Asking Takao Koyama

[DBZ Expert]

I had a brief conversation with Takao Koyama and he seems to be really a Broli fanboy..

[Matches Malone]

This makes sense, as Broly completely destroyed both FpSsj Goku and Ssj Gohan, both of whom were able to stand up to Cell.

[Grimlock]

If it's that easy to talk and ask questions, someone should ask him about Janemba, the real strongest movie enemy (until Freeza randomly came up). What he thinks about his power and such.

[Yuli Ban]

If it's that easy to talk and ask questions, someone should ask him about Janemba, the real strongest movie enemy (until Freeza randomly came up). What he thinks about his power and such.

We could, BUT I doubt he'd appreciate suddenly be swarmed with questions

[Grimlock]

Indeed. Which is why people shouldn't really bother with Broly. I only have a couple of questions regarding Janemba and that's about it. But I don't really mean to just go to him and ask them, especially now that people are swarming him with questions (about Broly to make things worse).

[VegettoEX]

Please do not bother industry professionals on social media with unprompted and unsolicited strength debate questions. Good lord.

[DBZ Expert]

This makes sense, as Broly completely destroyed both FpSsj Goku and Ssj Gohan, both of whom were able to stand up to Cell.

Movie 8 Goku and Gohan are based on their initial post rosat states. They are weaker than Grade 3 Trunks

If it's that easy to talk and ask questions, someone should ask him about Janemba, the real strongest movie enemy (until Freeza randomly came up). What he thinks about his power and such.

But Hirudegarn is stronger than Janemba

[Matches Malone]

Movie 8 Goku and Gohan are based on their initial post rosat states. They are weaker than Grade 3 Trunks

Initial ? they only trained in the room one time. The minute they came out everyone talked about how much stronger they were than everyone.

[theherodjl]

I'm sorry...but is this for real? Did someone here at Kanzenshuu actually visit Takao Koyama's social media account and message him into reiterating something that he stated in a prior interview? And then post it on the forum, calling him a "Broly fanboy" in an implied-mocking tone?
This is the kind of shit that creates the impression of fandom having nothing better to do in their lives than take a fictional franchise way too seriously. This is borderline harassment and is just off-putting.

[Locust]

This is the second time within the last few weeks that I've seen someone reach out to him specifically about Broly - I really hope this doesn't become a trend of people bugging him

[Koitsukai]

From what I see from Koyama's replies, he seems more than ok to answer people's question and also far from the type of attention that might drive a man mad.

If I had the chance I would like to ask Koyama about Hirudegarn and his weird oscilating power, if he was also the writer of that character of course.

Movie 8 Goku and Gohan are based on their initial post rosat states. They are weaker than Grade 3 Trunks

Initial ? they only trained in the room one time. The minute they came out everyone talked about how much stronger they were than everyone.

They were not using their FPSS forms, Gohan is not even remarkable, so it is implied it's a version of them from before the ROSAT experience. Considering several situations from M8, we could safely infer that it's happening in an alternate universe/timeline where Cell never reached perfection and the Son family never mastered the form.

[Kaboom]

What exactly is this supposed to change or prove, anyway? We've already known for years that Koyama is his own creation's biggest fanboy, and has a hard time envisioning any other foe as stronger than Broli. Even though he helped create two such stronger foes in Janemba and Hirudegarn.

[JulieYBM]

I mean...why bother him for something like that? I'd rather know why it is he stopped writing scripts for the TV series or how fast he is as a writer, since he rarely ever did consecutive episodes but would usually pull out a 2-3 episode movie script.

[Grimlock]

But Hirudegarn is stronger than Janemba

Not at all. Janemba defeated Super Saiyan 3 Goku, while Super Saiyan 3 Goku was able to defeat Hirudegarn in the end. That and other things.

[theherodjl]

But Hirudegarn is stronger than Janemba

Not at all. Janemba defeated Super Saiyan 3 Goku, while Super Saiyan 3 Goku was able to defeat Hirudegarn in the end. That and other things.

Such as Toei's old filmsite stating that Janemba was more powerful than Hirudegarn.

The phantom majin Hildegarn is a formidable opponent capable of trading blows evenly with even Super Saiyan 3 Goku, but since Janenba from the previous work "The Rebirth of Fusion!! Goku and Vegeta" could beat back Super Saiyan 3 Goku, strength-wise this makes him No.2 out of the movie series enemies.

[Koitsukai]

But Hirudegarn is stronger than Janemba

Not at all. Janemba defeated Super Saiyan 3 Goku, while Super Saiyan 3 Goku was able to defeat Hirudegarn in the end. That and other things.

Such as Toei's old filmsite stating that Janemba was more powerful than Hirudegarn.

The phantom majin Hildegarn is a formidable opponent capable of trading blows evenly with even Super Saiyan 3 Goku, but since Janenba from the previous work "The Rebirth of Fusion!! Goku and Vegeta" could beat back Super Saiyan 3 Goku, strength-wise this makes him No.2 out of the movie series enemies.

The problem with that movie(Hirudegan's) is how he can wipe out every character that is stronger than SS3 Goku except for SS3 Goku. I can accept SS3 Goku is now the strongest of the Z warriors, leaving behind Gotenks and Gohan but then that would make Hirudegan the strongest

[Yuli Ban]

But Hirudegarn is stronger than Janemba

Not at all. Janemba defeated Super Saiyan 3 Goku, while Super Saiyan 3 Goku was able to defeat Hirudegarn in the end. That and other things.

That means nothing in a series all about growth; Super Saiyan 3 Goku in movie 13 may be much stronger than he was in movie 12. Perhaps like the difference between Super Saiyan Goku in movie 8 vs movie 5.

That's probably not the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. This isn't really a show where characters get weaker over time... barring one exception.

[SSJgogeto]

Besides that, Hirudegarn defeated SS3 Gotenks, who is stronger than SS3 Goku.

Anyway, that's probably the first time I see someone talking with a screenwriter about how strong a character is, or at least with a japanese screenwriter. I wonder what Mr. Koyama thinks about the new Broly.

[Grimlock]

That means nothing in a series all about growth; Super Saiyan 3 Goku in movie 13 may be much stronger than he was in movie 12. Perhaps like the difference between Super Saiyan Goku in movie 8 vs movie 5.

It means everything, actually. That's what we call "feats". As for time placement, well, it depends if you think that a Goku from after Majin Buu saga is stronger than Goku after his fight against Majin Vegeta. I think there is a difference between them, but not that much. Certainly not the same difference between Movie 5 Goku and Movie 8 Goku.

As for feats, like people say, Hirudegarn's power seems to fluctuate a lot. He manages to defeat Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan but loses to Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Clearly the problem is Movie 13's writing. If Hirudegarn must be killed by Goku, then he should be able put up a fight against the other two. That would still make him below Janemba.

And then there is Toei's statement that theherodjl posted, which may evidence that Toei thinks the same at the end of the day.

[LoganForkHands73]

To be fair, we know that certain techniques can be radically more powerful than the characters who wield them, i.e. Makankosappo. Considering how front-and-centre the mighty Dragon Fist/Ryuken is in the marketing materials, I like to think it was mainly it that won the day against Hirudegarn. It's meant to be Goku's ultimate (and only original) technique after all. Obviously not an excuse for pretty poor writing, I mean the technique has literally -1% foreshadowing or explanation, but it's what I came up with.

Either that, or the movies were already catching onto the Super era plot point that Gohan and the others were slacking on training and got weaker in spite of their transformations? Eh.