daima theory and a mistake in dragon ball gt (not a plot hole)

[SelfTrainedNamekian]

i wouldent call it a plot hole but i would call it a mistake and thats when pilaf asked goku to be a kid, he meant that goku will return to his child days. that means that he will also have the same power level that he had as a kid. otherwise why would pilaf ask for goku to just look like a kid but having the same power level of an adult with all his super Saiyan transformations and such. which is why toei made a mistake (but it was obviously an intentional mistake, for the sake of selling merch) to just make goku a kid but keep him at the same power level.

going now to daima and what i think is going on. we dont know if they are all turning into kids because of the dragon or something else, but i think that this time both goku and the rest are not just looking like kids. they are back to their childhood days with their childhood power level. which is why goku need the power pole again. in the second trailer that came out we saw goku use a lot of hand to hand combat like in his childhood days.

if this would be case it would mean that this time they did it smart.

[Kaboom]

We all know the Dragons are trolls, especially when they're granting wishes to badguys. Even if Pilaf's underlying desire behind his accidental wish was for Goku to get weaker, it's highly likely Ultimate Shenlong would intentionally let him keep his power anyway.

But that aside, yeah, it seems likely that Daima is going the opposite route.

[Cure Dragon 255]

We all know the Dragons are trolls, especially when they're granting wishes to badguys. Even if Pilaf's underlying desire behind his accidental wish was for Goku to get weaker, it's highly likely Ultimate Shenlong would intentionally let him keep his power anyway.

But that aside, yeah, it seems likely that Daima is going the opposite route.

I know this is Kanzenshuu which is a website that prides itself on information so Kaboom is very much a knowledgeable fan... but I have to disagree. The only time a dragon did anything close to trolling someone was with the Latin American (Natch lol!) dub had Oolong make the wish "Conquistar a Bulma" (Lit, I wanna conquer bulma but accurately he wants to get together with Bulma or make her love him) and Shenlong produced some panties as if to say "Nice try Bucko"... Only to reveal later on Shenlong CAN INDEED BRAINWASH PEOPLE and have them forget Buu ever existed.

Which begs the question why has nobody used the Dragon Balls to make the villain forget shit. Like Something Something Make Vegeta Forget about the Dragon Balls.

[AliTheZombie13]

Pilaf wished specifically that Goku were small, not that he were the exact same Goku he was during Early DB.
Regardless, GT did try to nerf goku. Emphasis on "try", because he was still OP as heck.

[WittyUsername]

Pilaf wished specifically that Goku were small, not that he were the exact same Goku he was during Early DB.
Regardless, GT did try to nerf goku. Emphasis on "try", because he was still OP as heck.

Let’s be real though, the only real “nerfing” Goku suffered was that he was conveniently no longer able to teleport. Oh, and I guess he wasn’t able to maintain SS3 as long as when he was an adult, but that only came up once, and that form was never particularly useful anyway.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Pilaf wished specifically that Goku were small, not that he were the exact same Goku he was during Early DB.
Regardless, GT did try to nerf goku. Emphasis on "try", because he was still OP as heck.

Let’s be real though, the only real “nerfing” Goku suffered was that he was conveniently no longer able to teleport. Oh, and I guess he wasn’t able to maintain SS3 as long as when he was an adult, but that only came up once, and that form was never particularly useful anyway.

Lets be even more real, I hate tearing on GT since Ali and Robo like it, but absolutely everyone on GT as dumb as a bag of hammers.

https://duhragonball.tumblr.com/post/70 ... ball-gt-54

Is This Episode Worse than “The Roaming Lake”?
Yes, this episode is the drizzling shits. The Roaming Lake looks like a Miyazaki film festival compared to this nonsense.

image
So it seems to start out okay, and I guess the setup is what stood out in my memory, which is why I forgot how bad this one was. Nuova shows up and makes it plain that he wants an epic showdown with Goku. No granddaughters, no goofy tricks, no bullshit of any kind. They’re in another deserted city, and Nuova shoots a gargoyle off a building and says they’ll start fighting when it hits the ground, which is a really cool way to start this thing.

Then they zip around the battlefield really quickly, like they would do all the time in DBZ, so we’re off to a promising start. And Nuova punches through a chunk of debris, because he can make his whole body insanely hot, and just melt through solid objects. So he’s got an interesting power that should make this battle unusual.

image
But then things go very wrong, very quickly. Goku can’t even touch Nuova because of the extreme heat of his body. Nuova claims that he can briefly become as hot as the surface of the sun, which… how does Goku still have a hand, then?

image
From here, it just turns into this weird cat-and-mouse game, where Goku hides inside a casino resort and Nuova stalks him through the building. Why is this happening? Nuova could destroy the entire town if he wanted to, and Goku quickly determines that he’ll need to use ki blasts to fight him, so why is he sneaking around, using as little ki as possible?

image
There’s a part where Goku runs up and down the stairwells trying to get away from Nuova, and Nuova keeps cutting him off, and just sort of standing there while Goku runs off in the opposite direction. Why? It doesn’t make any sense. Why is Goku even trying to hide from this guy? And why isn’t Nuova bothering to chase him?

image
Eventually, Goku manages to get the drop on him and land some ki blasts, but they don’t seem to do much damage. So I guess Goku was just trying to snipe Nuova from a distance, but he couldn’t get far enough away without getting spotted?

