Piccolo’s evolution as a character

the_abberration · Post by **the_abberration** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:39 pm

Piccolo’s evolution as a character; Nail and Kami’s influence over Piccolo Diamo

I don’t know if this discussion has ever been brought up in the past (and I apologize if it has), but it is something I have been thinking about for awhile. As we all know, Piccolo has stated that it was Gohan’s influence that made him good. However, what about the personalities of Nail and Kami from their fusion with Piccolo? To some degree, they were more than just mere power-ups, as (I feel) their personalities helped to change Piccolo from the entity he was at the end of DB / beginning of DBZ, to the Piccolo we see by the end of the DBZ / midway through DBGT. It is also interesting to note, that while at first glance it seems Piccolo plays a smaller role in DBZ a time goes on, his character does truly evolve. For the most part, I will be using the anime for my observations:

Freeza Arc: Up until his arrival on Namek, Piccolo was still pretty much his evil self. True, he did sacrifice himself for Gohan as a step towards his redemption, but consider this: while on Kaio-sama’s world he still alienates himself from the other Z warriors, shows little respect for Kaio-sama much as he does for Kami (remember this point for later), and is still planning on defeating Goku and taking over the Earth after they face Freeza. Once on Namek, he meets Nail and learns about the Namek fusion. Piccolo states he doesn’t want to lose his personality, to which Nail replies that it would just be an increase in power in addition to Nail’s memories being added to his own. While this does hold true, upon seeing Dende, Piccolo seems to exhibit more than just Nail’s memory of him. Nail’s concern for Dende (and his well being) seem to come through emotionally for Piccolo.

Android/Cell arc: After being defeated by the androids and realizing that it may be the only chance for victory, Piccolo struggles with the decision to merge with Kami (in effect becoming the original Namek he was supposedly before Dragonball began). Now what is interesting about this, is that before he goes off to find Kami he is very vocal about how he is still evil, Kuririn and the others are not his friends, he’s going to take over the world, etc. I believe it is at this point, Piccolo realizes the remaining vestiges of his evil self may be compromised. He even goes so far as to convince everyone (including himself) that he is still evil. As a side note, we again see the integration of Nail having it’s effects on Piccolo when he realizes it is Dende whom Goku brings back from the new planet Namek.

Buu arc: This is where I feel we see the noticed effect of Piccolo’s fusion with Nail and Kami (mostly Kami). We see that Piccolo stays at (or visits) the lookout, in contrast to his never wanting to be anywhere near it at the beginning of DBZ. He is even devastated when the lookout is destroyed by Buu and Gotenks. He declines fighting Kaioshin out of respect of his status as a god, where before he seemed to show little respect for them. Again he shows concern over Dende’s death (which may also be due to the dragon balls instead of his bond with Dende).

GT: Just for grins and giggles, I’ll include this because it has some relevance to my topic. At the end of the Bebi saga, Piccolo sacrifices himself so that Earth could be safe from the Blackstar dragon balls. At this point, I feel Piccolo comes full circle as a character, in that he ends up sacrificing himself for a world he once sought to take over originally. It also seems somewhat of an irony that indirectly (through the dragon balls he created at one point), he does destroy the Earth.

I don’t know if he intended to or not, Mr. Toriyama did a very good job on showing Piccolo’s evolution from top villain to one of Earth’s greatest heroes (especially in his use of Nail and Kami). Your thoughts?

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:47 pm

I thought there was some evolution from Dragonball to the Saiyan saga, too. He was much more vicious when he first met Goku, almost like an animal, but by the time Gohan was born he was able to stomach working with Goku. And I think after he died to save Gohan he wasn't as bent on taking over the Earth. I don't remember him ever re-iterating that he was, anyway.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:07 pm

Piccolo had already started to evolve before Gohan even entered into the picture. Remember when he killed Raditz that Raditz's soul was able to go to the afterlife, whereas before when a member of the Demon clan killed someone their soul was almost held in a state of purgatory.

-Corey

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:27 pm

Yeah, Corey's right. Piccolo's change, albeit gradually slow, definitely started before Raditz came to Earth. For all we know, he may never have been 100% pure evil like his father. I recall when he made his first showing for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, during a carnival, he saved a little girl's life before she was about to be hit by lightning, though he does try to shrug it off. That's something Piccolo Daimao would NEVER have done. Even though Piccolo was bent on taking over the world, if he would've succeeded, I doubt he would've done so with a world genocide intention as Daimao did (he planned to obliterate all 43 major cities once a year). Piccolo's character development definitely comes a long way, almost as much as Vegeta's and just as much as Gohan's. It really is incredible and is no wonder why he'd be Toriyama's favorite character.

Props to Abbreviation for including GT.

the_abberration · Post by **the_abberration** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:08 pm

Now that you metion it, I guess he was no where near as evil as his Diamo incarnation. I do think the fusion with Nail and Kami contributed to Piccolo's personality even though he thought of them as powerups.

Conan the SSJ wrote:Props to Abbreviation for including GT.

