What not start fresh with Dragon Ball?

[TheMikado]

Daima is feeling like an attempt to restart Dragonball using the same characters.

Why even bother using the say characters at this point? You have multiple universes and timelines. Why not start a new series with a completely new cast and similar premise? That would probably be significantly more fun than making kid versions of old characters.

[90sDBZ]

Because Dragon Ball is ultimately Goku's story, and it would be near impossible to create a character good enough to fill his shoes.

If they were going to start fresh with new characters, you could argue that it might as well be a new IP, and not Dragon Ball.

Something like Star Wars can pull it off, but DB is so synonymous with Goku that people just wouldn't be interested without him in it.

[JulieYBM]

Producers are more considered with money than approaching creative talent and asking them what kind of story they want to tell.

[Hellspawn28]

They could have done a timeline reset if they wanted too. I remember rumors of the worst wish in DBZ Movie 15 was going to a universal reset, but it end up with Freeza coming back. Not sure how fans would feel if they pull of a MK1 by resetting everything in a new universe.

[JulieYBM]

They'll do whatever they think they can make them money and not harm the perception of the franchise. Right now, they're trying to avoid doing a new adaption of the original 1984 comic because Nozawa Masako and the rest of the cast are still alive and regularly working on the series. They'll probably wait for the next anniversary to reconsider doing a second adaption of the original comic series.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Producers are more considered with money than approaching creative talent and asking them what kind of story they want to tell.

This, Dragon Ball without Goku is considered too much of a risk, as 90sDBZ said the franchise is so synonymous with him that the powers that be aren't going to try do something new long term with a new face. At best we get one-offs like Jaco The Galactic Patrolman, That Time I Got Reincarnated As Yamcha or even History of Trunks and Bardock: The Father of Goku back in the day, although you could argue the latter ties directly in to Goku's story so maybe not the best example.

I'm conflicted because I find it hard to separate the Dragon World from Goku, but at the same time I love Dragon Ball so much I never really want it to end. That said Goku's story can't go on forever, and I'm not even talking about whether or not a suitable replacement for Masako Nozawa could ever be found, but there's only so much you can tell for one character's story.

[SupremeKai25]

Because these long-running franchises survive off of nostalgia. When most of your viewer-base consists of people in their 30s or 40s trying to relive their distant childhood, why would you try to create a new cast of characters or villains?

Just rehash the Broly movie or the Cell saga with the same exact cast of characters and plot points. It's free money, lol!

Look at Super. There are so many new characters, and yet so many plot points are straight-up recycled from Z. Vegito (literal fan-service with the same exact clothes as Z), Vegeta's sacrifice against Toppo, the time travel plot with Future Trunks warning about a dark new enemy from the Future, Goku giving a senzu bean to his enemy, the very existence of Gohan Beast... I mean, need I go on or did my point get across?

With this fandom, there's no incentive to try out new things.

[MasenkoHA]

Better question, why not watch something else?

Sorry, I'll never understand the appeal of "the same thing but different characters" it would be even more random for Dragon Ball. At least with something like Yu-gi-oh the understanding is "the story is over but we still have a trading card game to promote so new story new characters". What exactly would be the reason to do Dragon Ball without Goku and company?

[GhostEmperorX]

It's not Gundam, Super Sentai, Ultraman, Kamen Rider, Precure, etc where a different cast every so often from the ground up would work.
It's also not the same as other works that get constantly rebooted with more or less the same cast and a few small differences in events here & there.
And it probably wouldn't work if it were treated the same way as some of its contemporary manga franchises that got different revivals to varying degrees either.

[Xeogran]

Spoiler:

Worth nothing that DBO tried it (well, Future Trunks was there but more as a guide.) Your character lived in the world post Goku era and overall met new characters (besides time travel to experience DB events.)

[JulieYBM]

Better question, why not watch something else?

Sorry, I'll never understand the appeal of "the same thing but different characters" it would be even more random for Dragon Ball. At least with something like Yu-gi-oh the understanding is "the story is over but we still have a trading card game to promote so new story new characters". What exactly would be the reason to do Dragon Ball without Goku and company?

Eh, same reason why Pokemon got a new protagonist: you can start from zero and not 'upset' fans of the past. Personally, I think it's more than easy enough to just create a new character to follow, but I also think that Dragon Ball fans need to watch stuff other than Dragon Ball.

This applies to western geeks in general, though.

[TheMikado]

Better question, why not watch something else?

Sorry, I'll never understand the appeal of "the same thing but different characters" it would be even more random for Dragon Ball. At least with something like Yu-gi-oh the understanding is "the story is over but we still have a trading card game to promote so new story new characters". What exactly would be the reason to do Dragon Ball without Goku and company?

Because I like the lore and most of the recent lore, although I generally hate it is only half explored. I’d be open to looking more into other aspects of the lore just like Star Wars cycling around the same locations and characters is just mostly awful. One of the most critically acclaimed Star Wars series is Andor, a show that doesn’t have a single Skywalker in it.