As I recall, the dub kept emphasizing how weak Goku was in this episode, becase at the beginning he complains that he’s hungry. The subbed version doesn’t do this. I mean, he’s hungry either way, but the original script never follows up on this. I think the dub only harped on it because they felt like they needed to do something to explain why Goku kept running away.

image
So Goku uses the sewers to get the drop on Nuova, but then Nuova just follows him down there, and they go on a merry chase down there, as opposed to the merry chase they had in the hotel. And then Goku runs out of places to hide because…

image
VENTILATION FAN.

This fan is special. For one thing, it’s in a sewer, which is pretty dumb, since I’m fairly certain that there’s no point in providing ventilation down there. It’s a common trope in fiction to depict sewers as these cool underground tunnels where you can have secret bases and secret passages and secret whatever else you want. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles probably cemented the idea in pop culture, but I suspect it originates with the Morlocks from the X-Men comics. In point of fact, the Morlocks lived in underground bomb shelters, not the sewers, but the two can get conflated pretty easily, and by the time Eastman and Laird made their parody of ninja and mutant comics with TMNT, it was set in these cavernous sewer tunnels that looked more like the halls of an old castle than a place designed to carry away human excrement.

That’s where the sewer trope falls apart. People see manholes an thing there’s a whole awesome world down there, but the reality is that you can’t just stroll through tunnels wading through six-inch-deep green water. The tunnels are pipes, and the pipes are too small for a human to walk through, becuase they’re not for humans, they’re for poo water. Even if you could walk through one of those things, the fumes would kill you long before you could get anywhere.

And yet, this one in GT has a ventilation fan, as if someone designed this sewage system to make it more habitable for any superheroes who ended up down here. I don’t know, maybe there’s a legitimate purpose for a thing like this, but I do find it pretty ridiculous.

But what’s truly ridiculous is that Goku looks at this fan like it’s somehow blocking him from escaping the tunnels. He’s like “Oh no! A dead end!” I’ve lost count of how many walls this guy has smashed through over the years. He’s trained at 100 times normal gravity, and fought battles beyond comprehension, but this ventilation fan has him stymied.

It’s not even moving that fast. I could make a gif and try to calculate its exact speed, but fuck that. I’m not humoring this this bullshit anymore. It’s not an adamantium fan reinforced with Norse magic. It looks flimsy as hell. Goku could just grab it with his hands and bend the blades around to jam the mechanism. Hell, I think I could do that.

image
Instead, he steels himself like he’s about to do something desperate, and he jumps through the space between the fan blades, like this is some incredible feat of daring. Then Nuova finally walks up to the fan and just sort of stares at it like “Wow, I never expected him to do that. What a guy.”

image
Then Nuova just burns his way through to follow Goku to whatever reservoir this is. See, this is GT Logic in it’s purest form. Nuova is constantly using his super powers to brute force his way through all obstacles. Goku has immense super powers of his own, but for some reason he refuses to use any of them. And even though he’s acting weak and helpless, Nuova never turns up the pressure to capitalize on this. This is a fight, and no one’s trying to win. They’re just Doing Things for no obvious reason.

image
So then Nuova generates some sort of lens to focus his power into lasers or something, and Goku scouts it and uses the Solar Flare to turn it against Nuova. That’s kind of clever, except Goku could just shoot him with a Kamehameha to achieve the same result. These guys keep fighting like they’ve been fighting for several episodes already, but it’s only the first round. They don’t need to improvise, they’re fresh.

image
So finally, Nuova transforms. He covered himself in some sort of film to contain his awesome heat powers, and now he’s removing it. His face still looks dumb.

image
And Goku turns Super Saiyan 4, claiming that the intense heat won’t bother him much while he’s in this form. THEN WHY DIDN’T YOU USE IT BEFORE?! FUCK!

Sometimes it feels like the people making this show had never even seen Dragon Ball Z, which is weird, because a lot of them had worked on DBZ before this. It’s like they were making Z and just paid zero attention to how any of the fights worked. It’s like they understood you needed to start off small and build up to the heavier offense later on, but why would Goku run around dodging heat rays for fifteen minutes when he could just turn into his ultimate form and fight on more even footing? And why is Nuova toying with Goku like this? He wants him dead, doesn’t he? Or maybe he just wants to push Goku into using his full power, but then why doesn’t he get more aggressive and leave Goku with no other option?

Once again, the answer is that if they do it this way, then they can make the Nuova Shenron fight last longer, with pads out the series. And hoo-boy do they pad the crap out of this one…

[Cure Dragon 255]

Pilaf wished specifically that Goku were small, not that he were the exact same Goku he was during Early DB.
Regardless, GT did try to nerf goku. Emphasis on "try", because he was still OP as heck.