Thanks. I'm one of the minorities who actually likes GT. Then again, I liked the third season Star Blazers too. So go figure.

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:53 pm

I think you're underestimating Piccolo's development before fusing with Nail. He wasn't still hell bent on ruling earth once he sacrificed himself. Even by the time Gohan was born, apparentley at some time Goku had told Gohan that Piccolo wasn't as evil as his father. Lack of respect for King Kai? I wouldn't say that makes him evil still, just disrespectful.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:21 pm

There's some change though. Why would Piccolo be shocked so much about Kaioshin's appearence? That looked more like Kami to me.

I always kinda felt sad how the characters he fused with pretty much died, because even when piccolo dies Kami and Nail don't return as themselves.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:33 pm

Yay.
I personally thought that Piccolo didn't have enough time to shine as a villian. He was basically picking up his father's dirtywork and after the events of DragonBall, I'm guessing he had all the time in the world to either train to kill Goku or reflect on that. I mean, his father was a pretty logical guy (eating the dragonballs, killing the world's strongest fighters, using Ten as a hostage) and that stayed with Piccolo (eating the jar containing Kami, the crowd at the world tournament being collateral damage, chosing to train Gohan, etc). I'm guess being when he was faced with either making allies or dying, he was kind of forced to change for the better. The saving Gohan thing is obvious and that carries on through the rest of the series.

Piccolo had already started to evolve before Gohan even entered into the picture. Remember when he killed Raditz that Raditz's soul was able to go to the afterlife, whereas before when a member of the Demon clan killed someone their soul was almost held in a state of purgatory.

I always saw that as a misunderstanding seeing how the characters were still in the DragonBall-state-of-mind of seeing Piccolo as a "demon", not as a namekian. I have a question: When do you guys think Piccolo offically became a "hero"? Better yet, when do you think Piccolo's plan of world domination and killing Goku were over? Was it through the arrival of the saiyans? Blessing in disguise, maybe..
-Rick

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:42 pm

People often see Piccolo Daimaou as Piccolo's father, but he's more than just that; a reincarnation of Piccolo Daimaou.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:42 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:Better yet, when do you think Piccolo's plan of world domination and killing Goku were over? Was it through the arrival of the saiyans? Blessing in disguise, maybe..
-Rick

Piccolo has killed Goku.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:47 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:I always saw that as a misunderstanding seeing how the characters were still in the DragonBall-state-of-mind of seeing Piccolo as a "demon", not as a namekian. I have a question: When do you guys think Piccolo offically became a "hero"? Better yet, when do you think Piccolo's plan of world domination and killing Goku were over? Was it through the arrival of the saiyans? Blessing in disguise, maybe..
-Rick

Eh, 'Demon' is more an affiliation than an actual race. Piccolo Daimao was always a Namekian, but he was also a Demon Clansman. Piccolo (the second) even calls himself a Demon Clansman during the Jinzoningen arc before he goes to fuse with Kami-sama, which is after he knew of his actual race. Kami-sama's remarks about Raditz's soul would then lean towards Piccolo's affiliation, not his race.

As for when Piccolo becomes a hero...I'd say the sacrifice of himself for Gohan definitely is the biggest jump. The next biggest would be his taking the attack meant for Goku when Freeza survives the Genki Dama.

-Corey

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:08 pm

Pieter wrote:People often see Piccolo Daimaou as Piccolo's father, but he's more than just that; a reincarnation of Piccolo Daimaou.

Acctually, Piccolo refers to himself as both. So it's a combo.

gohanku · Post by **gohanku** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:11 am

Piccolo's upbringing might have been what seperates King Piccolo and Ma Jr. For example, Piccolo Daimaou was created when Kami spilt up with his evil self. After doing so, Picclo Daimaou went to create chaos in the world before being Mufuba'ed.

Ma Jr was born out of his egg, as a sad little green kid who want his parents (well kindof). The screen where it is shown where he was afraid of the bear and the time he broke in a little boys house to eat something can tells us that Piccolo was just mad at Goku for killling his father but is okay with the world, even after three years, Piccolo still had some good in him. Saving the child from death was the perfect example.

After DB, Piccolo started to change, he started to become a anti-hero then a villian and at last after deciding to fuse with Kami, we know that Piccolo was now a hero.

Vhanos · Post by **Vhanos** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:22 am

I find it weird how when Piccolo meets Kami for the first time in a long time in the android saga he wasn't calm. But in the Garlic Jr. saga when Kami asked him to take his place he wasn't angry at seeing him.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:25 am

Vhanos wrote:I find it weird how when Piccolo meets Kami for the first time in a long time in the android saga he wasn't calm. But in the Garlic Jr. saga when Kami asked him to take his place he wasn't angry at seeing him.

Cause this is filler, filler night
And no ones gonna save you from the beast about strike
You know its filler, filler night
Youre fighting for your life inside a filler, filler tonight

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Piccolo’s evolution as a character

Piccolo’s evolution as a character

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