Websites that go deep on English dub?

[M16U3L2015]

While I personally am not a fan of DB's English dub, I have always found its story and production interesting.

So, what are the best sites, forums or threads that deal in detail with the making of the DB English dub?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

There isn't any Kanzenshuu-equivalents for English dubbed Dragon Ball, but I am working on my own website, which will deal with any and all international releases, so I'm sure at some point I'll be writing articles or features on the English dubs.

Last few days I've been reporting on India and Spain as there is a lot of new stuff coming to those territories, but I could do some sort of retrospective on English dubbed material. Is there a particular aspect to them you would like to read about?

[Tian]

The English Dubbing Wiki

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The English Dubbing Wiki

The dubbing wiki is good for a general overview of the English dubs, although for the Canadian dubs a lot of misinformation tends to make the rounds there.

The Westwood dub for example was not made to meet Canadian content quotas, and AB Groupe only distributed it within Europe. Remember the first 167 episodes of Dragon Ball Z aired on YTV with Funimation's dub (1-53 Saban and 54-167 inhouse) so for the majority of its run on Canadian TV the dub was strictly an American production. We also know AB had no more involvement besides selling the Westwood dub to TV stations because their logo only appeared at the end of the credits in European broadcasts but never in Canada.

I don't blame people for believing what is often written about the Westwood dub though, I did for years. Sadly Duncan Roberts and the rest of the crew who ran UKDB in 2000-2003 didn't keep the site going and a lot of their research became lost to time. Apparently they left the fandom because they were so disappointed when Ocean dropped the Vancouver actors and went with the Calgary cast for GT and original Dragon Ball, which was a shame because those dubs weren't that bad, and information about their production was quite hard to find.

[Tian]

The dubbing wiki is good for a general overview of the English dubs, although for the Canadian dubs a lot of misinformation tends to make the rounds there.

Oh. Yeah, I am checking it and you're right. The Canadian content wasn't a factor for the dub's production.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The dubbing wiki is good for a general overview of the English dubs, although for the Canadian dubs a lot of misinformation tends to make the rounds there.

Oh. Yeah, I am checking it and you're right. The Canadian content wasn't a factor for the dub's production.

The most likely explanation for the Westwood dub's existence has always been that Funimation's dub was likely too expensive to license long term. CNX aired the Fusion saga with Funimation's dub in the UK and Ireland but then after a certain number of reruns switched back to Westwood, which would support this hypothesis.

I guess one could say Ocean were still editing Funimation's dub of Dragon Ball Z broadcast on YTV but reading the CRTC's guidelines it appears creating a Canadian-exclusive TV cut doesn't count:

Repackaged or adapted versions of existing foreign productions or program segments and productions made up predominantly of existing footage produced by a foreign producer, even if assembled or edited in Canada, with Canadian narration, are also ineligible for certification.

I don't blame people for believing the information disseminated online about the Westwood dub, I believed it myself for many years. Its just a shame a lot of the sources are gone because the webmasters of the old Ocean dub fansites didn't care enough to keep it around.

If you are reading Dark Vegeta-Sama we would appreciate anything you saved from UKDB back in the day .

[M16U3L2015]

Is there a particular aspect to them you would like to read about?

Mostly the technical aspects, which was what Toei gave them to work with, the producers they worked with in their early days, and the writers of the ADR scripts.

And the dialogue differences that Funimation has made over the years.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

The English Dubbing Wiki

The dubbing wiki is good for a general overview of the English dubs, although for the Canadian dubs a lot of misinformation tends to make the rounds there.

The Westwood dub for example was not made to meet Canadian content quotas, and AB Groupe only distributed it within Europe. Remember the first 167 episodes of Dragon Ball Z aired on YTV with Funimation's dub (1-53 Saban and 54-167 inhouse) so for the majority of its run on Canadian TV the dub was strictly an American production. We also know AB had no more involvement besides selling the Westwood dub to TV stations because their logo only appeared at the end of the credits in European broadcasts but never in Canada.

I don't blame people for believing what is often written about the Westwood dub though, I did for years. Sadly Duncan Roberts and the rest of the crew who ran UKDB in 2000-2003 didn't keep the site going and a lot of their research became lost to time. Apparently they left the fandom because they were so disappointed when Ocean dropped the Vancouver actors and went with the Calgary cast for GT and original Dragon Ball, which was a shame because those dubs weren't that bad, and information about their production was quite hard to find.

Having been there at the time, yes, that is what happened. We all stopped caring. It was a major step down in vocal quality very similar to FUNimation's season 3 fiasco. It was especially infuriating given that contracts were actually signed for the Vancouver actors to dub DBGT (if I recall correctly, Michael Dobson had been cast in 4 roles, for example) only for those contracts to be terminated without notice and for the show to then be shipped off to Calgary on the cheap.

