What if the SOCIAL MEDIA had existed back during the Buu Saga?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Oh god, its terrifying to think the SHEER BLEAK BLACK HOLE Dragon Ball online discourse would have been back then. If the internet was to be believed Naruto and ESPECIALLY BLEACH's final arc was nothing but excrement being conveyed visually. I am so glad that arc didnt get the Internet Negativity treatment.

EDIT: Sorry for doing this retroactively, but I was told some people are missing the point of the thread but its more on me. I meant Social Media and the way discourse would have been had it been in the mainstream at the time.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

It existed, but it just wasn't as ubiquitous. Social media was in its infancy in English-speaking territories and not everyone had a smart phone with instant access to the net.

I do often wonder what Twitter responses and such would have been like and how many people would have complained about being spoiled. Although a not insignificant number of fans had already been spoiled on certain plot details and gotten accustomed to it from the tape trading scene.

In any case I think the Buu saga has had its fair share of Internet hate, probably something akin to what you see for Return of the Jedi where its not super vitriolic but the Internet discourse skews noticeably more on the negative side.

Its been reevaluated in recent years though, I've seen a lot of Dragon Ball fans soften up on it, which is nice, I've personally always loved the Buu saga.

[SupremeKai25]

Then the forums would look something like this:

"WTF, Why did Goku and Vegeta fight each other instead of fighting the Babidi forces? Are they stupid? I really hate how Toriyama dumbed down Goku! #NotMyGoku"

"WTF, Super Saiyan 3? Super Saiyan toddlers? What is this, a Super Saiyan bargain sale? I hate how Akira turned the legendary warrior form into a cheap and lazy excuse to sell new toys and figurines!!!"

"Gosh, Fusion is such a lazy and cheap asspull. Is Akira even trying to hide the fact that he just wants to sell more figurines and toys, lore be damned? Why didn't they just fuse in the Cell games? Are they stupid? This literally breaks the lore"

"Why does the main villain look rosé? Is this a joke? What a stupid colour for a villain!"

"I HATE how unserious and stupid this arc is! The main villain literally genocided the entirety of humanity and yet Goku still finds a reason to smile and laugh? Ruined!!!"

"We're just supposed to believe that this eldritch candy monster was just hiding on Earth all along and no one even had a clue... nice world-building, Toriyama isn't even trying."

Which, to be fair, is probably how these forums used to look like before 2015, when Super became the new punching bag by virtue of recency bias and the Buu saga received the benefit of childhood nostalgia.

[tonysoprano300]

In my experience, The Buu saga got a lot of flack in the social media era. So much so that rumours started spreading about how Toriyama actually wanted to end it during Cell but was pressured by fans to make more DB.

Its still by far considered to be the worst arc of the original DB run…but if we were tweeting about it on a weekly basis I could see the feedback being very similar to the Moro arc where people love the way it starts and hate the way it ends due to the endless amount of fakeouts.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Then the forums would look something like this:

"WTF, Why did Goku and Vegeta fight each other instead of fighting the Babidi forces? Are they stupid? I really hate how Toriyama dumbed down Goku! #NotMyGoku"

"WTF, Super Saiyan 3? Super Saiyan toddlers? What is this, a Super Saiyan bargain sale? I hate how Akira turned the legendary warrior form into a cheap and lazy excuse to sell new toys and figurines!!!"

"Gosh, Fusion is such a lazy and cheap asspull. Is Akira even trying to hide the fact that he just wants to sell more figurines and toys, lore be damned? Why didn't they just fuse in the Cell games? Are they stupid? This literally breaks the lore"

"Why does the main villain look rosé? Is this a joke? What a stupid colour for a villain!"

"I HATE how unserious and stupid this arc is! The main villain literally genocided the entirety of humanity and yet Goku still finds a reason to smile and laugh? Ruined!!!"

"We're just supposed to believe that this eldritch candy monster was just hiding on Earth all along and no one even had a clue... nice world-building, Toriyama isn't even trying."

Which, to be fair, is probably how these forums used to look like before 2015, when Super became the new punching bag by virtue of recency bias and the Buu saga received the benefit of childhood nostalgia.

This post was a joke post but most of these NEVER occurred to me. This makes me see I WAS RIGHT that the Buu arc REALLY would have been torn to pieces.

