In your mind perhaps, but I don't think all modellers in the world agree on that, as well, many different developers still employ different ways of doing that.
Most major companies (Capcom, SEGA, Konami, EA, etc) do modeling the way I'm talking about, where as most small companies (Dimps, Spike!, etc, etc) do it lets say the "cliche" way as the method as been overdone to death and is no longer needed in this day and age.
And news flash for you, this is because the smaller companies have to do stuff quicker and cheaper. Like the fact they have to make a DBZ game in less then a year, but of course we all know that the faster cheaper method always produces the best end result right? Well according to you anyway.
And I'll applaud those that do still make their new characters from the ground up, there is more "love" in them, so to speak.
It's the faster-cheaper way to do it, so I don't understand how you could think they put more love (or time) into.
What you're basicly saying is that the 2D direct to video sequels Disney does take more time, effort, etc, then the stuff Pixar does. Now you might say "well you're putting words in my mouth" but no that is actually almost an exact analogy to what is being talked about here. One is drawn from the gound up every time very quickly and very cheaply while the other is a quite lengthier, more expensive, etc, process that in the end produces a better end result, which I think is a universal thing everyone can agree upon in the end.
The thing here with you is you're just used to something specific and don't want to see it change. It has nothing to do with which is better, yet you act like it is better despite all the evidence or facts that stack against it.
Also know that there's a diffrience between "opinion" and just being flat out wrong, so don't try to hide everything behind "my opinion" or whatever.
It's the difference between a custom made car and a factory line car.
No it isn't, or rather you have it backwards, as the method you're talking about is the "mass" method as its been overdone/overused to death by this point with video games, while the method I'm describing is the more custom method, as you're tooling it to specifics rather then the norm/standard.
And there too, you'll find car fans who like one or the other more. Doesn't mean either method is "better" though.
So you're saying people would prefer a car they can/could do nothing with compared to one they can do anything they want with?
I seriously doubt anybody is going to take the "default" over the "custom" like even if I just wanted the standard/default, why wouldn't I just get the custom that starts out as default? That way I have the option of changing it rather then having something that is always the exact same.
Because all three succesfully replicate the DBZ style in different ways?
No they don't.
There's really only two main styles when it comes to DBZ. There's TOEI's style (the hard edged straight lines) and the Toriyama/Manga style (the curvey thin lined stuff) while the Sparking style is a fan-art style, which believe it or not is NOT replicating "the" DBZ style(s)
Now you could counter this by explaining to me why the Sparking models have longer legs then they should, or why Goku's bicep in that Sparking pic at the top is so screwed up. Not to mention I'd hardly refer to Sparking's intro models as successful recreations either, and know that the intro models while diffrient are proportioned the exact same way as the in game models.
Even you have to admit that they're all clearly and accurately Son Goku.
Aside from the really screwed up anatomy in the Sparking model(s)
I know the Toriyama/TOEI anatomy ain't exactly accurate to the actual human anatomy but it's specific, and a specific that the Sparking models don't capture, well not as well as Budokai and Super do.
This also goes along with the fact that people are so blindly biased to the Sparking games that they become blind to its obvious problems and/or limitations.
Oh I did, but I still don't think it'll work. Again, for example Tenshinhan and Vegeta do have differently shaped chests, and more specifically shoulders and arms
Note I just listed basicly all the humanoid type bodies in a row. I know that specific parts have to be made, especialy for aliens, and that might also come into effect with certain humans/saiyans too, thus you'd have to create specific parts for them too, but even if that was the case it still produce a better end result, as you could do things a lot more proper or specific in pieces then you can as a whole.
"Almost... but not quite" effect.
You do relize that by the end of Z, in GT, and in all the games now all bodies are done basicly the exact same way? Like the way they're drawn and proportioned?
It's not really any diffrient then...
...they all have the same muscular structure just reshaped.
On top of that, in a DBZ game it's pretty futile to use prefabs anyway as they wouldn't carry you very far, with characters like Majin Buu, Cell and Freeza and their vastly different transformations you'd still have plenty of original modelling to do anyway.
Yeah I know, but in the end you'd be producing a better end result.
