Some Ask-VegettoEX stuff

[707]

I didn't know where else to post this, since I'm going to be talking about more than one specific "session." Anyway, I'll just post it here.

Any question or comment about Piccolo (Ma Jr.) being only 3 years old doesn't really make any sense to me. Piccolo-Daimou crapped out lackey after lackey that were full grown within a short while after their "births" I know that Piccolo was a special circumstance, but he's still a slug monster at heart.

Also, any mention of Dragonball Z: Budokai being developed in the US and ported to Japan is wrong. It was developed by a Japanese company by a Japanese staff. It was produced (ie: Paid For) by an American company, and also had some American sound and graphic technicians. The US funding was why the game was dubbed and released in the US first.

- http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~vegex/gene ... 08.shtml#3

In this question, I think this person is refering to the "DBZ Kids" box set of toys that Jakks Pacific released to Toys R Us last year. They included figures of Goten and Trunks as police officers, and claimed on the box that they were from a one-shot manga by Toriyama. The artwork that you're thinking of had Gohan and Goten dressed as Police Officers. As a matter of fact, a statue was recently released in Japan using this art. I could be wrong about this, though. But I did double check my Daizenshuu to be sure.

- http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~vegex/gene ... 15.shtml#3

The Japanese CCG is completely different from the US CCG. I haven't actually seen any of the cards myself, but the fact that they are original is apparently a big deal on Japanese toy sites.

- http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~vegex/gene ... 2_29.shtml

This... is a dead link.

-
http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~vegex/gene ... 16.shtml#4

This movie was heavily advertised in Japan as the origin of Trunks' sword. Only intelligent fans it would seem are able to tell that there's no way the Trunks from our timeline could have any (eventual) significance involving that sword.

-
http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~vegex/gene ... 11.shtml#8

You fail to mention that Pilaf and Gang aren't dead at all. In Volume 12, on the very next page after being thrown out of the plane by Piccolo-Daimou, they're shown half burried in the ground making zany comments about how weak they are.

I had an anecdote about "Bad Animation Days" and something else I think I wanted to say, but I lost my train of thought so hard somewhere along the way. I can still nerd it up pretty hardcore, though.

[Adamant]

It's Daimaou.

Dai ma ou

Great Demon King

[Ben Plante]

You dare correct 707!? THE 707!? (Is it THE 707? Or a poser).

I mean, you're right, it's Daimao/Daimaou... but still... would you question God, if he's real?

... Yes. I'd ask why he made the wasp. Fucker still hurts...

[Deus ex Machina]

As for Pilaf & gang, I'm pretty sure they survived too...since they appear in the first episode of Dragonball GT, only about 30 years later.

[707]

I didn't bother to check my spelling.

And GT hardly counts as cannon.

And yes, I'm THE 707. Although I didn't really think I had earned such a vague prefix.

[Deus ex Machina]

All of the anime is considered canon, unless it conflicts with the manga. So like it or not, GT does infact count.

[Super Sonic]

I sent in that question the same time someone else did. At the time I never noticed that panel that showed Pilaf and co. were alive. My mistake.

[707]

I'm saying that GT doesn't count because Toei has no idea what they're doing, for the most part, and they included movie characters in their GT timeline that couldn't possibly have existed in the Dragonball timeline.

[Deus ex Machina]

And I'm saying that your general dislike for GT and its plot(holes) doesn't make it any less canon.

[B-kun]

Basically, just consider the anime and manga two seperate enttities. They are not the same. There're enough different plot points to seperate them.

If I hear another "GT's not canon because it doesn't fit in the manga!", I will kill.

Plus, like The S said, If you don't consider all of Dragon Ball canon, none of it is.

[Jerseymilk]

B-kun's right. There are tons of incidents in DB and DBZ that aren't in the manga, so you can't use that as an argument against GT.

[Ben Plante]

I consider the anime and manga to be two seperate canons, as it were. Two universes. It's easier that way.

[707]

Ok then, so what about when the anime contradicts itself?
If you're going to count GT, you may as well count fanfiction.

Besides, the point I was trying to make still stands. GT takes a lot of what ACTUALLY happened in Dragonball and Dragonball GT, and rewrites it or forgets about it in an effort to make a more entertaining story. So whether or not I LIKE it is of little concern to my point, which simply states that GT is full of instances where it directly contradicts the series itself. And that's all that I was saying. Its a cartoon. I have nothing to gain through personal bias.

[Jerseymilk]

We've already said though that DB and DBZ also contradict themselves many a time, so GT isn't the only guilty party here. You may as well hate the entire series if you are going by that way of thinking.

[Xyex]

I don't see two cannon's, I see four. The Manga. The DB/Z anime. The moives. And GT.

