The Dragonballs and Immortality

Jamstar · Post by **Jamstar** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:34 pm

Vegeta once wanted the Dragonballs very bad so he could become immortal. I am wondering, if he ever did become immortal via the Dragonballs, what would happen? Would his power level be infinite? Say for example, when Vegeta first arrived on earth and he became immortal. His power level was only 18,000 at that point. What would it be after becoming immortal? Would he even be stronger than a SSJ or SSJ2?

Also, once Vegeta became a SSJ, why did he lose his desire to go after the Dragonballs and try to become immortal?

Vegard Aune · Post by **Vegard Aune** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:37 pm

Jamstar wrote:Vegeta once wanted the Dragonballs very bad so he could become immortal. I am wondering, if he ever did become immortal via the Dragonballs, what would happen? Would his power level be infinite? Say for example, when Vegeta first arrived on earth and he became immortal. His power level was only 18,000 at that point. What would it be after becoming immortal? Would he even be stronger than a SSJ or SSJ2?

I don't think his actual power would change. However, as he would be impossible to kill, he would propably become the most dangerous fighter in the universe.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:13 pm

Vegeta was probably banking on getting some incredible zenkais too. If he's immortal, then his body can be damaged way beyond what should kill him. Healing from that would give him a huge zenkai.

Jamstar · Post by **Jamstar** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:31 pm

Rocketman wrote:Vegeta was probably banking on getting some incredible zenkais too. If he's immortal, then his body can be damaged way beyond what should kill him. Healing from that would give him a huge zenkai.

Though, if he was immortal how would he be able to get hurt? I don't really understand. And, how would he win in a battle against someone like Frieza for example? Vegeta at a PL of 18,000 vs. Frieza at 530,000. Even though he is immortal the power gap is just too much.

Also, why didn't he try to become immortal after the Namek saga?

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:44 pm

He just wanted immortality. That doesn't mean he can't be hurt. It just means he can't die. He could be beaten to the point of death, but wouldn't die.

Vegeta was planning on avoiding Freeza until he was powerful enough to beat him, but to do that he had two things to do. 1) Stop Freeza from getting immortality. 2) Get immortality himself, that way if he does run into Freeza there's nothing Freeza can do besides torture him. And if/when he does heal, he'd get a giant boost in power. But if he didn't run into Freeza after getting immortality, he'd probably just leave and train until he could.

Jamstar · Post by **Jamstar** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:52 pm

Tyro wrote:He just wanted immortality. That doesn't mean he can't be hurt. It just means he can't die. He could be beaten to the point of death, but wouldn't die.

Vegeta was planning on avoiding Freeza until he was powerful enough to beat him, but to do that he had two things to do. 1) Stop Freeza from getting immortality. 2) Get immortality himself, that way if he does run into Freeza there's nothing Freeza can do besides torture him. And if/when he does heal, he'd get a giant boost in power. But if he didn't run into Freeza after getting immortality, he'd probably just leave and train until he could.

Why didn't he try to become immortal after the Namek saga? That way he could make sure he would always be strongert than Goku, perhaps?

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:59 pm

Though, if he was immortal how would he be able to get hurt? I don't really understand. And, how would he win in a battle against someone like Freeza for example? Vegeta at a PL of 18,000 vs. Freeza at 530,000. Even though he is immortal the power gap is just too much.

If he's immortal, I don't think it matters what his battle power is in comparison to anyone he goes up against. Everything that even a vastly superior opponent like Freeza could do to damage him could only make him stronger until Vegeta invariably surpassed him-- it might take a good deal of fighting for it to happen, but a'course no Saiyajin really minds that.

EDIT: Also, what Tyro said.

Also, why didn't he try to become immortal after the Namek saga?

I'm not sure. Perhaps the events of Freeza altered his mindset in that regard somewhat. Other priorities took immediate precedence after Goku became a Super Saiyajin, such as the need to reach that level himself, and everything from preparing for the Artificial Humans onward put him on a bit of a tight schedule as it was.

Hell, he ended up having a child with Bulma before they even showed up-- that alone is a mind-altering, life-changing experience that I assume would make even Vegeta reconsider himself-- and then there was the Cell Games, which changed Vegeta forever. The death of his rival Goku and even Trunks, the realization of Gohan as the strongest warrior and his new place as an Earthling probably put his lust for invincibility to rest for at least the seven years following, and immortality was no longer necessary.

Dunno, really. Anyone else wanna make a guess?

~Lemmy

DaemonCorps · Post by **DaemonCorps** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:20 pm

Woah, after five long months, Li'l Lemmy's back!