Like imagine if a DBZ game had the time and budget something like Resident Evil 4 had. Something that cost millions of dollars to make and spent multiple years in development (and is now considered to be one of the greatest games ever made) rather then doing a game in less then a year that probaly doesn't even cost a million. Which would you rather have?
Its like I could have/get the game I/fans have been waiting for, for years, or I could just keep spending $50 (or whatever) on the samething year after year which in the end isn't even worth $50.
That means you wouldn't? That is lazy game designing in my opinion, a good game keeps up with technology and redoes the models even in a running fighting game series. (Heck, the models were remade time and time again between each Budokai)
Omg you really have no clue what you're talking about.
Using my method you can keep adding polys to the existing models over time, and make a new graphics engine every once and awhile while still keeping the same technical data.
Perfect example of this is Smash Brothers, and most people don't even relize it.
Smash Brothers, SB Melee, and SB Brawl, all run on the same core engine SUPRISE. When Nintendo started developing Melee, they didn't just dump the original game entirely, instead they just built upon what was there, adding more polys, better textures, etc, and this is the way you really should do things with a series a games, because the alternative would be recoding every single move, animation, etc, when the coding already exists within the first game.
Its like
OMG they were actually smart and knew/know how to exactly and properly reuse data without wasting money redoing the samething they did before? Man thats like super genius, how could anybody possibly think of that kind of stuff?
(Heck, the models were remade time and time again between each Budokai)
Uhm no they weren't.
The character models you see in B3 are the EXACT same models you see in B1. The only diffrience is they cel-shaded over the rubbery looking B1 textures (Jet Grind Radio did the samething during its production if you compare the early screens of it to the final game) I mean they might of added a few polys to some chars, but they never ditched the models entirely, though they did for whatever idiot reason remove Zarbon and Dadoria from B2 and B3, even though they already existed within the data/engine and there's actually a lot of stuff that existed in the Budokai engine that never made it into playable form.
And this is another example of what I'm talking about. They didn't just trash everything for the better, they instead took what they had and made it better, though if you want to get technical they didn't use the Budokai engine to its fullest potential given everything they left out in playable format.
Shenmue took seven years and look how that paid off.
Some people liked it, others didn't. I myself liked it, and I probaly even like it more so now when I look back at it because
1) It's a free roaming game that isn't a GTA clone.
2) The "backround" NPCs weren't just the same model reproduced a 100 times but rather each one was a specific individual with their own path, story, etc.
3) It had a fairly indepth combat system.
and a number of other great features that I won't go into.
Infact in today's market its a nice change of pace from the games of now as it's not something thats been done to death in terms of gameplay and presentation.
I first and foremost want the game to look, play, sound and feel right. Not have it done in record time to cash in yet again on the gullible EA loving crowd.
Yet the DBZ games of today are done exactly the way EA handles games. Produced very cheaply, made in less then a year, passable graphics, etc, etc, and while I'm bringing up an example or examples of a better way to handle certain things that would be more expensive, take longer to do, produce better end results, etc, you resist it.
Despite what you say, you're contradictive to your own views, ie you say stuff like the "gullible EA crowd" yet you totaly support the DBZ games that are pushed out in the exact same fashion as EA games.
Games can be art if you ask me, and you put time into art if you want it to be actually art.
Yeah, like Okami, but I don't see anyone even attempting to do a DBZ game with that type of passion do you? And while I want to see that for DBZ you keep struggling against one of the very principal features or design elements that can get it there.
Certainly beats the feeling that I'm playing a mod or patched version of the previous game.
On top of that, I don't think the Budokai engine could've worked for Sparking!, the Budokai engine was designed to show limited amounts of scenery in controlled close combat environments. In Sparking! the areas are much larger and offer much more interactivity (and slightly less scripted) with the scenery. So keeping that in mind the Budokai engine would've probably lagged and struggled to render the larger and shinier areas.
The Budokai engine would've been fine in large open enviorments and/or whatever else.
When you look at the maximum the PS2 can achieve Budokai realisticly is crappy, and I don't know you even play other games, but stuff like Resident Evil 4, Final Fantasy XII, Jak 3, God of War, etc, etc, have far better graphics and far larger areas with shorter loading times then any of the recent DBZ games, but wait how'd they pull that off? Because going by what you're saying all those games should lag like crap. Oh wait now I know/remember its because there are better ways to produce video games, rather then just using the standard or traditional ways of doing video games, and suprise suprise its always those games that do it diffrient that make the biggest impact on the market or players.
