Why is there (or actually is there...?) so much toxic fanon in the Dragon Ball fandom?

[Shintoki]

It’s honestly getting out of hand how many toxic fans you encounter who cling to their own fanon interpretations, even when the canon slaps them right in the face with clear, irrefutable evidence. You get into these heated discussions, and instead of having a logical back-and-forth, facts just get tossed aside like they don’t even matter. People cherry-pick arguments or dig their heels in because they just can’t admit they’re wrong. I ran into this recently with someone who kept arguing that their fanon is not fan conjured because they cite it from the “GT canon.” This was after I presented actual references from the original manga, But nope, none of that matters. They dismissed the source material like it was spin off from a different continuity, and ignored all of its materials which doesn't fit them and kept doubling down on their own twisted headcanon. It’s ridiculous to watch.

What makes these conversations even worse is the outright hostility that comes up when canon doesn’t align with their little world. Instead of appreciating what the material actually is, they warp it into something that fits their narrative, held together with nothing but poor logic and convoluted power scaling straight out of fanfiction. In this case, every piece of evidence I presented was deflected with smug nonsense like "I don’t care about that since it's a different continuity" or "That’s irrelevant to my continuity." It wasn’t a discussion; it was more like a fruitless exercise where I was trying to have a rational conversation with someone who refused to even engage with the original panels. It’s frustrating and honestly highlights a bigger issue in fandoms now, people are so attached to their self-made stories that they can’t even be bothered to engage with the actual source material in good faith.

[MasenkoHA]

I'm confused.

Like the person you're arguing with is right that if they pulled something from Dragon Ball GT that's not fanon. That's an actual officially created Dragon Ball cartoon that Toriyama approved even though his creative input ended at naming it and some character designs.

I dunno your complaint just feels very broad and vague. Maybe if you were more specific but it just comes off like "I don't like that someone likes Dragon Ball GT"

[AliTheZombie13]

The "GT canon" or "GT continuity" or whatever you want to call it is perfectly valid to use as reference if you're discussing, say, Super Saiyan 4 or events from GT. Saying "I don't care about that, because it's not from my continuity!" is also a perfectly valid argument to use if, again, you're discussing about things from GT.

I'm sorry, but what was actually being discussed and what argument was being made here?

[Cold Skin]

From what I understand, it's about someone saying "since GT said/showed it was this way, then the original manga by Toriyama himself is wrong" and that's what rubs the poster the wrong way.

Basically a fan saying "GT is what dictates what's officially the only truth, not the manga, not the other anime series either, they're all wrong and GT is the only thing saying/showing what is true in the DB lore".

[AliTheZombie13]

From what I understand, it's about someone saying "since GT said/showed it was this way, then the original manga by Toriyama himself is wrong" and that's what rubs the poster the wrong way.

Basically a fan saying "GT is what dictates what's officially the only truth, not the manga, not the other anime series either, they're all wrong and GT is the only thing saying/showing what is true in the DB lore".

What makes me raise an eyebrow here is that OP says the person they were arguing against claimed, "I don't care about that, it's not from my continuity!" Which... again... is a perfectly valid counterargument if you're discussing GT and GT specifically.

So uh... Are they talking about GT, specifically? Is OP trying to argue for the millionth time that "GT can't be canon because this and this happened in Super/the manga!" or some nonsense like that? Without knowing the context, I can't say for sure.

[Shaddy]

Because Dragon Ball fandom is already toxic in every other respect.

[Shintoki]

From what I understand, it's about someone saying "since GT said/showed it was this way, then the original manga by Toriyama himself is wrong" and that's what rubs the poster the wrong way.

Basically a fan saying "GT is what dictates what's officially the only truth, not the manga, not the other anime series either, they're all wrong and GT is the only thing saying/showing what is true in the DB lore".

Yep, pretty much this. you got it

-snip-".

What makes me raise an eyebrow here is that OP says the person they were arguing against claimed, "I don't care about that, it's not from my continuity!" Which... again... is a perfectly valid counterargument if you're discussing GT and GT specifically.

So uh... Are they talking about GT, specifically? Is OP trying to argue for the millionth time that "GT can't be canon because this and this happened in Super/the manga!" or some nonsense like that? Without knowing the context, I can't say for sure.

In the context of the conversation that sparked this thread, it was about someone who kept arguing that Kid Buu is the strongest because the filler lines in DBZ are, by their own words, canon to GT. Thus, they claimed that Buuhan is not the strongest character which i suspect was motivated by goku's rildo comparison to boo, even though I tried to explain to them that these lines were errors by Toei, didn’t exist in the manga, and contradicted the primary narrative which the toei's continuity abides by no matter how contradicatory it gets since it's the primary narrative. However, they didn’t care and just kept rambling about how all the movies and filler are canon to GT, so the manga doesn’t matter. It was really frustrating to see that conversation unfold.

if detesting powerscalers for ruining productive convos wasn't enough, hhhhhh

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Because GT not being written by Toriyama makes it lesser when it comes to official licensed content in the eyes of some fans. Debates become toxic when fans take it to the extremes they do, but it's never necessary.

Ironically though, Super becoming the new hotness and having Toriyama's name attached did lead fans to re-evaluate GT and see it in a different light. I think the fact it has been seen more positively in recent years just shows those fans that callously disregard it on the basis of being non-canon were a vocal minority that don't represent how Dragon Ball fans as a whole felt about GT all along.

It's really not worth having these kind of arguments because TOEI never expected fans to look so much into what is and isn't canon, as GT was created for the same reason all the other TV anime (and movies for that matter) were - to entertain people, specifically young boys.

