Do you consider Uranai Baba's Tournament part of the Red Ribbon Army arc?

[BernardoCairo]

I understand that dividing Dragon Ball into arcs is somewhat subjective. For example, some people split the Androids arc into two, the Androids Saga and the Cell Saga, which I never quite understood. I've also seen people divide the Freeza Saga into three, which makes even less sense to me.
One arc that stands out to me is Uranai Baba’s Tournament. In the original manga, this is arguably the most overlooked part of the story, despite featuring Goku’s reunion with Grandpa Gohan. It sits between two major sagas and wraps up several narrative threads from the Red Ribbon arc, such as the search for the Dragon Balls and Bora’s resurrection.
Since this part is often left out when people list Dragon Ball arcs, I got curious about it.

[Zephyr]

The conflict with the Red Ribbon Army and the tournament at Uranai Baba's place are both objectively parts of the same Dragon Ball hunt/quest. I usually just call it the "Four Star Ball arc", since that is what Goku sets out to acquire after the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, and we don't get the timeskip to the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai until it is safely in his possession with no strings attached.

If you want to really be cheeky you could call it the "Son Gohan arc". The quest is for the memento he left to Goku, that Goku even calls "grandpa" the first time we see it. The ball is a proxy for Goku's grandfather, and his grandfather is the 'final boss'* of the quest for the ball.

*: Yeah he has to deal with Pilaf again as the actual very last thing in the quest, but c'mon.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, I do. They're part of the same quest, as stated by Zephyr, and they also just fit together more. When Gokuu sets off to train on his own, that feels like the end of an era.

[GokuHater]

Yup, I always treated Uranai Baba "arc" as a part of RR saga.
I am not that much fan of dividing stuff into as many arcs as possible :p
Because quite frankly a saga should represent a story which means a clear beginning, middle and end with all story acts. In that way whatever Android saga or Cell saga would be, cannot exists without the other.
Here we have the same.
Uranai Baba is part of a larger story, which began when Goku decided to go find the 4 star dragon Ball. And the story culminates in Goku actually meeting his grandpa and soon after using the Dragon Balls to revive Bora.
This is one story.
I understand why people would rather have the defeat of the Red Ribbon army as an end of RR saga but this is clearly not what the story wants. We are quite early in DB lifespan and defeating the villain did not automatically mean the saga finishing.
Even in King Piccolo arc, after defeating Piccolo, the story does not end. Goku journeys to the lookout and prepares for TB23. Yet people never call it "Kami Saga" or whatever.

Actually the only understandable division between the same timestamp for me is division amongst Saiyan and Namek sagas. Saiyan stuff concludes nicely which opens a new story. Where the heroes, story bits and location is a lot different.

[MasenkoHA]

No but also yes.

It's true the real overarching plot point, Goku looking for his grandpa's four star dragon ball, begins after the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai and doesn't end until after Fortune Teller Baba's tournament . So, objectively, it is one singular story arc. But, at that same time I think there's enough going on to divide them into two separate story arcs. The Red Ribbon arc, where Goku deals with the Red Ribbon army and the Fortune Teller Baba arc where Goku and friends compete in Baba's tournament for a free fortune to find the last dragon ball.

There's really no reason to divide the Saiyan arc and the Freeza arc either, since the story isn't properly concluded until after Freeza but I think most if not all fans treat them as two distinct arcs just because there's enough of a different conflict between them (fighting the Saiyans vs fighting the Freeza Force).


So I acknowledge the Red Ribbon/Fortuneteller Baba arcs are technically one story arc while also feeling that it's easier to separate them as far as fan discussions go

[Dr. Casey]

I include Uranai Baba in the third of Dragon Ball's six arcs because it's directly connected to the Tao Pai Pai segment of Red Ribbon, but it does feel off to say that Uranai Baba is part of the Red Ribbon arc when the Red Ribbon Army is defeated at that point and one of the purposes of the arc is to have a fun breather and relax and be happy about the fact that the RRA is gone. Calling it "The Second Dragon Ball Hunt" or something might be better for coherency, since as Masenko alluded to, that thread does run through Uranai Baba as well, unlike the RRA which has zero presence and is probably starting to be forgotten about by the end of the arc.

