Oh, how I yearn to draw like Toei!

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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kenisu3000
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Oh, how I yearn to draw like Toei!

Post by kenisu3000 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:59 pm

Too many episodes throughout the entire DragonBall trilogy are animated by either mediocre "meh, whatever" studios, or just plain Triangle Crap-erific. However, there are a handful of episodes that are animated by what I assume is Toei themselves, as the animation is just so awe-inspiringly gorgeous that it's obviously the masters at work. This is the sort of thing that makes me proud to be a DragonBall fan. I've been drawing cartoons my whole life, and it's also what makes me want more and more to reach Toei's level.
What brought me to make a topic out of this is, as I've been going through the series in making my background music documentation, I've re-discovered a lot of these eye-poppers, and just tonight I reached episode 97 of the original DragonBall. This is the first of the five-episode Goku vs. Tenshinhan 22nd Budokai battle, and toward the end, with both characters airborne, Tenshinhan shoots a Dodonpa that hits Goku in the foot and knocks him back down to the ring and straight through the tilework. Tenshinhan lands, and then Goku pops back out, performing a series of forward-flips in midair, at which point the camera pulls back and the sun gleams past Goku's curling form (the beautiful animation in this shot alone is enough to make me drool with excitement). Then, Goku lands and wastes no time in charging forward. Tenshinhan poses, then Goku pulls a disappearing act, and the music begins (which only adds to the awesomeness that is this scene): a piece I refer to as "Last Resort Kamehameha", and continues as Ten smacks Goku and pins him against the entrance gate, then proceeds to hit him rapid-fire like a machine gun, as Kame Sennin points out.
I wish I had the technology to take screencaps, or provide a video so you guys can see for yourselves just how breathtaking this scene is: not only the rare-to-be-found homebase animation, but the choice in music and how whoever-it-was who chose to use this piece knew how to use it effectively: without cutting it back out after Tenshinhan lands the initial hit on Goku, he lets the music continue through the rest of the scene. Add in the performance by the voice actors, and it all works like a charm.
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Post by Sebastian (SB) » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:04 pm

I know which episode you are referring to, as I've recently bought the 2 Disc Set that contains that episode, & yes the animation was really gorgeous. Sometimes I wish they were a little more consistent with animation or at least avoid the triangle crap.
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Post by mAcChaos » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:17 pm

There's a lot of scenes like that in the Buu Saga. I think it actually has the most scenes that are animated well. Except maybe the Saiyan saga...
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Post by nathantheguitarist » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:25 pm

The animation is generally always top-notch, though it tended to change throughout the series, it's still all very well.

But then sometimes you'll get complete shit, like the 29th Budokai episode...
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Post by Pieter » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:52 pm

Wasn't the first Goku vs. Vegeta incredibly animated?

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Post by MajinMetroid » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:20 am

Has anyone ever seen a list of the A+ looking episodes? If not, anyone have the time and patience? It'd be a good resource to AMV editors if nothing else.

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Post by The Prince » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:20 am

The SS4 Goku vs Baby fight was incredibly animated! Until the last episode of the fight, which was some of the worst animation in all of db/z/gt.
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Post by Deus ex Machina » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:23 am

Pieter wrote:Wasn't the first Goku vs. Vegeta incredibly animated?
Parts of it was; some of that fight was just hit and miss, you'd get a few that are jaw-dropping gorgeous (Vegeta transforming into an great ape, Kuririn throwing the Genki-Dama)

And then some, not so much...

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Post by mAcChaos » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:30 am

I love the Kaio Ken scene. The animation in that part was just one long uninterrupted stream of fighting that was well animated.
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Post by Acid_Reign » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:32 am

MajinMetroid wrote:Has anyone ever seen a list of the A+ looking episodes? If not, anyone have the time and patience? It'd be a good resource to AMV editors if nothing else.
Depends on how you define "A+." Is that anything that isn't the triangle stuff? Maybe an easier list to compile would be episodes to avoid.

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Post by shannarafan » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:21 am

The animation style is one of the things I love most about the series, but true, some episodes are downright horrid. I died a little inside when I saw the one after Goku turned SSJ, for instance.
kenisu3000 wrote:Tenshinhan lands, and then Goku pops back out, performing a series of forward-flips in midair, at which point the camera pulls back and the sun gleams past Goku's curling form (the beautiful animation in this shot alone is enough to make me drool with excitement).
I love that scene. :mrgreen: You can also see it in the end credits of the Bardock special.

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Post by Snail » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:30 am

I felt the same way shannarafan -_-.

Good god, I've never heard the japanese version of the end credits to the Bardock special. It's beautiful *sniffs, especially the song.

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Post by Humpski » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:22 am

Freeza saga had some good animation too.
Here's a bit.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AoSzCI-fA3k

But yeah when the animation was "on" in the show it was beautiful, I like the thick black outlines they tended to use around the characters edges.
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Post by Snail » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:42 pm

Technically the animation that we consider to be good appears throughout every saga.

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Post by omegacwa » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:46 pm

I prefer the Triangle crap over the "pale cartoon" type any day. at least the triangle guy looked like he was trying to make it look like DBZ, the Pale cartoon type didn't even look like dbz, it looked like some crap fan art by a 10 year old.

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Post by Humpski » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:46 pm

Who's this triangle guy everyone is always talking about?

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Post by Mr.Piccolo » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:53 pm

Humpski wrote:Who's this triangle guy everyone is always talking about?
This explains EVERYTHING..well everything dealing with the different animation styles in DragonBall/Z/GT.
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Post by Snail » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:55 pm

Damn! You beat me to it Hatake Kakashi!

*mutters...darn ninja skills and such.

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Post by Big Momma » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:07 pm

I think a really well drawn episode was the episode before the last GT episode. With Goku rising out of the hole with genki dama, and Omega(Sorry, can't memorize all those fancy Japanese dragon names.) was soooo shiny. They all seem to be shiny in the Budokai 2/3/Sagas openings. I like it like that....they should redraw it...all...
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Post by Acid_Reign » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:08 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:
Humpski wrote:Who's this triangle guy everyone is always talking about?
This explains EVERYTHING..well everything dealing with the different animation styles in DragonBall/Z/GT.
-Rick
Oh, I see. I wasn't entirely clear on that, either. I just though that "triangle crap" was referring to the pale cartoony type due to their blatantly triangular noses.

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