My head canon of why Gohan didn't turn into Ultimate/Mystic in GT

[PowerPhantom245]

One of the biggest mystery regards to GT is why Gohan was not able to become Ultimate/Mystic.
Many theorized that Gohan lost the ability, due to not fighting for decade, which seems to be logical sense.
Some speculate that production team just forget, which is also possible.
I'm not going to include Super and movies (Battle of Gods~Super Hero) for this topic, since it's not canon in GT.

My head canon is that Gohan did NOT lose the ability to become Ultimate, but "sealed/locked" away.
When Goten (controlled by Baby) try to possess Gohan, he was in Super Saiyan 1 (NOT 2) form.
Gohan knew that Baby is capable of taking over someone else body, which is why he didn't become Ultimate.
Just imagine if Baby took over Ultimate Gohan.
Even Super Saiyan 4 Goku BARELY defeated Baby Vegeta (who was Super Saiyan 1); if Baby took over Gohan as Ultimate form, Goku would be screwed (don't get me started with Ape form...).

The reason why I think Gohan sealed Ultimate form is that it is too powerful that is taking his life away.
To put in perspective, Goku barely kept up with Super Saiyan 3 form in battle against Kid Buu, since that form takes away stamina.
Even Kid Goku's Super Saiyan 3 lasted for few minutes compared to when he was adult.
Gohan didn't have fatigue in Super Buu and Gotenks Buu fight, it's possible that some kind of side affect have shown off-screen later.
I know it sounds farfetched and ridiculous, but I think it might make sense.
Gohan become family man where he needs to be healthy and doesn't want to take risk, to the point, he has to seal the Ultimate form.

Despite that, it doesn't technically excuse why he didn't become Ultimate for Super Android 17 and Omega Shenron fight, when it needed the most.
It's possible that because Gohan locked Ultimate form so long, that he couldn't fully grasp the sense to unlock it; after all, Gohan hasn't been training or fighting for decade.

Any thoughts?

[jjgp1112]

The simpler explanation is Toei was under the impression that Mystic was a permanent state (his eyes were still drawn with a solid outline in post-Buu filler and EOZ) but couldn't be arsed to stay consistent with ower scaling because Goku had to be the strongest and they didn't want to do anything with Gohan

[PowerPhantom245]

The simpler explanation is Toei was under the impression that Mystic was a permanent state (his eyes were still drawn with a solid outline in post-Buu filler and EOZ) but couldn't be arsed to stay consistent with ower scaling because Goku had to be the strongest and they didn't want to do anything with Gohan

I was referring to in-universe explanation.

[jjgp1112]

The simpler explanation is Toei was under the impression that Mystic was a permanent state (his eyes were still drawn with a solid outline in post-Buu filler and EOZ) but couldn't be arsed to stay consistent with ower scaling because Goku had to be the strongest and they didn't want to do anything with Gohan

I was referring to in-universe explanation.

But the design makes it pretty clear he's in that state, plus I'm pretty sure a guidebook said he was not only still in the state but actually kept up his training, so it's really hard to find any logical in-universe explanation for his strength being so far behind other than "because Toei"

[The Dark Knight]

My theory is that once Old Kai unlocked Gohan's power, it became like a block of ice; if you don't keep it frozen, it melts back into its original water form. Unlike Super where there's a new threat every other week, it made sense that Gohan didn't take part in any intense training, as the world had been at peace for over 15 years. With that said, Gohan was a capable fighter in GT (unlike in Super), and the Perfect Files even say he kept up his training, it's just that his training wasn't intense enough to enable him to keep accessing all his power in one go.

[Saiya6Cit]

I always understood it was due to his lack of training.

But everyone is welcomed to have their own theories.

[90sDBZ]

Don't the Perfect Files imply that he trained to the point were he could stack Super Saiyan on top of Ultimate?

I think I prefer that idea honestly. It's nice to think that there's a version of Gohan who actually learnt from his past mistakes, and found a way to balance training with the rest of his life.

Super has regressed his character twice now if we count Super Hero. Granted he doesn't manage to do much in GT, but at least his actual character doesn't feel like a joke.

One thing to note is he does manage to hold his own against SS1 Goten while still in Base form, so it's possible he could be Mystic/Ultimate.

[The Dark Knight]

Don't the Perfect Files imply that he trained to the point were he could stack Super Saiyan on top of Ultimate?

It just mentioned that he kept up his training, but it never said anything about ultimate being combined or stacked with Ssj.

It's nice to think that there's a version of Gohan who actually learnt from his past mistakes, and found a way to balance training with the rest of his life.