(and those ex-Capcom chaps making their own engine for the lovely manga-styled Chou Dragonball Z)
Okay this is something that annoys me, but maybe if I bold it people will remember it better.
Super DBZ had like a total of like 3 ex-Capcom members working on it, and everyone says "what DBZ would be done like if done by Capcom" in sense, yet I guess the 20 or so ex-Capcom employees that worked on the Budokai games is meaningless? Yeah that's right kiddies, Dimps the developers of the Budokai games are mostly made up of ex-Capcom employees, and the Dimps staff members that weren't from Capcom came mostly from Sammy/Arc-Systems who were responsible for the Guilty Gear games. So I wonder which of the series out there is really the most "Capcom" like when you consider all the facts?
Oh and lets not forget that back in 1999/2000 Capcom made the Power Stone fighting games, two games which contained a DBZ tribute character (Wang Tang) who basicly showed off how well a DBZ game could work in free-roam style gameplay with multiple opponents.
Yeah thats right Spike! believe it or not it is possible to have fights that aren't just one on one, especialy when you're using a free-roam style game, or did you guys just think that a DBZ fighting game where you could fight multiple opponents at the sametime was actually an impossible feat that something with the magnitude of Sparking series (which is designed to be big and grand) couldn't handle.
^And that's another example of what I'm talking about. Developers often times overlook the simplest of features, like
hey now that we have a free-roam gameplay engine we could/can actually have fights that aren't just one on one the entire time like every other DBZ fighter out there, but no, we can't think of any thing that complex, cause you know every fight in the series and movies was one on one wasn't it?
Plus, fans expect for each new game to look better than the previous, even if they aren't related, or to at least have something unique. So again, all the more reason to properly remake the models from scratch.
The thing is that they can make the models look better and diffrient and Smash Brothers is a perfect example when using the same models.
As for them doing something diffrient, if they can't even come up with something like a 2 Vs 1 fight with a free roam fight engine, we're in trouble.
Also in the overall scheme of things (being diffrient and what not) what has Budokai, Sparking, or Super done that a fighting game before it hasn't done?
Ah, but still the models get redone even if it runs on an evolved engine of the previous games in order so that they still look up to date.
No, get it through your head that they do NOT get redone, they get UPDATED.
Redone would be as if they were remaking them entirely from scratch, which is an idiotic way of going about it.
The DBZ games have been in the hands of many developers over the years so it makes less sense to do that.
But the thing is that they shouldn't be changing hands has much as they are.
Any time a developer gets close to perfecting their engine or coming close to making something really good, another company takes over.
I said this before but Dimps hated the way they had to keep doing games in a "less then a year" time frame with little money to do it, and they stopped because they didn't feel they were producing the best result in this fashion.
The director of the series said once that he and others at Dimps (after finishing B3) thought of B2 as an upgrade to B1 and that B3 was really more the "full on sequel" that B1 deserved or that they (Dimps) wanted to put out.
DoA is the most popular fighter these days?
Its funny since I didn't say anything close to that, but if you want to go into what I said then...
1) Name me another famous/popular fighting franchise that designs character models the way DOA does, because Soul Calibur doesn't, Tekken doesn't, Virtua Fighter doesn't, KOF Maximum Impact doesn't, etc.
2) Name me another fighting game that people credit more for the "break away/through enviorments" over DOA.
3) Point out exactly where I specifcly say/said DOA is the most popular fighter these days, rather then "most famous example of this"
...so get to it.
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Why are we debating over someone's opinion about how Dragon Ball Z video game lego-blocked character models supposedly "should" be made? I mean, sheesh guys..
Well he's just being an ignorant/stubborn about all of it.
Of course you bring up the point of why he'd even start an aurguement about it, but then when you look at the type of stuff he's posted, its not such a suprise (just note the last example with DOA where somehow he managed to read "DOA is the most popular fighting game ever" when there's nothing of the sort in the quote he's responding to. Real man of genius there)
Those don't look anatomically correct in my opinion, not by a longshot, by stretching or compressing models you screw up the proportions, or the general look and it just won't look right.