Anyways, I don't think Vegeta's power would increase if he were to get immortality. The way I see immortality is that you stay the same strength, but you could never die, even against someone who was more powerful than you (kinda like in "Jackie Chan Adventures"). Of course, the downside to this would be that if you were to fight someone stronger than you while immortal, you would be torturing yourself, since you'd never die.

Also, I don't think you'd be able to regenerate, which is something that crossed my mind. This means that you'd still be alive even when sliced into bits or even blasted into dust, which I find pretty hard to imagine-- I bet if the story actually went in the direction of Vegeta gaining immortality, they'd probably throw in regeneration in there as well, just so stuff wouldn't be so confusing if worst comes to worst for the immortal guy.

As for why he didn't try for immortality after the Namek stuff, I'm saying it's because he saw Goku able to reach SSJ all on his own, without any kind of gift from Shenron, like Vegeta was aiming for. Take note that throughout the entire Namek/Frieza Saga, Vegeta takes a more shortcut route in trying to reach SSJ-- in particular, having Kuririn kill him just so Dende could heal him. Sure, Goku did a similar things when he was firing kamehamehas at himself during his space training, but I'm pretty sure that the narration notes that he wasn't even aware that bringing himself up to near death would boost his strength up that much.

I guess after seeing that a mere commoner is able to reach SSJ, Vegeta was convinced that he didn't have to rely on becoming immortal anymore. Also, resorting to immortality after all the hard work Goku did would probably hurt Vegeta's pride. After all, immortality was just a stepping stone for Vegeta to reach SSJ.

Jamstar · Post by **Jamstar** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:26 pm

Li'l Lemmy wrote:
Though, if he was immortal how would he be able to get hurt? I don't really understand. And, how would he win in a battle against someone like Freeza for example? Vegeta at a PL of 18,000 vs. Freeza at 530,000. Even though he is immortal the power gap is just too much.
If he's immortal, I don't think it matters what his battle power is in comparison to anyone he goes up against. Everything that even a vastly superior opponent like Freeza could do to damage him could only make him stronger until Vegeta invariably surpassed him-- it might take a good deal of fighting for it to happen, but a'course no Saiyajin really minds that.

EDIT: Also, what Tyro said.

Also, why didn't he try to become immortal after the Namek saga?
I'm not sure. Perhaps the events of Freeza altered his mindset in that regard somewhat. Other priorities took immediate precedence after Goku became a Super Saiyajin, such as the need to reach that level himself, and everything from preparing for the Artificial Humans onward put him on a bit of a tight schedule as it was.

Hell, he ended up having a child with Bulma before they even showed up-- that alone is a mind-altering, life-changing experience that I assume would make even Vegeta reconsider himself-- and then there was the Cell Games, which changed Vegeta forever. The death of his rival Goku and even Trunks, the realization of Gohan as the strongest warrior and his new place as an Earthling probably put his lust for invincibility to rest for at least the seven years following, and immortality was no longer necessary.

Dunno, really. Anyone else wanna make a guess?

~Lemmy

What were Vegeta's thoughts when he realized Gohan was the strongest warrior during the Cell Games? Does he consider Gohan a low-level like Goku and have a "hatred" for him as well?

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:27 pm

Well, if Vegeta tried to become immortal, Goku would just own him with SSJ.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:44 pm

Lemmy's BACK!

Huh, topic? Uh, immortality can be seen with Garlic Jr. You can't be killed.
-Rick

Jamstar · Post by **Jamstar** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:07 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:Lemmy's BACK! Huh, topic? Uh, immortality can be seen with Garlic Jr. You can't be killed.
-Rick

What about Power Levels? Do they increase exponentially? I am going to assume no. The level stays the same, but since Vegeta wouldn't be able to be killed he could keep getting zenkai power ups over and over again.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:15 pm

Jamstar wrote:What about Power Levels? Do they increase exponentially? I am going to assume no. The level stays the same, but since Vegeta wouldn't be able to be killed he could keep getting zenkai power ups over and over again.

Not too sure. I'm speaking from what we've seen. Garlic Jr. obviously isn't a Saiyan so even if he was to gain any experience from the fights he had while being immortal, the real question is: once you can't die, can you gain power from (for the most part) a near death experience?
-Dr.Phil

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:28 pm

Woah, after five long months, Li'l Lemmy's back!

Mr.Piccolo wrote:Lemmy's BACK! Huh, topic? Uh, immortality can be seen with Garlic Jr. You can't be killed.
-Rick

Quick shit:

Yeah . . . the past five months or so have been kinda hectic for me, but with things having finally settled down I'm free to blather freely again. I've missed this place!