Definitely. He may not have been as strong as he was during his Buu arc days, but he still put in the work to remain in shape and be prepared if he was ever needed to fight, which is a far cry from the Gohan we have in Super.

[MasenkoHA]

I’m gonna be honest pre-modern era I didn’t think Ultimate/Mystic Gohan was ever meant to be a transformation and was just another example of the fandom’s hyper fixation with attributive adjectives. Teen Gohan. Kid Goku, Base Goku etc etc etc

Like, ignoring all the stuff in the modern material I just thought the whole point was Gohan was now so powerful he didn’t need to or couldn’t transform into Super Saiyan anymore because it would accomplish nothing

[JulieYBM]

That was also my reading. The idea to make this a transformation had to have been done to justify merchandise, hence the hair change. I think that it makes the whole set up not work at all. The flow of battles gets messed up when you're making Gohan cycle through Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Ultimate and now Beast. Until he gains Beast, just give Gohan no transformations or only give him God or Blue during the Tournament of Power arc.

Or for GT...just Super Saiyan. One transformation per battle is enough for the flow.

[Metalwario64]

I’m gonna be honest pre-modern era I didn’t think Ultimate/Mystic Gohan was ever meant to be a transformation and was just another example of the fandom’s hyper fixation with attributive adjectives. Teen Gohan. Kid Goku, Base Goku etc etc etc

Like, ignoring all the stuff in the modern material I just thought the whole point was Gohan was now so powerful he didn’t need to or couldn’t transform into Super Saiyan anymore because it would accomplish nothing

That definitely was but... for some reason Dragon Fist Explosion had him transform into Ultimate to fight Hildegarn.

[super michael]

Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302), P4.1-2
Gohan: “Ho-how can I turn into this mightiest of warriors!?”
Elder Kaioshin: “You transform into that Super whatever-it-is a lot, right? You’ll be fine if you just get the gist of that, and throw in a kiai.”
Gohan: “The gist of Super Saiyan…I-I got it…!”

Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302), P7.2-3
Context: after Gohan transforms into the ‘mightiest of warriors’
Goku: “It re-really is incredible…It’s super-duper…! Absolutely unbelievable…Your appearance has hardly changed…And you ain’t even a Super Saiyan…Yet you’ve been taken to su-such an extreme…”
Elder Kaioshin: “Hmph, transforming isn’t good. That Super whatever-its-called is the wrong way [of doing things]…”

Source: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15488

Gohan lifespan shouldn't decrease by using his Ultimate form. Relying on Super Saiyans is the wrong way of doing it,


As for GT I doubt they cared about merchandise, other there would have been more transformation. These are some potential transformations:

- SSJ2 Goten / Oozaru
- SSJ2 Trunks / Oozaru
- Adult Gotenks and his SSJ+ forms / Oozaru
- Gohan Oozaru
- SSJ3 Vegeta / Base Vegeta keep his tail

Pan unfortunately she didn't gain SSJ, Ultimate or Oozaru form for a dumb reason.

[The Dark Knight]

As for GT I doubt they cared about merchandise, other there would have been more transformation.

This is indeed true, and was even said by one of the producers or writers, as they were hesitant to introduce Ssj4 due to not being sure how to do it properly from a story perspective. Thankfully they knocked it out of the park, as Ssj4 couldn't have been handled better, whether we're talking about the method of reaching it, the concept behind it, or the design itself. What I really like about the form is how Goku and Vegeta reaching it felt like a full circle moment for each of their character arcs; it wasn't just another transformation of the week for the sake of it like how a certain other series handles its new forms.

[90sDBZ]

I’m gonna be honest pre-modern era I didn’t think Ultimate/Mystic Gohan was ever meant to be a transformation and was just another example of the fandom’s hyper fixation with attributive adjectives. Teen Gohan. Kid Goku, Base Goku etc etc etc

Like, ignoring all the stuff in the modern material I just thought the whole point was Gohan was now so powerful he didn’t need to or couldn’t transform into Super Saiyan anymore because it would accomplish nothing

That definitely was but... for some reason Dragon Fist Explosion had him transform into Ultimate to fight Hildegarn.

I was gonna mention that. It's a pretty cool scene, because you see the clear change in his appearance and demeanour.

While the OG manga had him be permanently Ultimate after the ritual, the anime wasn't as consistent. I can think of multiple scenes of him looking like his old self after being revived. The scene were Goku and Vegeta return to the Lookout after the final battle, and the filler party episode both come to mind.

I also think the Budokai games making Ultimate a transformation played a part in how it's viewed by fans.

In fairness I understand it. It's more than just his base form getting a power up. It's a huge shift in his demeanor and personality to more confident/arrogant, similar to how SS2 was against Cell. I think people like the idea of this mild mannered guy suddenly becoming a badass warrior. It certainly adds more weight to his arrival against Super Buu.