Also "Why no Fusion in Cell Arc" is such a legit thread I dont think I EVER SAW THIS mentioned, not ever. I really wonder why no one did until now

[tonysoprano300]

IDGI, how would they fuse in the Cell arc when Goku hadn’t learned about it yet and they haven’t met the Supreme Kai’s yet?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

In my experience, The Buu saga got a lot of flack in the social media era. So much so that rumours started spreading about how Toriyama actually wanted to end it during Cell but was pressured by fans to make more DB.

I think this one has been around since the 90s. I remember hearing it back in the early 2000s, but I'm sure social media helped revive that rumour and spread it further.

[Cure Dragon 255]

IDGI, how would they fuse in the Cell arc when Goku hadn’t learned about it yet and they haven’t met the Supreme Kai’s yet?

No, he learned that technique in that planet he learned Instant Transmission from. No, really! The Buu Arc explicitly mentions this.

I guess the explanation at the time was Vegeta is a small pipsqueak and they needed to be equal in height. Then they dropped that with Super Broly do I dunno.

[TechExpert2021]

Is the Internet hate of the Buu saga comparable to the Internet hate of the 1999 FUNimation dub or the 1996 Ocean/Saban dub of DBZ?

[Borger]

i feel like it would be good and bad. People would really like the idea of a totally different super saiyan from the new ssj3, fusion, and gohan suddenly unlocking his massive potential. But there would be a lot of people upset on super saiyan 3's energy drain, Gohan's arrogance and loss against Super Buu, the powerscaling, and many what ifs being discussed that they would've thought should've happened. I think the fans would discuss a lot more on dragon ball starting to fall off and opinions would be more negative

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Is the Internet hate of the Buu saga comparable to the Internet hate of the 1999 FUNimation dub or the 1996 Ocean/Saban dub of DBZ?

I think it's different because the Internet hate of the Buu saga is for the quality of storytelling whereas with Funimation's original dubs it's how they botched TOEI's vision.

I do think a lot of the online discourse from back then has been forgotten or at least feels less prominent, especially with younger people joining forums and such. The Faulconers Production score, for example was near universally derided online when Dragon Ball Z was airing on Toonami but it was only after-the-fact that fans who grew up with it started using sites like Kanzenshuu it started to seem more well liked. Brian Drummond also received immense criticism from the late 90s, early 2000s internet but in later years became more appreciated.

[SupremeKai25]

IDGI, how would they fuse in the Cell arc when Goku hadn’t learned about it yet and they haven’t met the Supreme Kai’s yet?

Kaioshin signs King Kai, Kami, and Dende's pay-checks. Is there any in-universe reason why these people never bothered mentioning Kaioshin and the Potara? They are Gods, so the Potara should be basic knowledge to them. King Kai and Kaioshin are literally members of the same species and Kaioshin is their manager.

[tonysoprano300]

IDGI, how would they fuse in the Cell arc when Goku hadn’t learned about it yet and they haven’t met the Supreme Kai’s yet?

No, he learned that technique in that planet he learned Instant Transmission from. No, really! The Buu Arc explicitly mentions this.

I guess the explanation at the time was Vegeta is a small pipsqueak and they needed to be equal in height. Then they dropped that with Super Broly do I dunno.

The fusion dance? The Buu arc says he learned it in the afterlife…unless I'm missing something

[Grimlock]

No, he learned that technique in that planet he learned Instant Transmission from. No, really! The Buu Arc explicitly mentions this.

Your mind is so focused on creating as many threads as possible daily in this forum that you began to confuse the Metamoru people with the Yadorats.

I guess the explanation at the time was Vegeta is a small pipsqueak and they needed to be equal in height. Then they dropped that with Super Broly do I dunno.

They didn't. The explanation was that Vegeta was dead at the time, which is why it never happened.

Is there any in-universe reason why these people never bothered mentioning Kaioshin and the Potara? They are Gods, so the Potara should be basic knowledge to them.

Yes, the reason is that it's a knowledge that was lost. Kaioshin of East didn't know about it.



When it was revealed the identity of Kaioshin of East, Kaio of North said he had never seen him before. None of this is "basic knowledge".

[tonysoprano300]

IDGI, how would they fuse in the Cell arc when Goku hadn’t learned about it yet and they haven’t met the Supreme Kai’s yet?

