Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
1. Why SSJ Full Power was stronger for Goku and Gohan in the Cell Games than SSJ Grade 2, and it's still the same thing as SSJ1?
2. Why SSJ Grade 2 became obsolete for Vegeta in Buu arc, and still was such a boost for him in the Androids arc?
3. Why we didn't see Kaioken being used after Namekusei arc?
Spoiler:
For this argument I'm not considering Anime, GT or Super. I'm assuming just the original manga as canon.
The quickest, more probable, but incoherent answer for all those questions is: because convenience.
But I have a more complex answer that I believe to make more sense.
Spoiler:
On Namekusei, Goku reached the peak of his power and became the Super Saiyajin. Still, five years later the androids appeared with even more power. When Goku awoke from his heart condition, he took on the task to surpass the SSJ. Vegeta did it too. But both of them pursued this goal in two different paths.
The Hard Way
Spoiler:
After knowing that Piccolo, Cell, Nº17 and Nº18 were stronger than him, he pondered for three days how to surpass the SSJ. Vegeta had seen Goku multiplying his power more than once - first, when they fought when he invaded Earth, and then in Namekusei. So, he believed that combining that power with the SSJ transformation was the path to achieve a stronger stage.
Spoiler:
(Note: In Dragon Ball, genius fighters were able to learn techniques just by seeing them. Goku and Tenshinhan, for example, learned the Kame Hame Ha by seeing them once. So, it's perfectly possible for Vegeta to have learned Kaio-Ken after thinking about it in those 3 days.
Also, besides Goku, Piccolo and Tenshinhan were also capable of using the Kaioken at that point, as I explained in this post. Goku used Kaioken x10 without pronoucing the technique's name and without any visible red aura. I think that, after the Namekusei arc, Kaioken just became a core resource for Goku, Piccolo an Tenshinhan to manipulate their own power. Kaioken was trivialized, as Bukujutsu and Zanzoken also were after the 23rd Budokai arc.)
We know that Kaioken's limitation is its user's own body. To handle Kaioken x10, Goku needed an insane training in G-100, refilled with Senzu Beans. But to handle Kaioken over a Super Saiyajin transformation it would be required a much harsher training. And Vegeta followed this way.
After training in the Room of Spirit and Time, Vegeta was able to apply a lower multiplier Kaioken over the Super Saiyajin transformation. And that would be Super Saiyajin Grade 2. (I believe it would be Kaioken x2 for Grade 2 and something like Kaioken x4 for Grade 3).
Spoiler:
Vegeta's muscles expanding in SSJ Grade 2 is just the same effect Goku had while using Kaioken x3 or x4 in the Saiyajin arc.
The Easy Way
Spoiler:
Goku took a shortcut. He knew that the SSJ's energy was much less agressive to his body than Kaioken's. In his fight against Freeza, his body handled fine the SSJ transformation (x50 multiplier), while Kaioken x20 destroyed his muscles.
So, he transformed into SSJ and simply reduced its energy to a x10 ~ x15 multiplier. And stayed in that form for a year in the Room of Spirit of Time. This way, his body easily suited an energy of x10 ~ x15 multiplier in its base form. So, Goku would apply a higher modifier of Kaioken, and then he would transform himself into SSJ. His muscles wouldn't stress like in Vegeta's SSJ grade 2, even thought he was using a much higher energy.
Vegeta never took this shortcut. In the subsequent 7 years, he just struggled in G-400, until he finnaly reached the power Goku already had in Cell Games (Kaioken x15 over SSJ). But at that point, Goku already could apply Kaioken x20 (I believe this would be maximum Kaioken) over SSJ. That's why Vegeta took another shortcut after learned the power up Babidi granted for Spopovich. As Majin Vegeta, he now would also be able to apply x20 Kaioken over SSJ, catching up Goku. Now, this quote makes much more sense, doesn't it?
Spoiler:
"I trained harder than you, but you're a more gifted fighter than I am. I could never diminish the difference between us."
Last edited by KarinSSJ on Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I don’t think this happens because Goku seems to be more gifted than Vegeta, no.
It’s probably because Goku thinks about how to make more efficient gains with less effort, something that Vegeta often overlooks. Goku tries to make the best balance out of the situation, which for me is a better reason to justify why he dropped kaioken. Perhaps it would be a huge power-up, but with too much drawbacks.
Besides, Goku is more sensible when to use new forms. He makes tests and is patient to figure out the results. SS3 for example was a form he admitted was a work-in-progress, so he didn’t want to count on it. Sometimes this works, sometimes not. Vegeta in another hand tends to reveal his trump card too soon, and in most situations he fails.
Another point is that Goku is very receptive with advices, Vegeta is a little stubborn and difficult to teach. It’s not too hard to imagine Goku asking for a old master of him to help him with training or looking for a sparring partner.
So, you can cite a few factors that might explain these questions. Goku cares about balance, he is patient, he tests, and accepts help.
