It's not just transformations, my guy. Since the first chapter of Dragonball, Toriyama had the childlike, unassuming Goku beating the shit out of scary monsters that should be way stronger than him based on their appearance.Skar wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:01 pm Well he wasn't too far off since a version of Broly ended up being close to Beerus' power. I'm pretty sure Toriyama did design the original LSSJ Broly though. This treated as Toriyama's usual style now but it wasn't that common in the original series. I think that's why it was a subversion because it didn't happen that often.
Freeza came as a surprise since he was getting more monstrous in each transformation until his final form. Before him only villains with transformations were Oozaru Vegeta and monster Zarbon. Cell was becoming more human like after absorbing each cyborg but still intimidating. Fat Buu was unexpected that the ancient demon feared by the highest gods was a pink fat blob but stronger versions like South Kaioshin absorbed and Super Buu were still scarier looking and muscular.
When it comes to villains, he had the neatly-dressed, calm and subdued Tao Paipai kill the much more muscular General Blue with just his tongue. Spike the Devilman was built up as the most dangerous, only to be supplanted by the more powerful, diminutive, unassuming old man, Gohan.
The first time in the manga where Toriyama set out to create a traditionally terrifying villain, without subverting expectations by having him be a chump, was King Piccolo.
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... interview/
With all the villains up to that point, there was always something likable about them. So Demon King Piccolo was born from me trying to create a truly bad guy. That period was the most interesting to draw.
Fast forward to the Saiyan saga, and we meet Nappa, Raditz and Vegeta. The most powerful member is the shortest one who didn't have bulging exposed muscles. Go to Namek and Frieza's strongest henchman (pre-Ginyus) is the pretty boy, Zarbon. Fast forward to transformations and it's the same dynamic.https://www.kanzenshuu.com/press-archiv ... -toriyama/
I thought of Piccolo first, and I wanted to draw him as a scary character,
Toriyama has a pretty clear pattern, my guy. You'd have to be blind or not looking to not see it.
"Would Toriyama do this" is absolutely the best mantra to go by when you start making Dragonball content. If you're not doing that, then go make your own series. You can add your own spin on things, and hopefully you do, but the foundation should probably be the fact that you're working on Dragonball.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:49 pm "Would Toriyama do this" is not really the best measure to go by. Plenty of other creators have contributed to Dragon Ball, many of them skilled directors, writers or animators. If we cared about only doing things that Toriyama would then we wouldn't get the directing of Ueda Yoshihiro, Yama'uchi Shigeyasu, Nagamine Tatsuya, Nakamura Ryouta, Ishitani Megumi or the writing of Tomioka Atsuhiro.
And yes, I would be willing to throw out every name you listed there because what made me a Dragonball fan was reading the manga. Nothing else in this franchise even comes close to what Toriyama put on paper 30-40 years ago. It's why I don't get particularly defensive or judgmental about any other dragonball product—they're all just fun side content of varying quality. The original manga is where my fandom truly lies.
Also, you should generally aim to be like one of the greatest storytellers to ever live if you wanna be a storyteller. Even if you fall short of them, you'll still land pretty high up.
Bojack, the Super Incredible Guy, showing up out of nowhere to kill Gas and the Heeters would've been even more funny than Frieza doing it since they're all barely reskinned versions of Bojack and his group.
Filoni and Toyotaro are the same. They can produce content that's probably better than what most people who come to work on this established franchise can produce, but they fall unimaginably, indescribably short from the original creator. Filoni on his best day can't shine GL's boots, much like Toyotaro and Toriyama.
I just wish, like Star Wars, Dragonball at least had more than one writer who can produce quality. I'd rank James Luceno and Matt Stover lightyears beyond Filoni when it comes to creative talent and telling stories that have meaning and weight. It's a shame Toyotaro is the only person to work on this franchise in the past 30 years that can tell an entertaining, coherent Dragonball story.