Kaioshin signs King Kai, Kami, and Dende's pay-checks. Is there any in-universe reason why these people never bothered mentioning Kaioshin and the Potara? They are Gods, so the Potara should be basic knowledge to them. King Kai and Kaioshin are literally members of the same species and Kaioshin is their manager.

I can buy that King Kai or Kami wouldn’t know about every single technique or art form that the gods of the universe do, if I'm not mistaken I don’t think Kami even met King Kai given that it was only Yemma who managed to cross snake way prior to Goku’s arrival. King Kai already taught Goku everything he knows and the Supreme Kai likely would not get involved with the affairs of the earth(hell even King Kai wasn’t aware that earth was under the threat of Cell until Goku told him).

[SupremeKai25]

IDGI, how would they fuse in the Cell arc when Goku hadn’t learned about it yet and they haven’t met the Supreme Kai’s yet?

Kaioshin signs King Kai, Kami, and Dende's pay-checks. Is there any in-universe reason why these people never bothered mentioning Kaioshin and the Potara? They are Gods, so the Potara should be basic knowledge to them. King Kai and Kaioshin are literally members of the same species and Kaioshin is their manager.

I can buy that King Kai or Kami wouldn’t know about every single technique or art form that the gods of the universe do, if I'm not mistaken I don’t think Kami even met King Kai given that it was only Yemma who managed to cross snake way prior to Goku’s arrival. King Kai already taught Goku everything he knows and the Supreme Kai likely would not get involved with the affairs of the earth(hell even King Kai wasn’t aware that earth was under the threat of Cell until Goku told him).

Doesn't matter. Kaioshin was stronger than both Frieza and Perfect Cell. I'm not saying he would have helped the Earth, but King Kai could have at least mentioned him. "Oh hey, there's this super strong guy who is also my manager, maybe I could petition him for help"

You people constantly complain about the """plot hole"" (I use the term very loosely) that Jiren and co. were nowhere to be seen in Future Trunks timeline. So I'm just going to say that it's also a plot hole that Kaioshin was never mentioned at any point prior to the Buu saga.

[Cure Dragon 255]

No, he learned that technique in that planet he learned Instant Transmission from. No, really! The Buu Arc explicitly mentions this.

Your mind is so focused on creating as many threads as possible daily in this forum that you began to confuse the Metamoru people with the Yadorats.

I guess the explanation at the time was Vegeta is a small pipsqueak and they needed to be equal in height. Then they dropped that with Super Broly do I dunno.

They didn't. The explanation was that Vegeta was dead at the time, which is why it never happened.

Is there any in-universe reason why these people never bothered mentioning Kaioshin and the Potara? They are Gods, so the Potara should be basic knowledge to them.

Yes, the reason is that it's a knowledge that was lost. Kaioshin of East didn't know about it.



When it was revealed the identity of Kaioshin of East, Kaio of North said he had never seen him before. None of this is "basic knowledge".

I know I make a lot of threads, but the brain fart is more that my mind REALLY IS regressing and losing memory bit by bit, which terrifies me a lot at the moment. This would have happened even if I wasnt the thread creator because I legit thought that's what happened even when I was a kid. Because Superme Kai ALSO mentioned it and thus it still made sense in my mind.

[tonysoprano300]

Kaioshin signs King Kai, Kami, and Dende's pay-checks. Is there any in-universe reason why these people never bothered mentioning Kaioshin and the Potara? They are Gods, so the Potara should be basic knowledge to them. King Kai and Kaioshin are literally members of the same species and Kaioshin is their manager.

I can buy that King Kai or Kami wouldn’t know about every single technique or art form that the gods of the universe do, if I'm not mistaken I don’t think Kami even met King Kai given that it was only Yemma who managed to cross snake way prior to Goku’s arrival. King Kai already taught Goku everything he knows and the Supreme Kai likely would not get involved with the affairs of the earth(hell even King Kai wasn’t aware that earth was under the threat of Cell until Goku told him).

Doesn't matter. Kaioshin was stronger than both Frieza and Perfect Cell. I'm not saying he would have helped the Earth, but King Kai could have at least mentioned him. "Oh hey, there's this super strong guy who is also my manager, maybe I could petition him for help"

You people constantly complain about the """plot hole"" (I use the term very loosely) that Jiren and co. were nowhere to be seen in Future Trunks timeline. So I'm just going to say that it's also a plot hole that Kaioshin was never mentioned at any point prior to the Buu saga.