Let’s be real though, the only real “nerfing” Goku suffered was that he was conveniently no longer able to teleport. Oh, and I guess he wasn’t able to maintain SS3 as long as when he was an adult, but that only came up once, and that form was never particularly useful anyway.

Lets be even more real, I hate tearing on GT since Ali and Robo like it, but absolutely everyone on GT as dumb as a bag of hammers.

https://duhragonball.tumblr.com/post/70 ... ball-gt-54

Is This Episode Worse than “The Roaming Lake”?
Yes, this episode is the drizzling shits. The Roaming Lake looks like a Miyazaki film festival compared to this nonsense.

image
So it seems to start out okay, and I guess the setup is what stood out in my memory, which is why I forgot how bad this one was. Nuova shows up and makes it plain that he wants an epic showdown with Goku. No granddaughters, no goofy tricks, no bullshit of any kind. They’re in another deserted city, and Nuova shoots a gargoyle off a building and says they’ll start fighting when it hits the ground, which is a really cool way to start this thing.

Then they zip around the battlefield really quickly, like they would do all the time in DBZ, so we’re off to a promising start. And Nuova punches through a chunk of debris, because he can make his whole body insanely hot, and just melt through solid objects. So he’s got an interesting power that should make this battle unusual.

image
But then things go very wrong, very quickly. Goku can’t even touch Nuova because of the extreme heat of his body. Nuova claims that he can briefly become as hot as the surface of the sun, which… how does Goku still have a hand, then?

image
From here, it just turns into this weird cat-and-mouse game, where Goku hides inside a casino resort and Nuova stalks him through the building. Why is this happening? Nuova could destroy the entire town if he wanted to, and Goku quickly determines that he’ll need to use ki blasts to fight him, so why is he sneaking around, using as little ki as possible?

image
There’s a part where Goku runs up and down the stairwells trying to get away from Nuova, and Nuova keeps cutting him off, and just sort of standing there while Goku runs off in the opposite direction. Why? It doesn’t make any sense. Why is Goku even trying to hide from this guy? And why isn’t Nuova bothering to chase him?

image
Eventually, Goku manages to get the drop on him and land some ki blasts, but they don’t seem to do much damage. So I guess Goku was just trying to snipe Nuova from a distance, but he couldn’t get far enough away without getting spotted?

As I recall, the dub kept emphasizing how weak Goku was in this episode, becase at the beginning he complains that he’s hungry. The subbed version doesn’t do this. I mean, he’s hungry either way, but the original script never follows up on this. I think the dub only harped on it because they felt like they needed to do something to explain why Goku kept running away.

image
So Goku uses the sewers to get the drop on Nuova, but then Nuova just follows him down there, and they go on a merry chase down there, as opposed to the merry chase they had in the hotel. And then Goku runs out of places to hide because…

image
VENTILATION FAN.

This fan is special. For one thing, it’s in a sewer, which is pretty dumb, since I’m fairly certain that there’s no point in providing ventilation down there. It’s a common trope in fiction to depict sewers as these cool underground tunnels where you can have secret bases and secret passages and secret whatever else you want. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles probably cemented the idea in pop culture, but I suspect it originates with the Morlocks from the X-Men comics. In point of fact, the Morlocks lived in underground bomb shelters, not the sewers, but the two can get conflated pretty easily, and by the time Eastman and Laird made their parody of ninja and mutant comics with TMNT, it was set in these cavernous sewer tunnels that looked more like the halls of an old castle than a place designed to carry away human excrement.

That’s where the sewer trope falls apart. People see manholes an thing there’s a whole awesome world down there, but the reality is that you can’t just stroll through tunnels wading through six-inch-deep green water. The tunnels are pipes, and the pipes are too small for a human to walk through, becuase they’re not for humans, they’re for poo water. Even if you could walk through one of those things, the fumes would kill you long before you could get anywhere.

And yet, this one in GT has a ventilation fan, as if someone designed this sewage system to make it more habitable for any superheroes who ended up down here. I don’t know, maybe there’s a legitimate purpose for a thing like this, but I do find it pretty ridiculous.

But what’s truly ridiculous is that Goku looks at this fan like it’s somehow blocking him from escaping the tunnels. He’s like “Oh no! A dead end!” I’ve lost count of how many walls this guy has smashed through over the years. He’s trained at 100 times normal gravity, and fought battles beyond comprehension, but this ventilation fan has him stymied.