[Grimlock]

So you want Dragon Ball to start anew (something people refuse) because you like the lore (something people loathe)? You may be the biggest sinner in this "fandom". Props for the boldness, though.

Anyway, I don't think we need a new cast when Uub is right there for the much needed "restart". The "next generation" can very well do the role just fine.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

With Star Wars it helped that arguably the most iconic character was the villain (Darth Vader). The prequels may have ultimately let down a lot of fans, but for many years the idea of exploring the story of a jedi that went down the dark path had a lot of promise. Dragon Ball's most iconic villain (Freeza) doesn't have a heroic backstory to test the waters exploring how he came to be who he is.

There are possibly other routes Dragon Ball can go to segue into telling stories that follow a different main protagonist, it would take ambition and approval from the powers that be, but I wouldn't ever rule it out.

[MasenkoHA]

Better question, why not watch something else?

Sorry, I'll never understand the appeal of "the same thing but different characters" it would be even more random for Dragon Ball. At least with something like Yu-gi-oh the understanding is "the story is over but we still have a trading card game to promote so new story new characters". What exactly would be the reason to do Dragon Ball without Goku and company?

Eh, same reason why Pokemon got a new protagonist: you can start from zero and not 'upset' fans of the past. Personally, I think it's more than easy enough to just create a new character to follow, but I also think that Dragon Ball fans need to watch stuff other than Dragon Ball.

This applies to western geeks in general, though.

With Pokemon there's the justifiable "the series primarily exist to promote video games, trading cards, etc" from a commercial standpoint the collectible monsters kind of matter more than who's headlining the show

Honestly the decision to replace Satoshi after 25 years seems more like "why even bother at this point?" from what I understand and what little I've seen of the show post-Johto they probably should have replaced him after the Diamond and Pearl series anyways.


There's also the fact that I don't think Dragon Ball's "lore" is interesting or unique enough to sustain a series with an entirely new cast. Most of the lore is either Toriyama taking short cuts to make his job easier or a hodgepodge of pop culture, Eastern religion, and wuxia tropes. Meaning you can find a lot of that stuff elsewhere if you need your Dragon Ball fix but burned out by Goku and the gang.

And yes, people should also consume media that isn't just Dragon Ball adjacent

[Luso Saiyan]

So you want Dragon Ball to start anew (something people refuse) because you like the lore (something people loathe)? You may be the biggest sinner in this "fandom". Props for the boldness, though.

Who said people loathe the lore?

[JulieYBM]

Better question, why not watch something else?

Sorry, I'll never understand the appeal of "the same thing but different characters" it would be even more random for Dragon Ball. At least with something like Yu-gi-oh the understanding is "the story is over but we still have a trading card game to promote so new story new characters". What exactly would be the reason to do Dragon Ball without Goku and company?

Eh, same reason why Pokemon got a new protagonist: you can start from zero and not 'upset' fans of the past. Personally, I think it's more than easy enough to just create a new character to follow, but I also think that Dragon Ball fans need to watch stuff other than Dragon Ball.

This applies to western geeks in general, though.

With Pokemon there's the justifiable "the series primarily exist to promote video games, trading cards, etc" from a commercial standpoint the collectible monsters kind of matter more than who's headlining the show

Honestly the decision to replace Satoshi after 25 years seems more like "why even bother at this point?" from what I understand and what little I've seen of the show post-Johto they probably should have replaced him after the Diamond and Pearl series anyways.


There's also the fact that I don't think Dragon Ball's "lore" is interesting or unique enough to sustain a series with an entirely new cast. Most of the lore is either Toriyama taking short cuts to make his job easier or a hodgepodge of pop culture, Eastern religion, and wuxia tropes. Meaning you can find a lot of that stuff elsewhere if you need your Dragon Ball fix but burned out by Goku and the gang.

And yes, people should also consume media that isn't just Dragon Ball adjacent

Dragon Ball definitely has less in the way of built-in legacy to work with, for sure. Like, you can want to be a Saiyan or Namekian or whatever, but you'll still need to build something onto the series to justify a sort of Yuugi-Ou!-esque "next generation" element, less you actually just do Pan as that next generation element.

But yeah, with Pokemon, the anime did kind kind of start changing after Diamond & Pearl. In addition to all of the music from previous series no longer being used they also stopped making the first episode of the new series be built off of the last pisode of the previous series. Best Wishes and onward were much more cleaner cuts and referenced the previous series less. Satoshi was specifically written in Best Wishes to be less skilled and more forgetful, and it took until over a hundred episodes for the series to reference his older Pokemon that he left back in Masara Town.