Regardless of the improved accuracy of the Blue Water dubs in terms of dialogue, title cards, original music, and what have you, for us the enthusiasm was gone with such a severe step down in vocal quality. It's not a trade-off we were in agreement with and our fandom and dedication died along with it.

I understand (especially with the distance of time) that the Westwood dub of DBZ was far from perfect, but for the most part the performances were preferable to the alternative at the time.

The dubbing wiki is good for a general overview of the English dubs, although for the Canadian dubs a lot of misinformation tends to make the rounds there.

Oh. Yeah, I am checking it and you're right. The Canadian content wasn't a factor for the dub's production.

The most likely explanation for the Westwood dub's existence has always been that Funimation's dub was likely too expensive to license long term. CNX aired the Fusion saga with Funimation's dub in the UK and Ireland but then after a certain number of reruns switched back to Westwood, which would support this hypothesis.

I guess one could say Ocean were still editing Funimation's dub of Dragon Ball Z broadcast on YTV but reading the CRTC's guidelines it appears creating a Canadian-exclusive TV cut doesn't count:

Repackaged or adapted versions of existing foreign productions or program segments and productions made up predominantly of existing footage produced by a foreign producer, even if assembled or edited in Canada, with Canadian narration, are also ineligible for certification.

I don't blame people for believing the information disseminated online about the Westwood dub, I believed it myself for many years. Its just a shame a lot of the sources are gone because the webmasters of the old Ocean dub fansites didn't care enough to keep it around.

If you are reading Dark Vegeta-Sama we would appreciate anything you saved from UKDB back in the day .

I probably have some material that I've forgotten about. It's been 20 years so life has gotten in the way, but I know I never got rid of anything.

Is there a particular area of focus you'd be most interested in?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I probably have some material that I've forgotten about. It's been 20 years so life has gotten in the way, but I know I never got rid of anything.

Is there a particular area of focus you'd be most interested in?

Oh hey, thanks for posting, Ocean fans like myself have missed your wisdom .

I've saved everything from the UKDB and Ocean-DB sites that is still available on the Wayback Machine so anything else you could share with information about the production of the Canadian dubs or Dragon Ball in the UK would be great.

Do you have anything which confirms definitively when CNX switched back from the Funimation dub to the Westwood dub? That's been a big debate for many years.

Also, is there any documentation that validates the claim YTV switched to the Westwood dub because they were sick of getting tapes too late from Funimation or anything else regarding that relationship?

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

I probably have some material that I've forgotten about. It's been 20 years so life has gotten in the way, but I know I never got rid of anything.

Is there a particular area of focus you'd be most interested in?

Oh hey, thanks for posting, Ocean fans like myself have missed your wisdom .

I've saved everything from the UKDB and Ocean-DB sites that is still available on the Wayback Machine so anything else you could share with information about the production of the Canadian dubs or Dragon Ball in the UK would be great.

Do you have anything which confirms definitively when CNX switched back from the Funimation dub to the Westwood dub? That's been a big debate for many years.

https://web.archive.org/web/20030206101 ... db.net:80/

The update from Friday, January 24th, 2003:

International Distribution.
Posted: Friday, January 24, 2003 at 14:12 by Duncan
My little brother was watching TV yesterday, and I heard him proclaim that "Super Buu sounded funny". As I walked into the room, the unmistakable sound of Michael Dobson filled my ears. No more Justin Cook, no more UNGH, no more horrible nasal grunts, no more SHITTY TECHNO FILTH.

Unless somebody at CNX fucked up, the Canadian dub is back.

Unfortunately, the exact episode isn't specified, but it would seem to be whatever episode aired on Thursday, January 23rd, 2003.

From what I remember from back then, Duncan told me it was A) a re-broadcast of an episode that CNX had already aired the FUNimation dub of, and B) it was around the time of the Gotenks vs. Super Buu fight in the Room of Spirit and Time.

Once the Westwood dub returned, the FUNimation dub was never broadcast again on CNX, but unlike other networks like YTV and Yorin, they actually did air both dubbed versions of the same episodes. I'm not sure if they aired all of the Westwood episodes since 239 that they'd missed, but they did air at least some of them.

If you have information on reruns airing around that time, we could probably piece it together.

Also, is there any documentation that validates the claim YTV switched to the Westwood dub because they were sick of getting tapes too late from Funimation or anything else regarding that relationship?

