How would you adapt the name "Kaio" if East Kaio is female?

[TechExpert2021]

The name "Kaio" is difficult for me to adapt to a name that doesn't sound awkward or inconsistent since East Kaio is female. I could assume that the "ou" ("王") part of "Kaio" is gender-neutral, right?

[M16U3L2015]

From what I understood, the kanji "王" is usually masculine, the kanji "女" is added if you are talking about a queen regent, although sometimes it is also omitted.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%8E%8B

[Alruneia]

If you're going the Funimation route, it's okay if you just use Queen Kai instead of King Kai, really. Unless you really need the ambiguity for something. In that case, you can take some liberties and say something along the lines of "Venerable Kai". That or something like "World Overseer" I guess.
Otherwise, you could also always just stick to Kaio, leave it untranslated. It's pretty male-coded in Japanese, but not exclusively so, as the link M16U3L2015 posted shows. If you don't translate it as you move to the other language you're working with, then the word "Kaio" in itself can become a unique title that can be as gender neutral as you need, I think.

[MasenkoHA]

Monarch of Worlds would be fine to keep it gender neutral.


王 isn't really necessarily male-coded which is why female Kaio can exist.

Clyde Mandelin has gone through this on his site and mentioned examples of Mao 魔王 and Shitenno 四天王 being female (or including female members in the case of Shitenno)

[Majin Buu]

Otherwise, you could also always just stick to Kaio, leave it untranslated.

This. An approach that provides a valid excuse to side-step the question altogether.

"King Kai" is already only a partial translation anyway.

[GhostEmperorX]

This. An approach that provides a valid excuse to side-step the question altogether.

"King Kai" is already only a partial translation anyway.

Not to mention in the completely wrong order.
(Granted this might not be the case if "Kai" were a proper name, which it isn't.)

[MasenkoHA]

This. An approach that provides a valid excuse to side-step the question altogether.

"King Kai" is already only a partial translation anyway.

Not to mention in the completely wrong order.
(Granted this might not be the case if "Kai" were a proper name, which it isn't.)

Kai King would have sounded awkward. I sort of get Funimation's logic in half translating it. They wanted to give him a name instead of a title and just elected to translate the O in his name to show his status as a higher being. It's just obvious Funimation didn't know or care it would later be revealed their would he multiple Kaio and female Kaio can exist (granted Goku assuming Snake Princess was Kaio should have been the first hint it was a gender neutral title) . It's obvious they should have left it as Kaio (and also address that he's a deity that stands above planetary Kami, something they sidestepped until the Boo Saga forced them to address it) but for a start up company that can't be bothered to check for material ahead and is on a learning curve I get the King Kai localization.

[GhostEmperorX]

for a start up company that can't be bothered to check for material ahead and is on a learning curve I get the King Kai localization.

Funny thing I've noticed is even more professional companies (which in the present day tends to include them a lot of the time) tend to make similar choices that end up missing the point in some way or the other, probably because of production deadlines or a lack of due diligence in properly understanding what they're trying to translate. Still happens with some series as recent as 2021.

[Zephyr]

Monarch of Worlds would be fine to keep it gender neutral.

I guess this is how I'd do it if I had to translate it. But I think it's kind of a clunky mouthful to the point I'd kinda rather it just remain untranslated. Just treat it like a loanword that Toriyama coined. I'd probably opt for a similar approach with Makankosappo.

[Adamant]

Monarch of Worlds would be fine to keep it gender neutral.


王 isn't really necessarily male-coded which is why female Kaio can exist.

Clyde Mandelin has gone through this on his site and mentioned examples of Mao 魔王 and Shitenno 四天王 being female (or including female members in the case of Shitenno)

Yeah, Japanese doesn't have a separate word meaning "queen", it's just 女王. Literally "woman-king", a king that's a woman.

[MasenkoHA]

Monarch of Worlds would be fine to keep it gender neutral.

I guess this is how I'd do it if I had to translate it. But I think it's kind of a clunky mouthful to the point I'd kinda rather it just remain untranslated. Just treat it like a loanword that Toriyama coined. I'd probably opt for a similar approach with Makankosappo.

Yeah, it's definitely clunky and would be awkward to have characters constantly refer to Kaio as such. Kaio is more concise and feels right as both a name and title.