[FinalForumPodcast]

My thoughts on canon in Dragon Ball are that the instant you start talking about anything that's outside the purview of the 519 chapters of the manga as written by Toriyama, it's non-canon and it's all equally valid and invalid. I enjoy too much of the stuff outside what was originally written by Toriyama to just outright dismiss anyone's enjoyment of any aspect as "non-canon." The canon label in Dragon Ball borders on meaningless.

[AliTheZombie13]

My thoughts on canon in Dragon Ball are that the instant you start talking about anything that's outside the purview of the 519 chapters of the manga as written by Toriyama, it's non-canon and it's all equally valid and invalid. I enjoy too much of the stuff outside what was originally written by Toriyama to just outright dismiss anyone's enjoyment of any aspect as "non-canon." The canon label in Dragon Ball borders on meaningless.

Even the manga is not exempt from "canon" hiccups.
Toei Bardock makes a cameo and is directly acknowledged during Namek.
Some of the Kaios from the Toei Afterlife Tournament arc make cameos and are directly acknowledged during Boo.

Canon never mattered in Dragon Ball.

[Zephyr]

Don't ever let anyone tell you that Dragon Ball: Evolution and Dragon Ball SD aren't canon.

[MasenkoHA]

My thoughts on canon in Dragon Ball are that the instant you start talking about anything that's outside the purview of the 519 chapters of the manga as written by Toriyama, it's non-canon and it's all equally valid and invalid. I enjoy too much of the stuff outside what was originally written by Toriyama to just outright dismiss anyone's enjoyment of any aspect as "non-canon." The canon label in Dragon Ball borders on meaningless.

Even the manga is not exempt from "canon" hiccups.
Toei Bardock makes a cameo and is directly acknowledged during Namek.
Some of the Kaios from the Toei Afterlife Tournament arc make cameos and are directly acknowledged during Boo.

Canon never mattered in Dragon Ball.

Afaik Toriyama designed the Kaios and Dai Kaio so it makes sense for him to use them. He didn't write the Otherworld arc they debuted in but the idea of four Kaios for each watching over one of the cardinal directions of the universe ala The Four Kings of Heaven was his idea.


As far as "Toei" Burdock, it seems more like Toriyama liked the character enough to use him and then did his own story nearly 25 years later. The character became canon when Toriyama approved of him enough to use him but the actual story never was

[JulieYBM]

Canon beat me up, called me a queerphobic slur and then stole my lunch money.

Dragon Ball Evolution beat me up, called me a Geeko and then stole my lunch money.

Also, Gokuu and Vegeta are dating.

Also, also: when people tell me I'm wrong I block them so I don't have to read their bullshit.

[Cursed Lemon]

SSJ5 was real

[Captain Awesome]

Personally I blame the Funimation dub and the Bruce Faulconer score.

[Shintoki]

the comments are hilarious

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Personally I blame the Funimation dub and the Bruce Faulconer score.

I think both have contributed to the misconception that Dragon Ball Z was an "edgy" show for teenagers wanting to feel like an adults, but not necessarily the toxicity.

The anti-Nozawa/Japanese version crowd likely would have existed with any English cast version because Dragon Ball became so popular the fandom would have become attached to any English cast.

[Saiya6Cit]

Consider most DB fans are people who watched DB in the 90s. We are 35 to 50 years old, in average.

You don't know if those guys used to exercise in their youth. If they found a lovely partner to be with, a secure job, their own place and a car they like... you know, life goals. Some people never got any of that and they live frustrated, hating themselves, full of regret, most likely going to die alone, and that is why they choose to behave in a mean way towards others. Some of them may even have hemorroids or other health issues as well. Mental health issues included.

I am not saying what they do is right. Every one should have a level of matturity that is enough as to understand that any human being deserves respect. Being rude denotes a lack of education overall. People like that will continue to show up. In Dragon Ball, at your school, on the streets where you live and drive. We can only be tolerant and set limits.

Some people are childish or unable to present arguments to uphold dicussions. People are people. People will be people. Don't try to understand them, just try to surround yourself by people who is not like that.

I guess my point was to tell you that there are not toxic fandoms, just toxic people.

[AliTheZombie13]

Right, shitty people exist everywhere.

My brother is a huge fan of DBZ. Guess what? He's openly racist, homophobic and complains all the time that things are too woke these days, he hates the "Kid Goku" phase of the franchise and abhors GT. In fact, his behavior is what pushed me away from watching Dragon Ball in its entirety up until I was in my late 20's. I could easily assume from his behavior that every Dragon Ball fan was like that, I could go even further and assume that people only like Dragon Ball Z and Super out of a sense of toxic masculinity and power fantasy, but by the few conversations I had on this forum, I know this is not the case.

People are complicated, a "fandom" is not an individual.

[Shintoki]

Right, shitty people exist everywhere.

My brother is a huge fan of DBZ. Guess what? He's openly racist, homophobic and complains all the time that things are too woke these days, he hates the "Kid Goku" phase of the franchise and abhors GT. In fact, his behavior is what pushed me away from watching Dragon Ball in its entirety up until I was in my late 20's. I could easily assume from his behavior that every Dragon Ball fan was like that, I could go even further and assume that people only like Dragon Ball Z and Super out of a sense of toxic masculinity and power fantasy, but by the few conversations I had on this forum, I know this is not the case.

People are complicated, a "fandom" is not an individual.

well said, you sold me on that note with the articulated examples u gave.