[ABED]

I agree with MasenkoHa. The thread that connects them is Goku's search for the 4 star ball, but both parts of the story have their own climax. The oddest tidbit is that for some inane reason, FUNi says the Commander Red Saga ends when he's killed by Black. Black dies in the very next episode but it's part of the Fortuneteller Baba Saga. It's irritating anytime I watch those DVDs.

If someone says the Baba arc is part of the RRA arc, I don't necessarily agree, but I wouldn't fight it either. The time I will argue is when someone considers the Vegeta/Saiyan arc as part of the Freeza arc. Such people belong in one of the lower rungs of Hell, like Heresy. Just kidding... kinda. Having an unresolved thread isn't in itself proof of being part of another arc.

[JulieYBM]

No but also yes.

It's true the real overarching plot point, Goku looking for his grandpa's four star dragon ball, begins after the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai and doesn't end until after Fortune Teller Baba's tournament . So, objectively, it is one singular story arc. But, at that same time I think there's enough going on to divide them into two separate story arcs. The Red Ribbon arc, where Goku deals with the Red Ribbon army and the Fortune Teller Baba arc where Goku and friends compete in Baba's tournament for a free fortune to find the last dragon ball.

There's really no reason to divide the Saiyan arc and the Freeza arc either, since the story isn't properly concluded until after Freeza but I think most if not all fans treat them as two distinct arcs just because there's enough of a different conflict between them (fighting the Saiyans vs fighting the Freeza Force).


So I acknowledge the Red Ribbon/Fortuneteller Baba arcs are technically one story arc while also feeling that it's easier to separate them as far as fan discussions go

While I certainly think that we should consider how close the Saiyan and Namek arcs are, I think it's also worth keeping in mind that it's a bit more utilitarian to consider the Uranai Baba stuff a part of the Red Ribbon Army arc more so because of it's relatively short length in comparison to the Saiyan and Namek arcs' dynamic.

[AliTheZombie13]

Yes. Uranai Baba is a pretty short segment in stark contrast to Red Ribbon, and it's following up on an event Red Ribbon caused. We don't get closure to Goku's search for his Grandpa's ball, or Bora's death until Uranai Baba ends. Just like I don't agree with splitting Boo into the "Peaceful World Arc" or whatever fans call it, I don't agree with splitting Uranai Baba from Red Ribbon.

[MasenkoHA]

. Just like I don't agree with splitting Boo into the "Peaceful World Arc" or whatever fans call it, I don't agree with splitting Uranai Baba from Red Ribbon.

To be fair, as far as I can tell, the "Peaceful World" saga is just some stupid Dragon Ball wikia thing. I haven't seen it anywhere else. Funimation lumped it in as ending of the "Kid Buu " saga and I think most fans either go with that or call the whole thing the Buu saga. At least, I haven't seen it outside the wikia

Then again, if you told me a year or two ago that there's a whole segment of the fandom that thinks when Goku acts serious or bloodthirsty "that's Kakarot taking over" I wouldn't believe you and yet...

[ABED]

The "Peaceful World" arc is so bizarre. Have they not heard of an epilogue.

[JulieYBM]

. Just like I don't agree with splitting Boo into the "Peaceful World Arc" or whatever fans call it, I don't agree with splitting Uranai Baba from Red Ribbon.

To be fair, as far as I can tell, the "Peaceful World" saga is just some stupid Dragon Ball wikia thing. I haven't seen it anywhere else. Funimation lumped it in as ending of the "Kid Buu " saga and I think most fans either go with that or call the whole thing the Buu saga. At least, I haven't seen it outside the wikia

Yeah, this is literally the first time I have ever heard of this.

Then again, if you told me a year or two ago that there's a whole segment of the fandom that thinks when Goku acts serious or bloodthirsty "that's Kakarot taking over" I wouldn't believe you and yet...

wut?

[BernardoCairo]

I can see both sides of the discussion. Uranai Baba's Tournament does wrap up several narrative threads from the Red Ribbon arc, but its tone and structure feel completely different from that part of the manga.
Tying the whole adventure to the fourth Dragon Ball is a novel idea. However, unlike the first Dragon Ball hunt, the story doesn’t jump from one set piece to another in every chapter or so. In a way, it does, but the Red Ribbon Army remains the sole antagonistic force throughout. It’s also clear that the intended climax was Goku storming their base and facing off against Staff Officer Black.