For all the complaints some fans give Steve Simmons about "being too literal" in his translations, I think he had a good handle of when to leave something as is (Nyoibo, Kinto Un, Kaio, Daimao, all attack names) and when it needed to be translated or localized for simplicity. Conversely the Viz translation of the manga felt the need to translate/localize everything.

[Kamiccolo9]

Doesn't Shin use an untranslated "Daikaioh" to refer to the Grand Kaioshin in the Funi dub? I know they use that in the Buu's Fury GBA game.

[MasenkoHA]

Doesn't Shin use an untranslated "Daikaioh" to refer to the Grand Kaioshin in the Funi dub? I know they use that in the Buu's Fury GBA game.

They did which isn't even correct as Dai Kaioh would be The Grand Kai. I believe they fixed it in Dragon Ball Z Kai and call him Grand Supreme Kai

They did something similar in the Cell Games where Cell uses Frieza's final technique on Namek and calls it "Kienzan"

[Majin Buu]

It's obvious they should have left it as Kaio (and also address that he's a deity that stands above planetary Kami, something they sidestepped until the Boo Saga forced them to address it)

Hell, the mere fact that these characters are deities is something Funi danced around acknowledging for the longest time.

[MasenkoHA]

It's obvious they should have left it as Kaio (and also address that he's a deity that stands above planetary Kami, something they sidestepped until the Boo Saga forced them to address it)

Hell, the mere fact that these characters are deities is something Funi danced around acknowledging for the longest time.

Right, without the Japanese version or manga to piggyback off you would have no reason to think King Kai is anything other than a martial arts master from the Next Dimension/Other World. It's not until the Buu saga where the hierarchy of the Kaios comes into play that Funimation has to even kind of touch upon the deity thing.

[Thouser]

Kai King would have sounded awkward. I sort of get Funimation's logic in half translating it. They wanted to give him a name instead of a title and just elected to translate the O in his name to show his status as a higher being. It's just obvious Funimation didn't know or care it would later be revealed their would he multiple Kaio and female Kaio can exist (granted Goku assuming Snake Princess was Kaio should have been the first hint it was a gender neutral title) . It's obvious they should have left it as Kaio (and also address that he's a deity that stands above planetary Kami, something they sidestepped until the Boo Saga forced them to address it) but for a start up company that can't be bothered to check for material ahead and is on a learning curve I get the King Kai localization.

In response to Funimation coming up with the “King Kai” name: I don’t know if it’s just a coincidence or if maybe it was Toei themselves who came up with “King Kai” as a translation, but in Hong Kong, TVB Pearl’s late night trilingual broadcasts of Z in the ‘90s (Japanese audio, Chinese and English subtitles) used “King Kai”.

https://imgur.com/a/8c5wYAm

I don’t know exactly when these episodes aired, though.

[MasenkoHA]

Kai King would have sounded awkward. I sort of get Funimation's logic in half translating it. They wanted to give him a name instead of a title and just elected to translate the O in his name to show his status as a higher being. It's just obvious Funimation didn't know or care it would later be revealed their would he multiple Kaio and female Kaio can exist (granted Goku assuming Snake Princess was Kaio should have been the first hint it was a gender neutral title) . It's obvious they should have left it as Kaio (and also address that he's a deity that stands above planetary Kami, something they sidestepped until the Boo Saga forced them to address it) but for a start up company that can't be bothered to check for material ahead and is on a learning curve I get the King Kai localization.

In response to Funimation coming up with the “King Kai” name: I don’t know if it’s just a coincidence or if maybe it was Toei themselves who came up with “King Kai” as a translation, but in Hong Kong, TVB Pearl’s late night trilingual broadcasts of Z in the ‘90s (Japanese audio, Chinese and English subtitles) used “King Kai”.

https://imgur.com/a/8c5wYAm

I don’t know exactly when these episodes aired, though.

Interesting.

Honestly, it's entirely possible the use of King Kai in Funimation's dub came from Toei's Engrish translations in the first place.

[Majin Buu]

This might be a situation that calls for incorporating both the original Japanese word and a translation.

Have Kaio introduce himself to Goku with something like "I am Kaio- the King of Worlds."

That way, when the rest of the Kaio are introduced later, the female one can be introduced with something like "That's the Queen of the Eastern Worlds- East Kaio."

That way, the gender neutral "Kaio" is what they're commonly referred to as, with "King/Queen of Worlds" being reserved for certain lines of dialogue where it would be relevant to state that like "I'm only the King of the Northern Worlds so that task is outside my jurisdiction".