It’s not even moving that fast. I could make a gif and try to calculate its exact speed, but fuck that. I’m not humoring this this bullshit anymore. It’s not an adamantium fan reinforced with Norse magic. It looks flimsy as hell. Goku could just grab it with his hands and bend the blades around to jam the mechanism. Hell, I think I could do that.

image
Instead, he steels himself like he’s about to do something desperate, and he jumps through the space between the fan blades, like this is some incredible feat of daring. Then Nuova finally walks up to the fan and just sort of stares at it like “Wow, I never expected him to do that. What a guy.”

image
Then Nuova just burns his way through to follow Goku to whatever reservoir this is. See, this is GT Logic in it’s purest form. Nuova is constantly using his super powers to brute force his way through all obstacles. Goku has immense super powers of his own, but for some reason he refuses to use any of them. And even though he’s acting weak and helpless, Nuova never turns up the pressure to capitalize on this. This is a fight, and no one’s trying to win. They’re just Doing Things for no obvious reason.

image
So then Nuova generates some sort of lens to focus his power into lasers or something, and Goku scouts it and uses the Solar Flare to turn it against Nuova. That’s kind of clever, except Goku could just shoot him with a Kamehameha to achieve the same result. These guys keep fighting like they’ve been fighting for several episodes already, but it’s only the first round. They don’t need to improvise, they’re fresh.

image
So finally, Nuova transforms. He covered himself in some sort of film to contain his awesome heat powers, and now he’s removing it. His face still looks dumb.

image
And Goku turns Super Saiyan 4, claiming that the intense heat won’t bother him much while he’s in this form. THEN WHY DIDN’T YOU USE IT BEFORE?! FUCK!

Sometimes it feels like the people making this show had never even seen Dragon Ball Z, which is weird, because a lot of them had worked on DBZ before this. It’s like they were making Z and just paid zero attention to how any of the fights worked. It’s like they understood you needed to start off small and build up to the heavier offense later on, but why would Goku run around dodging heat rays for fifteen minutes when he could just turn into his ultimate form and fight on more even footing? And why is Nuova toying with Goku like this? He wants him dead, doesn’t he? Or maybe he just wants to push Goku into using his full power, but then why doesn’t he get more aggressive and leave Goku with no other option?

Once again, the answer is that if they do it this way, then they can make the Nuova Shenron fight last longer, with pads out the series. And hoo-boy do they pad the crap out of this one…

[Cure Dragon 255]

Pilaf wished specifically that Goku were small, not that he were the exact same Goku he was during Early DB.
Regardless, GT did try to nerf goku. Emphasis on "try", because he was still OP as heck.

Let’s be real though, the only real “nerfing” Goku suffered was that he was conveniently no longer able to teleport. Oh, and I guess he wasn’t able to maintain SS3 as long as when he was an adult, but that only came up once, and that form was never particularly useful anyway.

Lets be even more real, I hate tearing on GT since Ali and Robo like it, but absolutely everyone on GT as dumb as a bag of hammers.

https://duhragonball.tumblr.com/post/70 ... ball-gt-54

Is This Episode Worse than “The Roaming Lake”?
Yes, this episode is the drizzling shits. The Roaming Lake looks like a Miyazaki film festival compared to this nonsense.

image
So it seems to start out okay, and I guess the setup is what stood out in my memory, which is why I forgot how bad this one was. Nuova shows up and makes it plain that he wants an epic showdown with Goku. No granddaughters, no goofy tricks, no bullshit of any kind. They’re in another deserted city, and Nuova shoots a gargoyle off a building and says they’ll start fighting when it hits the ground, which is a really cool way to start this thing.

Then they zip around the battlefield really quickly, like they would do all the time in DBZ, so we’re off to a promising start. And Nuova punches through a chunk of debris, because he can make his whole body insanely hot, and just melt through solid objects. So he’s got an interesting power that should make this battle unusual.

image
But then things go very wrong, very quickly. Goku can’t even touch Nuova because of the extreme heat of his body. Nuova claims that he can briefly become as hot as the surface of the sun, which… how does Goku still have a hand, then?

image
From here, it just turns into this weird cat-and-mouse game, where Goku hides inside a casino resort and Nuova stalks him through the building. Why is this happening? Nuova could destroy the entire town if he wanted to, and Goku quickly determines that he’ll need to use ki blasts to fight him, so why is he sneaking around, using as little ki as possible?

image
There’s a part where Goku runs up and down the stairwells trying to get away from Nuova, and Nuova keeps cutting him off, and just sort of standing there while Goku runs off in the opposite direction. Why? It doesn’t make any sense. Why is Goku even trying to hide from this guy? And why isn’t Nuova bothering to chase him?

image
Eventually, Goku manages to get the drop on him and land some ki blasts, but they don’t seem to do much damage. So I guess Goku was just trying to snipe Nuova from a distance, but he couldn’t get far enough away without getting spotted?

As I recall, the dub kept emphasizing how weak Goku was in this episode, becase at the beginning he complains that he’s hungry. The subbed version doesn’t do this. I mean, he’s hungry either way, but the original script never follows up on this. I think the dub only harped on it because they felt like they needed to do something to explain why Goku kept running away.

image
So Goku uses the sewers to get the drop on Nuova, but then Nuova just follows him down there, and they go on a merry chase down there, as opposed to the merry chase they had in the hotel. And then Goku runs out of places to hide because…

image
VENTILATION FAN.

