Were the other universes too underpowered?

[Peach]

At the end of Battle of Gods, Beerus mentioned other universes. And it opened the door to the possibilities of characters stronger than Goku and Beerus.

We get to the new universe in the universe 6 saga and ....most of them are pretty weak. Botamo is a joke, Super Saiyan eclipses Frost & Cabba, and Vegeta limits himself to Super Saiyan against Magetta (instead of one shotting him) to challenge himself. Hit is the only real challenge.

I thought for sure there would be a lot of people on Goku's level in the Tournament of Power, but we come to find out that only Jiren, Toppo, Kale, and one or two fusions are on his level.


The multiverse was a perfect opportunity to have Goku fight tons of warriors in his league and beyond him, and challenge him like the old days. Doesn't it annoy any of you that they made the multiverse so weak?

[Jiren The Alpha]

We still have 4 other universes to see and the universes in the TOP did not have a lot of time to find strong fighters so they still is a chance that we haven't seen the REALLY strong fighters in the multiverses. But the TOP did remind me of early Dragon Ball were Goku was beating everybody in the beginning.

[Skar]

I think it made sense based on U7. We know 99.9% of the universe is weaker than Freeza's elites and only a handful of characters throughout DBZ were above first form Freeza. Even fewer characters than that reached SSJG level. Gods of Destruction might have such a long lifespan since it takes millions if years for a strong enough race to emerge and became a candidate.

[Zephyr]

Nah. I feel like Hit, Zamasu, and Geran were plenty sufficient to deliver on Beerus' 'promise'.

[Koitsukai]

It makes sense to me. Goku-tachi are freaks of nature, they are outliers... and that's Z I'm talking about. When you factor in the God forms, the chances of those creatures existing in every universe are even slimmer.

Dudes that can be considered to be on hakaishin level shouldn't be abundant. Maybe there should have been Namek Freeza level characters from other universes, and there were in U6 and U11, much stronger actually. Perhaps Buu-like creatures should exist in every universe, but they were either killed or are too evil to control, or simply don't exist. Doesn't matter, they would still be fodder to our guys.


We still have 4 universes to check out. After witnessing the ToP, I feel the GoDs and kaios might try and get their greatest assets to be on that god level as well.

[Tian]

The multiverse was a perfect opportunity to have Goku fight tons of warriors in his league and beyond him, and challenge him like the old days. Doesn't it annoy any of you that they made the multiverse so weak?

Kinda. It was like the gods have chosen most of their fighters based on their special abilities rather than their actual fighting skills.

[Thani]

It was a wasted opportunity, yeah. Classic Toriyama shooting his own feet. There is a really good video about this, actually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwVuC3 ... ueOfGripes

[Nistarkail]

Well, effectively we don't know how characters from other universes can be weak or not.

Surely, if the average warrior is Piccolo (at the time of ToP), I really doubt that the 70-75% of the other participants can barely compete. I'm not speaking about Saiyans like Cabba or Caulifla, Toppo, Dypso, but cameos like Prum, Kakunsa, Paparoni or Dr. Rota whose power level could probably between 100 and 200.000 at maximum.

I think that most of the warriors who took part in the big fight can be considered a threat between the top fighters of the 21-23nd Budokai Tenkaichi (between 100-330) and Frieza's soldiers (between 2.000 and 120.000 or slightly more).

So, if Toyotaro-Toriyama had the decency to put an official list about strength ranking or avoid to delete Tien or Kurinin from the tournament so easily, maybe this question should be answered correctly.

[BWri]

"Were the other universes too underpowered?"
One word: Yes.

At the end of Battle of Gods, Beerus mentioned other universes. And it opened the door to the possibilities of characters stronger than Goku and Beerus.

We get to the new universe in the universe 6 saga and ....most of them are pretty weak. Botamo is a joke, Super Saiyan eclipses Frost & Cabba, and Vegeta limits himself to Super Saiyan against Magetta (instead of one shotting him) to challenge himself. Hit is the only real challenge.

I think with characters like Cabba and Frost, there was great potential for a reverse power build. Those two in particular started off fairly strong, though not in the realm of gods like Hit, Vegeta, or Goku. All they needed were the transformations that characters like Frieza, Goku, and Vegeta got and so I thought they'd perhaps do some training off screen. They did train, but no where near what was needed to be relevant to the main fighters.

I thought for sure there would be a lot of people on Goku's level in the Tournament of Power, but we come to find out that only Jiren, Toppo, Kale, and one or two fusions are on his level.


The multiverse was a perfect opportunity to have Goku fight tons of warriors in his league and beyond him, and challenge him like the old days. Doesn't it annoy any of you that they made the multiverse so weak?

All things considered, I don't mind how the ToP came out. Relative to universal standards, most of the ToP fighters were at least Android arc to Buu arc level or higher in the anime. Not sure about the manga since most were pure fodder. Don't get me wrong though, I wanted more overall stronger fighters anyway, even from universe 7 which is why I'd like a big training arc pre-ToP (one that's more than 2 days).

I guess it would be too obvious for many of the other universes to be stronger than U7, so we got something of a subversion of normal combat manga tropes. The anime plays better with the concept since many universes had some nuclear option, underhanded tactic or cheat to ensure they survived. I would have liked to see them all exercise that option.

[Jiren The Alpha]

It was a wasted opportunity, yeah. Classic Toriyama shooting his own feet. There is a really good video about this, actually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwVuC3 ... ueOfGripes

Isn't that the guy that said that "Himawari is a cute girl of suspect age" and "everyone that has dead parents and wanted attention (in fiction) is a Naruto"?