I think that was done two fold: as opposed to as in AG and DP, Iris did not partake in Pokemon Contests. Unlike Haruka and Hikari—rookie trainers just setting out—Iris wasn’t there to be the audience surrogate and didn’t even have her own Pokemon Zukan to give exposition to the audience. This was reverted for Serena in XY, though.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that Satoshi really is just a self-insert for the audience, so he could have been replaced whenever—putting aside his international popularity and synonymousness with the franchise.

Apparently, he was finally replaced with Liko because the production committee was trying to balance concerns from the production staff, popularity and fear of Matsumoto Rika eventually passing away from old age.

Makes me wonder what kind of conversations are going on behind the scenes for Dragon Ball these days.

[Makaioshin]

If you want Dragon Ball but without Goku or any of the characters we know I would suggest reading some of Toriyama's others works, particularly his post DB-manga like Kajika or Sand Land as they have a similar kind of action. Sand Land even has a new show that expands the story with some input from Toriyama.

[Hellspawn28]

Better question, why not watch something else?

Sorry, I'll never understand the appeal of "the same thing but different characters" it would be even more random for Dragon Ball. At least with something like Yu-gi-oh the understanding is "the story is over but we still have a trading card game to promote so new story new characters". What exactly would be the reason to do Dragon Ball without Goku and company?

Yeah, this is why I think that we never got a GT sequel with Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. because of it. You would have a show without 99% of the cast back besides Pan and Goku (maybe Roshi). People would have hated it.

[Kunzait_83]

Yeah, this is why I think that we never got a GT sequel with Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. because of it. You would have a show without 99% of the cast back besides Pan and Goku (maybe Roshi). People would have hated it.

We sort of did get that with the GT TV special that starred Goku Jr. And to your point, up until the revival came and brought stuff like DB Minus, Episode of Bardock, and DB Heroes and so on, I had generally used to consider the GT TV special to be the single worst piece of DB anime that Toei had ever produced.

but I also think that Dragon Ball fans need to watch stuff other than Dragon Ball.

Broken record here, but I think this really needs to be amended to "Shonen fans need to watch stuff other than Shonen". i.e. "Grow the fuck up and watch stuff other than children's cartoons."

Plenty of Dragon Ball fans 'round here watch stuff other than Dragon Ball: its just typically stuff like Naruto, One Piece, Hunter X Hunter, My Hero Academia, etc. and not much else besides that.

Even if we restrict ourselves solely within the realm of Japanese anime, its been more than apparent that there has long been a TON of "Western geeks" who sincerely and genuinely do not realize or understand that they have other options for anime that exist COMPLETELY outside of either Shonen or Shojo.

Exploring non-Shonen and non-Shojo anime and manga alone is at least good place to start from. From there, its just a matter of also understanding that even outside the realm of anime or animation in general, there is still a rich, wondrous world of non-animated media that isn't in any way for children or "all ages" that is beyond worth exploring in full as well.

The old idea of what was known as the "Animation Age Ghetto" was the idea that studios and the general public had that "because something is animated must mean it also has to be inherently for kids". This used to make people (rightly) mad back in the day because it both A) completely ignored the copious amounts of animation that has long existed that was targeted mainly at adults and B) it put an arbitrary and needless restriction on mainstream Western animation that it had to overwhelmingly remain restricted to being aimed at children. Both of which were needlessly stiflingly limiting for animation as an art form/creative medium.

However I think for the better part of the last 20+ years or so, there's been something of a new, completely self-imposed Animation Age Ghetto, where geeks restrict themselves solely (or near-solely) to children's cartoons and children's media in general with little to no curiosity or desire to acknowledge or explore very much of any adult-oriented media outside of children's animation. Its a weird kind of self-directed inversion of the old Animation Age Ghetto, almost a kind of bizarre Stockholm Syndrome that a lot of people (largely Millennials, but even a fair amount of Gen Z's) have fallen into in the last couple decades or so.

It HAS gotten a fair bit better in recent years, there's been significantly more pushback against this from largely other Gen Z'ers (and certainly more than a fair few Millennials as well) than there ever used to be during the worst of it in the latter half of the 2000s/earlymost 2010s. But its still definitely a thing that's still ongoing in large swathes of the broader nerd culture.

I think though that we sort of need to re-evaluate and amend the definitions of terms like Animation Age Ghetto and whatnot to reflect how much the whole attitudes around children's animation have significantly changed throughout the last 20 years. Where animation for children has gone from being seen as a stigma that was holding animation back from growing as an art form to being seen as the only thing that's generally worth exploring, focusing on, or discussing (to the exclusion of most everything else) among large swathes of fans/geeks in general.

But yeah, DB fans should obviously watch stuff other than DB, but I think the bigger point that's inextricably tied to that is that the slice of Western nerd culture that has still needlessly chained itself largely to children's cartoons and media (and a LARGE portion of Western DB fandom certainly falls square within that basket) needs to be encouraged to escape from that incredibly narrow and stiflingly limiting little box that they've trapped themselves inside for all these years for no particularly good reason.