He wasn’t stronger than Cell, he was terrified of Dabura remember?

Also i don’t understand this energy lol, i have criticized the hell out of the Buu and Cell arcs

[SupremeKai25]

I can buy that King Kai or Kami wouldn’t know about every single technique or art form that the gods of the universe do, if I'm not mistaken I don’t think Kami even met King Kai given that it was only Yemma who managed to cross snake way prior to Goku’s arrival. King Kai already taught Goku everything he knows and the Supreme Kai likely would not get involved with the affairs of the earth(hell even King Kai wasn’t aware that earth was under the threat of Cell until Goku told him).

Doesn't matter. Kaioshin was stronger than both Frieza and Perfect Cell. I'm not saying he would have helped the Earth, but King Kai could have at least mentioned him. "Oh hey, there's this super strong guy who is also my manager, maybe I could petition him for help"

You people constantly complain about the """plot hole"" (I use the term very loosely) that Jiren and co. were nowhere to be seen in Future Trunks timeline. So I'm just going to say that it's also a plot hole that Kaioshin was never mentioned at any point prior to the Buu saga.

He wasn’t stronger than Cell, he was terrified of Dabura remember?

Also i don’t understand this energy lol, i have criticized the hell out of the Buu and Cell arcs

Simple, because it would be hilarious to see the tune changing if the Buu saga was somehow an arc of Super. There are far more similarities between the Buu saga and Super than people would like to admit.

Actually I'm rather glad for this, since the Buu saga is my favourite saga of Dragon Ball Z. It has just the right balance of comedy, humour, and dread/high stakes. Just like Super does.

I simply believe that the Buu saga would get criticized way more if it didn't benefit from nostalgia. Look at all the people who complained on Twitter that Goku threw a senzu bean at Moro: do you really think Twitter wouldn't massacre Goku and Vegeta for breaking their Potara earrings right before the final battle for survival?

[Yuli Ban]

It did, though!
And not even just the airing of Toonami Ball Z back in 2001-thru-2003 (Kanzenshuu was already a thing by that point, though as Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai) and that was probably the heyday of internet forums and chatrooms anyway, until social media began picking away at it)
I mean even the original release of the manga

In the form of Usenet, which you can still read bits of today
https://groups.google.com/search?q=%22d ... nOrg=false
https://groups.google.com/search/conver ... %2F01%2F01
https://groups.google.com/search/conver ... ortBy=DATE

Here's a fun one that seems familiar:
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.an ... 5pbcUTR0kJ

Dragon Ball Z : Trunks or Songoten
Dec 1, 1993, 1:48:41 AM

What's going on in the DBZ's latest story?
Goku just returned. They are going to start the
registration for the tenkaichi budoukai next week.

Hi everybody.I'm a french engineering student and I'm a fan of japanese
animation. I'm learning japanese and I buy Japanese mangas ( Saint Seya,
Shurato, Dragon Ball).

So I would like to answer to the message about what's happening now in DBZ after
the ending of the battle against Cell.

Goku is able to spend 24 hours on Earth thanks to Baba, Roshin's sister, and
with Bejita, Trunks, Songohan, Songoten and N 18 and Kulilin, he is going to
participate in the tenkaichi budoukai. At the end of the manga 36, Trunks has
begun to fight against someone and he has won very easily. It's now the turn of
Songoten . I suppose that at a time we will have the combat between Trunks and
Songoten, who have both become super saiyajins although they are just child.

If you have any questions to ask about Dragon Ball, Saint Seya or City Hunter,
Ranma, Shurato, all my most prefer anime, please just ask. I'd be pleased to
answer them and to speak with other anime and manga 's fans.

and excuse me if my english sounds a bit french...

Dragon Ball Z (Major Spoilers)
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.an ... X7HOTE_A4J
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.an ... jtEv2_-NMJ
Jul 9, 1994

I don't know much about the post to this group on DBZ, but they seem
kinda old. Still talking about Cell? He's long gone and as far as I know,
DBZ has an new enemy, the wizard can't remember his name who is trying to
resurrect a demon king, whatever, I don't know how to spell out the names
cos I read the chinese subtitles which is the same character japanese
uses but never can I make out the pronouciation in japanese, anyways I
would be glad to fill people in on what's happening right now in DBZ.