[ankokudaishogun]

from what we have seen in the anime(the manga doesn't show much), most of the contestants were at least Namek Freeza-class, with their top fighters being about Cell-class

which is A LOT. Plus, those not in that level of fighting class usually had various tricks or more-or-less unorthodox ways to gain the upper hand.


Basically, it was U7, U6 and U11 that were so overpowered it was ridiculous thanks having MULTIPLE God-class or at least SS3-class warriors

[Magnificent Ponta]

I think it made sense based on U7. We know 99.9% of the universe is weaker than Freeza's elites and only a handful of characters throughout DBZ were above first form Freeza. Even fewer characters than that reached SSJG level. Gods of Destruction might have such a long lifespan since it takes millions if years for a strong enough race to emerge and became a candidate.

Basically, it was U7, U6 and U11 that were so overpowered it was ridiculous thanks having MULTIPLE God-class or at least SS3-class warriors

Exactly right.

When one bears in mind that if they'd held the Tournament just 2 decades prior, the only member of the Universe 7 Team who would've still made the cut would've been Freeza (and Dabura would've been the MVP, or maybe magic-less Moro or Majin Buu if they'd been resourceful and desperate enough to retrieve them from their respective confinements in time), that just shows up the fact that the relative standing of all the 'also-ran' Universes simply makes sense.

The Big 3 are just absurd, and mostly thanks to some pretty recent developments in the scheme of things (I think Hit is the only real exception to that, so far as we know).

[Skar]

When one bears in mind that if they'd held the Tournament just 2 decades prior, the only member of the Universe 7 Team who would've still made the cut would've been Freeza (and Dabura would've been the MVP, or maybe magic-less Moro or Majin Buu if they'd been resourceful and desperate enough to retrieve them from their respective confinements in time), that just shows up the fact that the relative standing of all the 'also-ran' Universes simply makes sense.

That's a good point! It makes me wonder what the rest of the U7 team would've been like if tournament was somehow held back then.

1. Old Moro
2. Fat Buu
3. Dabura
4. Freeza
5. King Cold
6. Captain Ginyu

The last four would probably be the remaining Ginyu Force members or swapping one of them out for Yakon. The other universe contestants might be a little different depending on how old they were. Hit is over 1000 years old so he would still be the strongest in U7. Jiren is implied to be really old since him and his master knew Belmod before he became GoD (in the manga at least).

[ankokudaishogun]

The Big 3 are just absurd, and mostly thanks to some pretty recent developments in the scheme of things (I think Hit is the only real exception to that, so far as we know).

we don't know how old are Toppo, Dyspo and Jiren.

But Toppo being selected for training as next GoD suggests his strenght wasn't something as recent as the Saiyan's

[LoganForkHands73]

I wouldn't have minded seeing more ace-in-the-hole champions for each universe, but looking back, most universes were very impressive by any reasonable standards. Universe 3's technology was so advanced that they developed tin-can robots far stronger than almost everyone in the original series, plus a merged monster that could take on all of Universe 7's heavyhitters at once. Universe 4 had a microscopic fighter who could beat up Piccolo with the element of surprise. Even Universe 10 had a stay-at-home dad whose strength rivalled Gohan's. Any of these guys would've made Perfect Cell look puny if they'd shown up earlier.

I like to believe that most of the universes have stronger warriors that couldn't be recruited in time. Buu and Moro can't be the only eldritch horrors lying in wait out there...

[kyppk]

For the anime, yes.

The fact that most fighters seemed to go after U7 in an endless onslaught only to be eliminated one after another with U7 eventually scoring 53/79 or 68% of the total ring outs (this isn't even counting times U7 members knock each other out or themselves) really signals that Jiren, Kale, Top, Hit, and maybe the big monster from U3 are the only real contenders that stand a legitimate chance.

U11 only loses because Jiren doesn't just doesn't do anything in the beginning and fools around with Goku for way to long. So, outside of them every other universe either comes across as staggeringly weak since they can't really rival U7 or incompetent because they might have fighters that do and can't get them for one reason or another.

The manga seems slightly better since we only see U7 knock out something like 22/79 of the fighters, so there's some plausible discussion that the universes as a whole were more evenly matched, but obviously on an individual scale they were still completely outclassed by the like of Goku, Jiren, Vegeta etc.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If anything I'd think they were overpowered. Goku and Vegeta trained and became gods and all these scrubs were at least comparable to their base levels. Jiren, Toppo and maybe Hit were the only ones who had any right to be so powerful.

[ZombieVito]

If anything I'd think they were overpowered. Goku and Vegeta trained and became gods and all these scrubs were at least comparable to their base levels. Jiren, Toppo and maybe Hit were the only ones who had any right to be so powerful.

Exactly.

Base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan are very powerful and yet a lot of fighters gave them trouble in that form. Cell and the lower forms of Boo wouldn't stand a chance against them.

[ankokudaishogun]

it's quite obvious that in the manga the base forms are not God-class at all.

in the anime is harder to tell, mostly because the different writers went back and forth with portrayal them as God-class in base or "Normal"

[ZombieVito]

it's quite obvious that in the manga the base forms are not God-class at all.

in the anime is harder to tell, mostly because the different writers went back and forth with portrayal them as God-class in base or "Normal"

They aren't god tier but are strong enough to completely outclass SS3 Gotenks.

In the manga they are strong enough to withstand the roar from that GoD while all Kaioshins couldn't so they are multiple times stronger than their Boo arc selfs.