonna come up with for the Toonami version. The tomato soup thing was certainly interesting, as was the borrowed footage. I wonder if that was the greatest length that Funi ever had to go to for a tv edit.

This was an example of Roshi's perverted traits being utilized for the sake of the plot instead of just an empty gag.

Overall I think the Uranai Baba arc did a good job of showing how much Goku had grown as a fighter over the course of the Red Ribbon saga. I think having the fifth man be Son Gohan was a great choice that really makes it all worth it.

[Danfun64]

“Bulma” goes wild scene in episode 8 that Robo mentioned was a good example of Funimation being able to use edited dialog for both versions since all they had to do was remove the scene of “Bulma” flashing Roshi and the scene still made sense.

Actually, no. A lot of the dialogue is the same at first, but then it slowly changes until eventually being completely different (at least until the bit where Bulma hits Oolong)

(Funi edited, Toonami US. First dialogue that's different is at 1:29) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsjVV1SZUyI

(Funi uncut, Blue Bricks) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOI-fuA2cbE

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any clips of the BLT dub (which doubles down on the "Master Roshi only likes older women" nonsense) or the BW dub (where the footage appears to be fully aligned with the edited french dub, and before transitioning to Goku and Chi Chi ends with Roshi screaming at being told by Bulma!Oolong that he's a hunk)

To be honest the edited Funi dub seems dirtier than the uncut dub. It's no Puff-Puff, but the implication of those sound effects and that saxophone is... interesting.

edit: No wait, those are the sounds of kisses.

[MasenkoHA]

Actually, no. A lot of the dialogue is the same at first, but then it slowly changes until eventually being completely different (at least until the bit where Bulma hits Oolong

Huh, my mistake. My own personal mandela effect I guess. The uncut dialog was already incredibly tame so I assume it existed for an easy edit for the Toonami version.

Interesting that Funimation thought Oolong!Bulma saying Roshi is Incredibly sexy was too much. I seem to remember Buu asking a girl if he thinks she’s sexy being kept for Toonami but maybe because dub Buu is kind of hard to understand and he’s a fat pink blob not a teenage girl in a playboy bunny outfit that makes it okay?

Funimation also apparently thought Oolong!Bulma making the puff puff motions was too much even though the uncut dub just reframed the dialog so she’s suppose to be mimicking a heart beating.

There goes my theory Funimation created safe dialog for the uncut dub to save money. Turns out they were wusses and just made safe dialog for an uncut dub because nobody pointed out how futile it is to censor the dialog for a show where half the cast gawks at ass and tits anyways.


This whole time I thought Funimation was just lazy, when in reality they were just stupid.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any clips of the BLT dub (which doubles down on the "Master Roshi only likes older women" nonsense) or the BW dub (where the footage appears to be fully aligned with the edited french dub, and before transitioning to Goku and Chi Chi ends with Roshi screaming at being told by Bulma!Oolong that he's a hunk)

Can’t find the clip either but I know it amounts to Oolong!Bulma telling Roshi he should date her and him saying she’s too young.

[Robo4900]

This whole time I thought Funimation was just lazy, when in reality they were just stupid.

Quote of the year.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any clips of the BLT dub (which doubles down on the "Master Roshi only likes older women" nonsense) or the BW dub (where the footage appears to be fully aligned with the edited french dub, and before transitioning to Goku and Chi Chi ends with Roshi screaming at being told by Bulma!Oolong that he's a hunk)

Can’t find the clip either but I know it amounts to Oolong!Bulma telling Roshi he should date her and him saying she’s too young.

Here's the episode 8 clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7371HBe8sUw

... Not this dub's finest moment. They managed to skirt around the perversity here, and create a reasonably funny scene, but it just... Doesn't make any sense.

[KBABZ]

This whole time I thought Funimation was just lazy, when in reality they were just stupid.

Quote of the year.

That's not fair, it isn't even original!

[thejeremymenace]

[*]The title card for Episode 75 is the first time a title card has had animation in it, in this case the sparkles on the water.

Does #29 not count cause it's just a moving background?

[KBABZ]

[*]The title card for Episode 75 is the first time a title card has had animation in it, in this case the sparkles on the water.

Does #29 not count cause it's just a moving background?

29 is The Roaming Lake, which is a filler episode so I'm totally unfamiliar with it.

[MasenkoHA]

This whole time I thought Funimation was just lazy, when in reality they were just stupid.

Quote of the year.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any clips of the BLT dub (which doubles down on the "Master Roshi only likes older women" nonsense) or the BW dub (where the footage appears to be fully aligned with the edited french dub, and before transitioning to Goku and Chi Chi ends with Roshi screaming at being told by Bulma!Oolong that he's a hunk)

Can’t find the clip either but I know it amounts to Oolong!Bulma telling Roshi he should date her and him saying she’s too young.

Here's the episode 8 clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7371HBe8sUw

... Not this dub's finest moment. They managed to skirt around the perversity here, and create a reasonably funny scene, but it just... Doesn't make any sense.

To be fair the Japanese version is also kind of nonsense.

Oolong: I don’t want that old creep touching me!

Also Oolong: I’m gonna get back at Bulma by letting that old man bury his face in my chest while I pretend to be her


In that respect I do think Funimation’s version makes the most sense. “Bulma is gonna make me pretend to be her and go on a walk with this geezer? Well let’s see how she likes it when I hit on him as her and expose her breast to him” but it’s also like...wow that scene is already super tame minus the flashing part but no that’s Funimation’s too hot for tv dialog...

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Just realized something I forgot as I hadn't watched this since I was a kid. In Episode 75 of the Blue Water dub the narrator refers to Grandpa Gohan as Goku's "own flesh and blood". I'm not sure if this was in the French dub too, but it wasn't in the Japanese version so it seems like an odd thing to say when it was never implied, even before Z that Goku and Gohan were related by blood.

Either way it doesn't take away from the experience as the Blue Water voices are still much easier on the ear than the Funimation cast at this time.

[KBABZ]

Just realized something I forgot as I hadn't watched this since I was a kid. In Episode 75 of the Blue Water dub the narrator refers to Grandpa Gohan as Goku's "own flesh and blood". I'm not sure if this was in the French dub too, but it wasn't in the Japanese version so it seems like an odd thing to say when it was never implied, even before Z that Goku and Gohan were related by blood.

It also contradicts the opening lines of Episode 1, which make it clear that Gohan found Goku as a baby boy in the mountains.

[MasenkoHA]

Was the Blue Water dub working off French translations? I know the Canadian only opening was a really really awkward English translation of the already cheesy and saccharine French opening but I thought that was the extent of it? I was under the impression they working off a combination of Funimation’s scripts and direct translations from the Japanese scripts.