This fan is special. For one thing, it’s in a sewer, which is pretty dumb, since I’m fairly certain that there’s no point in providing ventilation down there. It’s a common trope in fiction to depict sewers as these cool underground tunnels where you can have secret bases and secret passages and secret whatever else you want. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles probably cemented the idea in pop culture, but I suspect it originates with the Morlocks from the X-Men comics. In point of fact, the Morlocks lived in underground bomb shelters, not the sewers, but the two can get conflated pretty easily, and by the time Eastman and Laird made their parody of ninja and mutant comics with TMNT, it was set in these cavernous sewer tunnels that looked more like the halls of an old castle than a place designed to carry away human excrement.

That’s where the sewer trope falls apart. People see manholes an thing there’s a whole awesome world down there, but the reality is that you can’t just stroll through tunnels wading through six-inch-deep green water. The tunnels are pipes, and the pipes are too small for a human to walk through, becuase they’re not for humans, they’re for poo water. Even if you could walk through one of those things, the fumes would kill you long before you could get anywhere.

And yet, this one in GT has a ventilation fan, as if someone designed this sewage system to make it more habitable for any superheroes who ended up down here. I don’t know, maybe there’s a legitimate purpose for a thing like this, but I do find it pretty ridiculous.

But what’s truly ridiculous is that Goku looks at this fan like it’s somehow blocking him from escaping the tunnels. He’s like “Oh no! A dead end!” I’ve lost count of how many walls this guy has smashed through over the years. He’s trained at 100 times normal gravity, and fought battles beyond comprehension, but this ventilation fan has him stymied.

It’s not even moving that fast. I could make a gif and try to calculate its exact speed, but fuck that. I’m not humoring this this bullshit anymore. It’s not an adamantium fan reinforced with Norse magic. It looks flimsy as hell. Goku could just grab it with his hands and bend the blades around to jam the mechanism. Hell, I think I could do that.

image
Instead, he steels himself like he’s about to do something desperate, and he jumps through the space between the fan blades, like this is some incredible feat of daring. Then Nuova finally walks up to the fan and just sort of stares at it like “Wow, I never expected him to do that. What a guy.”

image
Then Nuova just burns his way through to follow Goku to whatever reservoir this is. See, this is GT Logic in it’s purest form. Nuova is constantly using his super powers to brute force his way through all obstacles. Goku has immense super powers of his own, but for some reason he refuses to use any of them. And even though he’s acting weak and helpless, Nuova never turns up the pressure to capitalize on this. This is a fight, and no one’s trying to win. They’re just Doing Things for no obvious reason.

image
So then Nuova generates some sort of lens to focus his power into lasers or something, and Goku scouts it and uses the Solar Flare to turn it against Nuova. That’s kind of clever, except Goku could just shoot him with a Kamehameha to achieve the same result. These guys keep fighting like they’ve been fighting for several episodes already, but it’s only the first round. They don’t need to improvise, they’re fresh.

image
So finally, Nuova transforms. He covered himself in some sort of film to contain his awesome heat powers, and now he’s removing it. His face still looks dumb.

image
And Goku turns Super Saiyan 4, claiming that the intense heat won’t bother him much while he’s in this form. THEN WHY DIDN’T YOU USE IT BEFORE?! FUCK!

Sometimes it feels like the people making this show had never even seen Dragon Ball Z, which is weird, because a lot of them had worked on DBZ before this. It’s like they were making Z and just paid zero attention to how any of the fights worked. It’s like they understood you needed to start off small and build up to the heavier offense later on, but why would Goku run around dodging heat rays for fifteen minutes when he could just turn into his ultimate form and fight on more even footing? And why is Nuova toying with Goku like this? He wants him dead, doesn’t he? Or maybe he just wants to push Goku into using his full power, but then why doesn’t he get more aggressive and leave Goku with no other option?

Once again, the answer is that if they do it this way, then they can make the Nuova Shenron fight last longer, with pads out the series. And hoo-boy do they pad the crap out of this one…

[taikufuru]

I think Dragon Ball GT, more precisely the first 25 episodes, would be more thought-provoking and tense if they had actually gone ahead with the idea of ​​Goku becoming weaker when he returns to being a child.

The only two limitations are teleportation and Super Saiyan 3, which is not even necessary to eliminate 99.9% of the villains in this arc.

I would add a few more limitations:

• The lack of familiarity with the small body;
• The impossibility of using techniques such as Kaioken or Super Saiyan transformations as they are too powerful for Goku's small body;

In his base form he would still be stronger than Trunks, but he would have to really work hard to defeat Luud, Rild and others.

[SupremeKai25]

Wasn't it already said that they turned into kids because a sorcerer (the guy watching the Majin Buu saga flashbacks in the trailer) did some sorcery/magic on them?

I find it interesting how the writers want to make another warlock villain so soon after Moro. Hopefully this guy also uses a bit more magic than Moro.

[TheGreatness25]

Red Shen Long waa being a troll, as Kaboom said. He granted a wish that wasn't even being directed towards him.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't think we have enough information to speculate on whether or not Goku will or won't have the same potential as a kid. If anything Dragon Ball has generally leaned the other direction by establishing kids can become as strong as adults provided they are pushed far enough.