I see the tournament as a "mini-arc" tied to the Red Ribbon Army Saga, similar to the smaller "arcs" in Super, but with much greater scope and quality. Its structure is also quite interesting. It feels closer to the Universe 6 Tournament from Super than to the traditional Tenkaichi Budokais that Dragon Ball is known for.

Uranai Baba is a pretty short segment in stark contrast to Red Ribbon

And yet, it holds significant importance in the Dragon Ball world. It introduced the concept of the dead returning to the living world for a day, which later played a key role in the Majin Boo arc and the Tournament of Power. It also marked the last appearance of Grandpa Gohan, a crucial moment for Goku's character. Also, at the end of this arc, Yamcha began his training with Muten Roshi. Not as major, but still a nice detail.

[MasenkoHA]

Then again, if you told me a year or two ago that there's a whole segment of the fandom that thinks when Goku acts serious or bloodthirsty "that's Kakarot taking over" I wouldn't believe you and yet...

wut?

It was like a whole thing on tiktok and instagram reels. Someone will show Goku being serious business and kicking ass and the comments will be something to the effect of "that's not Goku, that's Kakarot"

[JulieYBM]

Then again, if you told me a year or two ago that there's a whole segment of the fandom that thinks when Goku acts serious or bloodthirsty "that's Kakarot taking over" I wouldn't believe you and yet...

wut?

It was like a whole thing on tiktok and instagram reels. Someone will show Goku being serious business and kicking ass and the comments will be something to the effect of "that's not Goku, that's Kakarot"

Wow, that's definitely something I haven't seen before. I believe Son Gokuu's chosen name is Son Gokuu and he uses he/they pronouns.

Gokuu is the least cis man ever, but I love making this joke.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Yes, as it's the concluding segment of the overall Red Ribbon Army arc. That arc is incomplete without it, so it never made sense to me to treat it as its isolated piece. It doesn't work on its own, nor does the previous arc (RRA) work without it.

[Koitsukai]

I know it's called the RRA arc officially(I think), but doesn't it start with Goku searching the 4-star dragon ball? I could be wrong here, I admit I don't remember much of that arc, but IIRC, it starts with that premise, and the RRA is one of many things that happen along the way, like meeting Upa who changes his journey from searching one to searching them all to revive his other friend he met along the way, and for that his journey isn't over after the RRA is defeated.
The RRA is one of many obstacles, the biggest for sure, but the goal isn't to defeat them nor about them either.

Because of that, both arcs (Baba and RRA), to me are part of a bigger one: the Search for blabla.

I also don't think you can compare it to the Saiyan-Namek situation. The story could end after Vegeta leaves, promising to come back some time, and they have a glimmer of hope to revive their friends... but everything has been resolved, Earth saved, enemy gone, friends dead but not completely gone, maybe some loose end or an open door here and there but nothing too bad. While, here, if we remove the UB arc, the story is undone. Goku's journey would be incomplete. Like if the station decided to pull the plug.

[Majin Buu]

I do, for the reasons others have said.

Though I do like the idea of something like "The Search for the Four-Star Ball" as an alternate name for it since that's what sets the plot of the arc in motion and is Goku's goal all throughout, not to mention that it ends with his surprise reunion with the actual person the Four-Star Ball represents.

Like how you sometimes see "The Namek Arc" as an alternate name for "The Freeza Arc" (In the context of viewing it as one whole arc and not breaking it up into 2 or more little arcs like some do).

[JulieYBM]

I do, for the reasons others have said.

Though I do like the idea of something like "The Search for the Four-Star Ball" as an alternate name for it since that's what sets the plot of the arc in motion and is Goku's goal all throughout, not to mention that it ends with his surprise reunion with the actual person the Four-Star Ball represents.

Like how you sometimes see "The Namek Arc" as an alternate name for "The Freeza Arc" (In the context of viewing it as one whole arc and not breaking it up into 2 or more little arcs like some do).

'Four-Star Ball' and 'Planet Namek' certainly are the unifying elements here, so I think that's a smart idea.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Yes, for the reasons stated. Like the Piccolo/23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and Boo/25th Tenkaichi Budokai the tournament is part of the whole, either as the finale or the launching pad for the arc.

I look at the Saiyan and Namek arcs as separate though. There are loose threads with the death of certain characters, but it's not uncommon for these things to be resolved in the follow-up, like Kuririn/Krillin being killed at the end of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc and not being revived until the King Piccolo arc.