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.culture ... 52fQPo4qkJ

Hi Hongkongers,

Does anyone know anything about the latest story of Dragon Ball Z?
I just know The Cell was defeated by Gohan. Thanks!!!

That's already at least two months ago... the new story continued in
two directions.... oh well... maybe I should go to Japan town to see
what the latest story is about...

Dragonball Z : ch 426
Jul 4, 1993
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.an ... ikm9vFPmYJ

>maybe Kuririn and #18's child
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WHAT ?!?! THEIR child !?!?!!? OK, there's a "maybe" but though...

Lolkek

DBZ: How did Gohan die?!
May 18, 1994
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.an ... aAbfWPgzMJ

Gohan is THOUGHT to have been killed, but he's not dead. Piccolo
HEARD Begita said that Gohan is dead, and not even Begita was sure that
Gohan is dead. But in the latest issue of JUMP, Kaiyoshin found Gohan
and his sidekick (forgot his name), whom got reserected by Dragon Ball,
"healed" Gohan with the trick he did earlier when Gohan's energy was
taken at the tournament.
So, Gohan's not dead!

DBZ: How does Vegita die?
May 13, 1994
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.an ... iRoTelzqQJ

As the title says; I've heard Vegita dies in the latest
DBZ episodes. Who kills him and what are the circumstances of his
death... and how likely/unlikely is it that he'll come back from
the dead in one way or another?

Dragon Ball chapter 466
Apr 25, 1994
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.ma ... 9P1QkmAnAJ

Bonus find

The Great Mysteries of Dragonball Z
Jan 6, 1994
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.an ... 7x0HQVXPIJ

Dragon Ball (all Japanese)
Sep 28, 1992
https://groups.google.com/g/fj.rec.comi ... MtBP_AklQJ

It looks like it's about to end.
(Although it seems like the fight with Cell alone will be pretty long.) The reason I
thought of this is,
・Although it is called the Cell Games, a tournament modeled after Tenkaichi will be held.
　It is common to use themes from earlier episodes and carry them into the final episode.
　Otokojuku is like that too.
・Goku will be shown to the public during the Cell Games broadcast, and when the battle is over
　,
　it will be a beautiful final episode with a reminder that there was a guy like that.・　It seems that the Namekians will be made into gods and the dragon balls will be used to revive
the mass-killed civilians . That's what they call a happy ending.

Am I being naive? Maybe a new series will start... (^_^;)

A big Dragon Ball prophecy!! (Not quite.)

・A grown-up Upa appears in the Cell Games to repay Goku for his kindness.
　King Chapa, who is full of confidence, may also appear.
　He is killed easily.
・Goku is killed. He and Cell kill each other.
・When collecting the Dragon Balls, there is a quarrel with Pilaf.
・In the afterlife, he gives the peace sign to the original Gohan and King Kai at the
　end .

#Hehehe. All my predictions have failed so far!

Well, YOKOSUKA-KID, wherever you are now 32 years later, 1 out of 6 ain't bad.

My friend also said this.
There will be many strong enemies coming from the world where King Kai of the North cannot get involved.
As for future predictions,
the Cell Games have started. A mysterious man appears first.
And this man easily defeats Cell.
Goku and the others are horrified by the appearance of a new formidable enemy...

Why does this feel Dragon Ball Super-esque?
Wait... "Mitsutaka Nakamura?" If you rearrange the letters, take away some letters, and add other letters, it spells.....! *Pulls off mask* It was Toyotaro, all along!

The more surreal aspect of all this isn't seeing these discussions and posts from a time before I was born (I'm sure there are some Zoomers and Alphababbies who are adults who are using this forum who were born well after Kanzenshuu was created and even when the English dub of Toonami Ball Z finished up) but more seeing Dragon Ball unfolding in real time before its original end. Kinda neat.

Unfortunately due to the nature of Usenet, a great majority of posts have yet to be found, if they ever will, and a lot of the discussions were certainly brief, if not just a single post signing off on something like a summary of a chapter or episode.
Still, neat snapshot of history!