Goten and Trunks at 7 years of age gained a form that was strong enough to topple the previous emperor of the universe (Freeza) that a 24-year old Goku who spent his entire life training had only just achieved. The GT Perfect Files also states that Goku's Super Saiyan form was no weaker in his child body (which would also apply to 2 and 3) and that only his stamina was reduced.

The use of the nyoibo (power pole) could be that little bit of fan service catering to fans of the original series and the earlier manga arcs, just like the denshi jar and mafuba being used in Dragon Ball Super as it is the series 40th anniversary, not the 40th anniversary of Z or manga volumes 17-42.

[AliTheZombie13]

Lets be even more real, I hate tearing on GT since Ali and Robo like it, but absolutely everyone on GT as dumb as a bag of hammers.

You can tear the Evil Dragons part all you want. Other than the very ending and the very beginning, I don't like it.
And yes, that includes the absolute bore-fest that is the Dragon brothers and the even more boring Scooby-Doo chase that ensues.

[WittyUsername]

Pilaf wished specifically that Goku were small, not that he were the exact same Goku he was during Early DB.
Regardless, GT did try to nerf goku. Emphasis on "try", because he was still OP as heck.

Let’s be real though, the only real “nerfing” Goku suffered was that he was conveniently no longer able to teleport. Oh, and I guess he wasn’t able to maintain SS3 as long as when he was an adult, but that only came up once, and that form was never particularly useful anyway.

Lets be even more real, I hate tearing on GT since Ali and Robo like it, but absolutely everyone on GT as dumb as a bag of hammers.

https://duhragonball.tumblr.com/post/70 ... ball-gt-54

Is This Episode Worse than “The Roaming Lake”?
Yes, this episode is the drizzling shits. The Roaming Lake looks like a Miyazaki film festival compared to this nonsense.

image
So it seems to start out okay, and I guess the setup is what stood out in my memory, which is why I forgot how bad this one was. Nuova shows up and makes it plain that he wants an epic showdown with Goku. No granddaughters, no goofy tricks, no bullshit of any kind. They’re in another deserted city, and Nuova shoots a gargoyle off a building and says they’ll start fighting when it hits the ground, which is a really cool way to start this thing.

Then they zip around the battlefield really quickly, like they would do all the time in DBZ, so we’re off to a promising start. And Nuova punches through a chunk of debris, because he can make his whole body insanely hot, and just melt through solid objects. So he’s got an interesting power that should make this battle unusual.

image
But then things go very wrong, very quickly. Goku can’t even touch Nuova because of the extreme heat of his body. Nuova claims that he can briefly become as hot as the surface of the sun, which… how does Goku still have a hand, then?

image
From here, it just turns into this weird cat-and-mouse game, where Goku hides inside a casino resort and Nuova stalks him through the building. Why is this happening? Nuova could destroy the entire town if he wanted to, and Goku quickly determines that he’ll need to use ki blasts to fight him, so why is he sneaking around, using as little ki as possible?

image
There’s a part where Goku runs up and down the stairwells trying to get away from Nuova, and Nuova keeps cutting him off, and just sort of standing there while Goku runs off in the opposite direction. Why? It doesn’t make any sense. Why is Goku even trying to hide from this guy? And why isn’t Nuova bothering to chase him?

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Eventually, Goku manages to get the drop on him and land some ki blasts, but they don’t seem to do much damage. So I guess Goku was just trying to snipe Nuova from a distance, but he couldn’t get far enough away without getting spotted?

As I recall, the dub kept emphasizing how weak Goku was in this episode, becase at the beginning he complains that he’s hungry. The subbed version doesn’t do this. I mean, he’s hungry either way, but the original script never follows up on this. I think the dub only harped on it because they felt like they needed to do something to explain why Goku kept running away.

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So Goku uses the sewers to get the drop on Nuova, but then Nuova just follows him down there, and they go on a merry chase down there, as opposed to the merry chase they had in the hotel. And then Goku runs out of places to hide because…

image
VENTILATION FAN.

This fan is special. For one thing, it’s in a sewer, which is pretty dumb, since I’m fairly certain that there’s no point in providing ventilation down there. It’s a common trope in fiction to depict sewers as these cool underground tunnels where you can have secret bases and secret passages and secret whatever else you want. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles probably cemented the idea in pop culture, but I suspect it originates with the Morlocks from the X-Men comics. In point of fact, the Morlocks lived in underground bomb shelters, not the sewers, but the two can get conflated pretty easily, and by the time Eastman and Laird made their parody of ninja and mutant comics with TMNT, it was set in these cavernous sewer tunnels that looked more like the halls of an old castle than a place designed to carry away human excrement.

That’s where the sewer trope falls apart. People see manholes an thing there’s a whole awesome world down there, but the reality is that you can’t just stroll through tunnels wading through six-inch-deep green water. The tunnels are pipes, and the pipes are too small for a human to walk through, becuase they’re not for humans, they’re for poo water. Even if you could walk through one of those things, the fumes would kill you long before you could get anywhere.