I don't remember if I have anything definitive about the tape delays, but I definitely read it in more than one place at the time. Anecdotally speaking, for season 4, YTV was only provided up until episode 167 and then abruptly had to go back to reruns in the spring of 2001 while Cartoon Network received up until episode 179, and that had never happened before. YTV was, at the very least, short-changed by not being provided those final 12 episodes of the Cell Games by FUNimation. The Canadian dub was also a cheaper alternative (FUNimation was known for charging an exorbitant amount of money for their dub), so regardless of the tape delay situation being the definitive answer or not, in hindsight it makes sense why YTV made the switch. The show now meeting Cancon requirements was just an additional bonus.

Addressing your question more broadly, I definitely have information suggesting that people sent YTV complaints about the voice changes in season 3 back in the day, but I'll get back to you on that at a later date.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

https://web.archive.org/web/20030206101 ... db.net:80/

The update from Friday, January 24th, 2003:

International Distribution.
Posted: Friday, January 24, 2003 at 14:12 by Duncan
My little brother was watching TV yesterday, and I heard him proclaim that "Super Buu sounded funny". As I walked into the room, the unmistakable sound of Michael Dobson filled my ears. No more Justin Cook, no more UNGH, no more horrible nasal grunts, no more SHITTY TECHNO FILTH.

Unless somebody at CNX fucked up, the Canadian dub is back.

Unfortunately, the exact episode isn't specified, but it would seem to be whatever episode aired on Thursday, January 23rd, 2003.

From what I remember from back then, Duncan told me it was A) a re-broadcast of an episode that CNX had already aired the FUNimation dub of, and B) it was around the time of the Gotenks vs. Super Buu fight in the Room of Spirit and Time.

Once the Westwood dub returned, the FUNimation dub was never broadcast again on CNX, but unlike other networks like YTV and Yorin, they actually did air both dubbed versions of the same episodes. I'm not sure if they aired all of the Westwood episodes since 239 that they'd missed, but they did air at least some of them.

If you have information on reruns airing around that time, we could probably piece it together.

Oh thanks, don't know how I missed that post, but it does line up with what DBZImran said about the Fusion saga recently, which was that it returned in January or February 2003 with the Westwood dub (likely the former because the Kid Buu saga premiered February 7th that year).

90sDBZ's memory is usually quite good on this, but from what he's said the Fusion saga aired at least 2 and a half times with Funimation's dub and it switched back to Westwood on the episode Gotenks defused against Super Buu, which would be Z episode 247/262 Unlucky Break.

The Fusion saga premiered on CNX between October 14, 2002 and wrapped up its first run on November 13th that year. Sadly I don't recall what episodes were rerun between that point and January 23rd, but assuming it was 2 and a half runs of the Fusion saga with the Funimation dub there must have been a break after the saga's second run before it returned for its third run.

There have been posters here who recall the Funimation Fusion saga episodes airing in the morning and midday slots with the Westwood episodes airing in later timeslots, but I can't confirm as I didn't get to see the episodes before school (and obviously not during school) so that may always remain a mystery.

I do remember that once the Westwood dub returned CNX and the Toonami channel that followed never aired the Funimation Fusion saga again. I wish I could recall whether the entire Westwood Fusion saga was shown on CNX, but I'm sure I watched it all on Toonami. The entire Westwood dub was ultimately shown in the UK and Ireland though.

I don't remember if I have anything definitive about the tape delays, but I definitely read it in more than one place at the time. Anecdotally speaking, for season 4, YTV was only provided up until episode 167 and then abruptly had to go back to reruns in the spring of 2001 while Cartoon Network received up until episode 179, and that had never happened before. YTV was, at the very least, short-changed by not being provided those final 12 episodes of the Cell Games by FUNimation. The Canadian dub was also a cheaper alternative (FUNimation was known for charging an exorbitant amount of money for their dub), so regardless of the tape delay situation being the definitive answer or not, in hindsight it makes sense why YTV made the switch. The show now meeting Cancon requirements was just an additional bonus.

Addressing your question more broadly, I definitely have information suggesting that people sent YTV complaints about the voice changes in season 3 back in the day, but I'll get back to you on that at a later date.

Yes! I do remember you mentioning YTV didn't get the last 12 episodes of Season 4. The claim this was the reason YTV switched over to the Westwood dub has been regurgitated on forums for about 20 years now (hell I've done it myself), but I don't recall whether an official source ever confirmed or if its just conjecture.

Apparently YTV had bumpers, which said things like "we have now received the new DBZ tapes and will begin airing them shortly!", which may have contributed to it.

If you could share anything about YTV receiving complaints about the voice change that would be great too. I have always wondered about the rumour the Westwood dub went into production partly because of criticisms of Funimation's dub.

If there is truth to it these criticisms would have had to come from Canada because Brian Drummond was first asked to return to play Vegeta in May 2000, which was when only the first 26 episodes of Dragon Ball Z aired in the UK and Ireland and the Netherlands didn't get the show until August.