Though even so, I did at least look in from time to time. Chibi_Goten caught me floating around one time about a month or so ago and sent me a "welcome back" PM (and like a total assfuck I didn't even respond-- m'sorry, Chibi Goten!), but I haven't actually posted in about all this time. I'm looking forward to jumping back into things here.

Though honestly? I wasn't expecting people to notice. Thanks so much! (Now if only I could get my good friend Suupaa Gohan 2 to come back, as well . . .)

The first thing I noticed when I got back, though? Rick's post count. It's jumped by nearly a thousand since I left! Damn, dude-- what, do you live here or something?!

What about Power Levels? Do they increase exponentially? I am going to assume no. The level stays the same, but since Vegeta wouldn't be able to be killed he could keep getting zenkai power ups over and over again.

Wait, what? And here I thought the topic was about my amazing return.

In hindsight, I'm going to go out on a limb here and throw support to what DaemonCorps said about immortality stunting the growth of battle power-- conceivably, it could. Though I tend to think that Vegeta himself would want to disagree, since the whole point to his plan would be not simply eternal life but a potentially unlimited strength. To challenge Freeza with just the eternal life would be pointless, no?

Also, regarding Daemon's thoughts about why Vegeta eventually gave up on the Dragon Balls: it's probably a better explanation than what I came up with, Jamstar; I say go with it. There's certainly a lot more thought put into it, it's character-based (rather than situation-based, as was most of mine) and it's a damn fine extrapolation considering the absolute vagueness of the territory.

~Lemmy

DaemonCorps · Post by **DaemonCorps** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:05 pm

Li'l Lemmy wrote:In hindsight, I'm going to go out on a limb here and throw support to what DaemonCorps said about immortality stunting the growth of battle power-- conceivably, it could. Though I tend to think that Vegeta himself would want to disagree, since the whole point to his plan would be not simply eternal life but a potentially unlimited strength. To challenge Freeza with just the eternal life would be pointless, no?

See? Without you here, no one else would re-state what I said in a more smarter-er fashion.

Also, why are some of you guys throwing around the term "zenkai"? Isn't it just another one of those nonsense words from the first ending DBZ theme? Or has it become accepted among fans as a replacement for "power level" (a word which I try to avoid at all costs)?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:14 pm

DaemonCorps wrote:Also, why are some of you guys throwing around the term "zenkai"? Isn't it just another one of those nonsense words from the first ending DBZ theme? Or has it become accepted among fans as a replacement for "power level" (a word which I try to avoid at all costs)?

It's a replacement for "the power boost a Saiyan gets from coming close to death then healing".

the real question is: once you can't die, can you gain power from (for the most part) a near death experience?

Yes. "Near death experience" is not something DNA or cells or whatever recognizes. "Hurt really, really bad" is, which just happens to be something nearly fatal.

If Vegeta can still be injured after becoming immortal, he can still get zenkais.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:28 pm

Li'l Lemmy wrote:The first thing I noticed when I got back, though? Rick's post count. It's jumped by nearly a thousand since I left! Damn, dude-- what, do you live here or something?!

Heh, well technically my endless spamming results with me being "cozy here" at the moment, but I get what you mean.

Rocketman wrote:Yes. "Near death experience" is not something DNA or cells or whatever recognizes. "Hurt really, really bad" is, which just happens to be something nearly fatal.If Vegeta can still be injured after becoming immortal, he can still get zenkais.

Uh, now I'm a bit confused. Could someone define the term 'zenkai' for me, please? Does this apply to saiyans only??
-Rick

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:51 pm

Vegeta said in the original anime that with the right battle plan and immortality he could beat Freeza.

As for not wanting to wish fort immortality anymore, he had no reason to because freeza was already dead (as he thought).

Mystic Jack · Post by **Mystic Jack** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:43 pm

I would actually use Garlic Jr. as a good basis for this issue. I really would but:

1: We don't know if it's because of the Dragon Ball's that he had that huge power up.

2: As was brought up before with a Piccolo Daimao topic, it is possible that eternal life is impossible to achieve and since we have no reliable source on the matter I guess we'll never really know.

And 3: It's filler. Nuff said.

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:21 am

Uh, now I'm a bit confused. Could someone define the term 'zenkai' for me, please? Does this apply to saiyans only??
-Rick

I actually do not know why people are using the term 'zenkai', I've seen it thrown around a lot on the DBU forums a long while back.
Anyways, the term 'zenkai' had these translations on the good ol' Online to English to Japanese dictionary

complete recovery of health
complete destruction
last time, last installment, last session
opening fully, full throttle

The bold one is proably the best that works in this situation.
And yeah, it only applies to Saiyans only. I don't remember any of the humans (or Piccolo) getting a massive power boost after healing from near-fatal experiences...

Kanzenshuu

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