And yet, this one in GT has a ventilation fan, as if someone designed this sewage system to make it more habitable for any superheroes who ended up down here. I don’t know, maybe there’s a legitimate purpose for a thing like this, but I do find it pretty ridiculous.

But what’s truly ridiculous is that Goku looks at this fan like it’s somehow blocking him from escaping the tunnels. He’s like “Oh no! A dead end!” I’ve lost count of how many walls this guy has smashed through over the years. He’s trained at 100 times normal gravity, and fought battles beyond comprehension, but this ventilation fan has him stymied.

It’s not even moving that fast. I could make a gif and try to calculate its exact speed, but fuck that. I’m not humoring this this bullshit anymore. It’s not an adamantium fan reinforced with Norse magic. It looks flimsy as hell. Goku could just grab it with his hands and bend the blades around to jam the mechanism. Hell, I think I could do that.

image
Instead, he steels himself like he’s about to do something desperate, and he jumps through the space between the fan blades, like this is some incredible feat of daring. Then Nuova finally walks up to the fan and just sort of stares at it like “Wow, I never expected him to do that. What a guy.”

image
Then Nuova just burns his way through to follow Goku to whatever reservoir this is. See, this is GT Logic in it’s purest form. Nuova is constantly using his super powers to brute force his way through all obstacles. Goku has immense super powers of his own, but for some reason he refuses to use any of them. And even though he’s acting weak and helpless, Nuova never turns up the pressure to capitalize on this. This is a fight, and no one’s trying to win. They’re just Doing Things for no obvious reason.

image
So then Nuova generates some sort of lens to focus his power into lasers or something, and Goku scouts it and uses the Solar Flare to turn it against Nuova. That’s kind of clever, except Goku could just shoot him with a Kamehameha to achieve the same result. These guys keep fighting like they’ve been fighting for several episodes already, but it’s only the first round. They don’t need to improvise, they’re fresh.

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So finally, Nuova transforms. He covered himself in some sort of film to contain his awesome heat powers, and now he’s removing it. His face still looks dumb.

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And Goku turns Super Saiyan 4, claiming that the intense heat won’t bother him much while he’s in this form. THEN WHY DIDN’T YOU USE IT BEFORE?! FUCK!

Sometimes it feels like the people making this show had never even seen Dragon Ball Z, which is weird, because a lot of them had worked on DBZ before this. It’s like they were making Z and just paid zero attention to how any of the fights worked. It’s like they understood you needed to start off small and build up to the heavier offense later on, but why would Goku run around dodging heat rays for fifteen minutes when he could just turn into his ultimate form and fight on more even footing? And why is Nuova toying with Goku like this? He wants him dead, doesn’t he? Or maybe he just wants to push Goku into using his full power, but then why doesn’t he get more aggressive and leave Goku with no other option?

Once again, the answer is that if they do it this way, then they can make the Nuova Shenron fight last longer, with pads out the series. And hoo-boy do they pad the crap out of this one…

Uh, was there a mistake? You replied three times to one post.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Let’s be real though, the only real “nerfing” Goku suffered was that he was conveniently no longer able to teleport. Oh, and I guess he wasn’t able to maintain SS3 as long as when he was an adult, but that only came up once, and that form was never particularly useful anyway.

Lets be even more real, I hate tearing on GT since Ali and Robo like it, but absolutely everyone on GT as dumb as a bag of hammers.

https://duhragonball.tumblr.com/post/70 ... ball-gt-54

Is This Episode Worse than “The Roaming Lake”?
Yes, this episode is the drizzling shits. The Roaming Lake looks like a Miyazaki film festival compared to this nonsense.

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So it seems to start out okay, and I guess the setup is what stood out in my memory, which is why I forgot how bad this one was. Nuova shows up and makes it plain that he wants an epic showdown with Goku. No granddaughters, no goofy tricks, no bullshit of any kind. They’re in another deserted city, and Nuova shoots a gargoyle off a building and says they’ll start fighting when it hits the ground, which is a really cool way to start this thing.

Then they zip around the battlefield really quickly, like they would do all the time in DBZ, so we’re off to a promising start. And Nuova punches through a chunk of debris, because he can make his whole body insanely hot, and just melt through solid objects. So he’s got an interesting power that should make this battle unusual.

image
But then things go very wrong, very quickly. Goku can’t even touch Nuova because of the extreme heat of his body. Nuova claims that he can briefly become as hot as the surface of the sun, which… how does Goku still have a hand, then?

image
From here, it just turns into this weird cat-and-mouse game, where Goku hides inside a casino resort and Nuova stalks him through the building. Why is this happening? Nuova could destroy the entire town if he wanted to, and Goku quickly determines that he’ll need to use ki blasts to fight him, so why is he sneaking around, using as little ki as possible?

image
There’s a part where Goku runs up and down the stairwells trying to get away from Nuova, and Nuova keeps cutting him off, and just sort of standing there while Goku runs off in the opposite direction. Why? It doesn’t make any sense. Why is Goku even trying to hide from this guy? And why isn’t Nuova bothering to chase him?

image
Eventually, Goku manages to get the drop on him and land some ki blasts, but they don’t seem to do much damage. So I guess Goku was just trying to snipe Nuova from a distance, but he couldn’t get far enough away without getting spotted?