[laserkid]

Thats definatly 707 guys so don't be silly

and GT's eh weird. It convieniently forgets things. Like the fact that if Piccolo Daimaou made blkackstar balls they woulkd have disappeared at the very least when Piccolo and Kami merged, much like Kami's Dragon Balls. It also forgets that Dende is the Dragons master and that he could have easily just told the dragons to knock it off or broken the dragon if they didnt listen and build a new one. It also makes some annoying bits, why was Baby so keen on taking over all of the saiyans excepting Goku and Pan? Maybe it was initial spite? But if thats it why take Trunks, he tried to kill Baby outright very early on. And then if you want to say its power based in either direction Pan would have been an easy target and Goku would have been the strongest Baby could have taken so yeah.

GT's not cannon in my book mainly because it just doesnt make any fucking sense - the same way I dont count the Garlic Jr saga of DBZ and many (but certainly not all) fillers in DB/Z. I also dont really count that post 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai filler in DBV where goku went to the bubble ror whatever since it doesnt seem to fit with the later stories on the afterlife. Am I a nerd? yeah, I'm a nerd, but then we all are since we're arguing about cartoons.

[Deus ex Machina]

and GT's eh weird. It convieniently forgets things. Like the fact that if Piccolo Daimaou made blkackstar balls they woulkd have disappeared at the very least when Piccolo and Kami merged, much like Kami's Dragon Balls.

You may be right, but think of it this way. "The Namek" made the Black Star Dragonballs, then split into Kami and Daimao, making them inert. But then Kami and Ma Jr. fused again, creating the original namek, so it's possible that caused them to become active again.

It also forgets that Dende is the Dragons master and that he could have easily just told the dragons to knock it off or broken the dragon if they didnt listen and build a new one.

Destroying the original dragon model may not have affected the Shinrons at all, since they were born of the "Evil" Shenlong, who was much different from regular Shelong. Besides their would still be all that minus energy in the dragonballs, released all at once it might've destroyed the Earth.

It also makes some annoying bits, why was Baby so keen on taking over all of the saiyans excepting Goku and Pan? Maybe it was initial spite? But if thats it why take Trunks, he tried to kill Baby outright very early on. And then if you want to say its power based in either direction Pan would have been an easy target and Goku would have been the strongest Baby could have taken so yeah.

Well Pan was way too weak to be of any use to Baby (and she would be a crucial plot device in helping Goku reach SSJ4 later on), as for why he never tried possesing Goku...well, that doesn't make much sense to me either. The only thing I could think of, is that Goku is pretty much all that's left of the Saiyan race, and his revenge isn't complete until he kills him. (You would think he would harbour more hatred for Vegeta, since it was his father who led the destruction, but whatever...)

GT's not cannon in my book mainly because it just doesnt make any fucking sense - the same way I dont count the Garlic Jr saga of DBZ and many (but certainly not all) fillers in DB/Z.

Good thing I didn't buy your book then Whether you like it, or whether it makes any sense, makes no difference. And don't diss the Garlic Jr. saga, one of the only tolerable filler in DBZ.

Am I a nerd? yeah, I'm a nerd, but then we all are since we're arguing about cartoons.

Yes...yes we are. But you so more than me. [/b]

[laserkid]

eh diffrences in opinion and it still doesnt make sense. How does negative energy get into dragon balls.

And the Black Star Balls were supposedly madfe by Dai Mao, not the original at least thats what GT says.

and then theres the fact that they were all sourced from the dragon balls which were dendes creation, he could have tossed them into oblivion if he wanted to. Kami was happy to let the dragon balls rot after they were destroyed by Dai Mao. Which leads another question why did he evn make them and not use them? they destroy the planet bit, maybe but why make them that way if you can make your own wishes? See it gets complicated.

As for Garlic Jr it in and of itself works but what it pulls from (DBZ Movie 1) could never really happen so its pretty dumb, and has its own problems of just being boring

[B-kun]

And the Black Star Balls were supposedly madfe by Dai Mao, not the original at least thats what GT says.

No they were created by the ORIGINAL Namekian, before Kami, Daimaou,etc.

Which leads another question why did he evn make them and not use them?

I'm going by the same excuse I used for Bulma creating the time machine in DBZ movie 13. "Too much free time"

As for Garlic Jr it in and of itself works but what it pulls from (DBZ Movie 1) could never really happen so its pretty dumb, and has its own problems of just being boring

Well, you can always take Mr. Popo's flashbacks as the only proof and ignore the actual movie. <_<;;

[Dayspring]

And the Black Star Balls were supposedly madfe by Dai Mao, not the original at least thats what GT says.

No they were created by the ORIGINAL Namekian, before Kami, Daimaou,etc.

Which leads another question why did he evn make them and not use them?

My question: "Kamicollo" is dead. What exists now is a fusion of Kami, Daimaou's SON, and Nail. WTF is keeping these DBs kicking?! Shouldn't they have reverted back to ordinary rocks? Even if you argue that it's because it takes at least Kami to keep them alive, Piccolo is no longer a simple ryuzoku: he's well over 2/3 combattant-class.