[Kid Buu]

I always understood it was due to his lack of training.

But everyone is welcomed to have their own theories.

Same.

I'm happy to subscribe to that logic.

[Metalwario64]

I’m gonna be honest pre-modern era I didn’t think Ultimate/Mystic Gohan was ever meant to be a transformation and was just another example of the fandom’s hyper fixation with attributive adjectives. Teen Gohan. Kid Goku, Base Goku etc etc etc

Like, ignoring all the stuff in the modern material I just thought the whole point was Gohan was now so powerful he didn’t need to or couldn’t transform into Super Saiyan anymore because it would accomplish nothing

That definitely was but... for some reason Dragon Fist Explosion had him transform into Ultimate to fight Hildegarn.

I was gonna mention that. It's a pretty cool scene, because you see the clear change in his appearance and demeanour.

While the OG manga had him be permanently Ultimate after the ritual, the anime wasn't as consistent. I can think of multiple scenes of him looking like his old self after being revived. The scene were Goku and Vegeta return to the Lookout after the final battle, and the filler party episode both come to mind.

I also think the Budokai games making Ultimate a transformation played a part in how it's viewed by fans.

In fairness I understand it. It's more than just his base form getting a power up. It's a huge shift in his demeanor and personality to more confident/arrogant, similar to how SS2 was against Cell. I think people like the idea of this mild mannered guy suddenly becoming a badass warrior. It certainly adds more weight to his arrival against Super Buu.

I find Gohan's fight in movie 13 really badass too, he looks super cool turning Ultimate and wearing the Saiyaman tunic! I did go back to check those moments and at least far as I can tell he is still Ultimate:

[90sDBZ]

I did go back to check those moments and at least far as I can tell he is still Ultimate:

I dunno. To me he doesn't look Ultimate in those pics. The more lighthearted eyes and expression are a big part of it, but the hair also looks like regular Base Gohan in the 1st 2 pics. Ultimate has one long bang, while those pics show him with the 2 shorter bangs he had prior to Ultimate.

You could make an argument for the 2 bottom pics, as the hair lines up more with Ultimate, but the expression still looks like regular old Gohan.

Also he generally looks more buff in Ultimate than he does in these pics. He basically had Goku's exact body size in Ultimate, and I seem to recall a shot from the party episode with him stood next to a noticeably bigger Goku.

[Skar]

The simpler explanation is Toei was under the impression that Mystic was a permanent state (his eyes were still drawn with a solid outline in post-Buu filler and EOZ) but couldn't be arsed to stay consistent with ower scaling because Goku had to be the strongest and they didn't want to do anything with Gohan

I was referring to in-universe explanation.

But the design makes it pretty clear he's in that state, plus I'm pretty sure a guidebook said he was not only still in the state but actually kept up his training, so it's really hard to find any logical in-universe explanation for his strength being so far behind other than "because Toei"

I remember an interview on here that Gohan stopped training entirely after the Buu saga. I think it's another case of whoever wrote the guidebooks being unaware and filling in the blanks. It's kinda what happened in Super when he lost Ultimate by RoF and wasn't sure he could even use SSJ1.

[jjgp1112]

I was referring to in-universe explanation.

But the design makes it pretty clear he's in that state, plus I'm pretty sure a guidebook said he was not only still in the state but actually kept up his training, so it's really hard to find any logical in-universe explanation for his strength being so far behind other than "because Toei"

I remember an interview on here that Gohan stopped training entirely after the Buu saga. I think it's another case of whoever wrote the guidebooks being unaware and filling in the blanks. It's kinda what happened in Super when he lost Ultimate by RoF and wasn't sure he could even use SSJ1.

In this case the guidebook was specifically for GT, I think the perfect files from '97

[jjgp1112]

I did go back to check those moments and at least far as I can tell he is still Ultimate:

I dunno. To me he doesn't look Ultimate in those pics. The more lighthearted eyes and expression are a big part of it, but the hair also looks like regular Base Gohan in the 1st 2 pics. Ultimate has one long bang, while those pics show him with the 2 shorter bangs he had prior to Ultimate.

You could make an argument for the 2 bottom pics, as the hair lines up more with Ultimate, but the expression still looks like regular old Gohan.

Also he generally looks more buff in Ultimate than he does in these pics. He basically had Goku's exact body size in Ultimate, and I seem to recall a shot from the party episode with him stood next to a noticeably bigger Goku.

Full outline = Super Saiyan/Ultimate. Remember, Full Power Super Saiyan also gets drawn with the light hearted eyes.