As I recall, the dub kept emphasizing how weak Goku was in this episode, becase at the beginning he complains that he’s hungry. The subbed version doesn’t do this. I mean, he’s hungry either way, but the original script never follows up on this. I think the dub only harped on it because they felt like they needed to do something to explain why Goku kept running away.

image
So Goku uses the sewers to get the drop on Nuova, but then Nuova just follows him down there, and they go on a merry chase down there, as opposed to the merry chase they had in the hotel. And then Goku runs out of places to hide because…

image
VENTILATION FAN.

This fan is special. For one thing, it’s in a sewer, which is pretty dumb, since I’m fairly certain that there’s no point in providing ventilation down there. It’s a common trope in fiction to depict sewers as these cool underground tunnels where you can have secret bases and secret passages and secret whatever else you want. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles probably cemented the idea in pop culture, but I suspect it originates with the Morlocks from the X-Men comics. In point of fact, the Morlocks lived in underground bomb shelters, not the sewers, but the two can get conflated pretty easily, and by the time Eastman and Laird made their parody of ninja and mutant comics with TMNT, it was set in these cavernous sewer tunnels that looked more like the halls of an old castle than a place designed to carry away human excrement.

That’s where the sewer trope falls apart. People see manholes an thing there’s a whole awesome world down there, but the reality is that you can’t just stroll through tunnels wading through six-inch-deep green water. The tunnels are pipes, and the pipes are too small for a human to walk through, becuase they’re not for humans, they’re for poo water. Even if you could walk through one of those things, the fumes would kill you long before you could get anywhere.

And yet, this one in GT has a ventilation fan, as if someone designed this sewage system to make it more habitable for any superheroes who ended up down here. I don’t know, maybe there’s a legitimate purpose for a thing like this, but I do find it pretty ridiculous.

But what’s truly ridiculous is that Goku looks at this fan like it’s somehow blocking him from escaping the tunnels. He’s like “Oh no! A dead end!” I’ve lost count of how many walls this guy has smashed through over the years. He’s trained at 100 times normal gravity, and fought battles beyond comprehension, but this ventilation fan has him stymied.

It’s not even moving that fast. I could make a gif and try to calculate its exact speed, but fuck that. I’m not humoring this this bullshit anymore. It’s not an adamantium fan reinforced with Norse magic. It looks flimsy as hell. Goku could just grab it with his hands and bend the blades around to jam the mechanism. Hell, I think I could do that.

image
Instead, he steels himself like he’s about to do something desperate, and he jumps through the space between the fan blades, like this is some incredible feat of daring. Then Nuova finally walks up to the fan and just sort of stares at it like “Wow, I never expected him to do that. What a guy.”

image
Then Nuova just burns his way through to follow Goku to whatever reservoir this is. See, this is GT Logic in it’s purest form. Nuova is constantly using his super powers to brute force his way through all obstacles. Goku has immense super powers of his own, but for some reason he refuses to use any of them. And even though he’s acting weak and helpless, Nuova never turns up the pressure to capitalize on this. This is a fight, and no one’s trying to win. They’re just Doing Things for no obvious reason.

image
So then Nuova generates some sort of lens to focus his power into lasers or something, and Goku scouts it and uses the Solar Flare to turn it against Nuova. That’s kind of clever, except Goku could just shoot him with a Kamehameha to achieve the same result. These guys keep fighting like they’ve been fighting for several episodes already, but it’s only the first round. They don’t need to improvise, they’re fresh.

image
So finally, Nuova transforms. He covered himself in some sort of film to contain his awesome heat powers, and now he’s removing it. His face still looks dumb.

image
And Goku turns Super Saiyan 4, claiming that the intense heat won’t bother him much while he’s in this form. THEN WHY DIDN’T YOU USE IT BEFORE?! FUCK!

Sometimes it feels like the people making this show had never even seen Dragon Ball Z, which is weird, because a lot of them had worked on DBZ before this. It’s like they were making Z and just paid zero attention to how any of the fights worked. It’s like they understood you needed to start off small and build up to the heavier offense later on, but why would Goku run around dodging heat rays for fifteen minutes when he could just turn into his ultimate form and fight on more even footing? And why is Nuova toying with Goku like this? He wants him dead, doesn’t he? Or maybe he just wants to push Goku into using his full power, but then why doesn’t he get more aggressive and leave Goku with no other option?

Once again, the answer is that if they do it this way, then they can make the Nuova Shenron fight last longer, with pads out the series. And hoo-boy do they pad the crap out of this one…

Uh, was there a mistake? You replied three times to one post.

Oh God yes there was. OMG.