Do you think that SSJ1 Goku could beat King Cold?

[jjgp1112]

Was King Cold possibly a match for Goku at SSJ?

[Godo]

If he didn't transform, Goku could probably beat him. If he did transform, Goku wouldn't.

Freeza said that he together with his father could beat Goku. Trunks killed them both easily, and Goku was stronger than Trunks...

I guess that if King Cold's transformations worked like Freeza's, he would rise his powerlevel quite a bit if the could transform. If he has two transformations left, and he was as strong a Freeza's max (which we don't know) he would be quite stronger than Goku.

But still, as he didn't transform against Trunks, he probably wasn't able to, and in that case, he couldn't beat Goku.

[Tsukento]

If he didn't transform, Goku could probably beat him. If he did transform, Goku wouldn't.

Freeza said that he together with his father could beat Goku. Trunks killed them both easily, and Goku was stronger than Trunks...

Remember that in Trunks' timeline, it was Goku who killed Freeza and Cold. Trunks merely fucked things up by getting in the way when he thought Goku wouldn't be able to make it in time to stop Freeza and Cold in the past timeline since he wasn't aware of Goku's Instantaneous Movement.

[Drunken Master]

Yeah, Goku blocked Trunks' sword attacks with one finger. SUPA SAIYAJIN FINGA!

[Rocketman]

Yeah, Goku blocked Trunks' sword attacks with one finger. SUPA SAIYAJIN FINGA!

That was badass.

Anyways, Goku was far superior to his power on Namek, and Freeza's statement should not be taken at face value because he can't sense power levels. He thought he could kill Goku with that final attack, after all.

So, SSJ Goku would've pimp-slapped both of them. Then their heads would explode.

[Alice]

SSJ Goku for the win.

...But that would happen regardless of who was more powerful, this is Dragonball: Goku Saves Everyone, you know.

I'm having flashbacks to elementary school, this is a lot like those story problems in math. "If A has the power to defeat B and C can defeat A..."

[Cosmodious]

SSJ Goku beat the heck out of Freeza even after using all of his energy and then transforming.

Trunks beat King Cold easily and Goku fought Trunks, even though it wasn't a real fight, and Goku was stronger.

So Goku would totally win against King Cold.

[Godo]

What do you think would happened if King Cold transformed then?

[Adey]

Didn't one of the earthlings say something about an evil more terrible power than Freeza's? You can take this two ways;

King Cold has one of those "evil" Ki's, or he is actually stronger than Freeza in whatever form he's in (mostly accepted that he's in his second form at the time since he's so tall).

I believe he's in his second form, since he's so tall it sort of fits his kingly image to be so physically imposing over everyone else. I think if he transformed to his final and natural form, he'd probably be even or a little bit stronger than Trunks.

[Tsukento]

There's sort of a slight problem. Cold never stated he could transform. Excluding Coola since he's not canon, Freeza is the only one we know can transform. This was to lessen the amount of power he'd go crazy with. For all we know, Cold's appearance could merely be his only form.

[Kaboom]

There's sort of a slight problem. Cold never stated he could transform. Excluding Coola since he's not canon, Freeza is the only one we know can transform. This was to lessen the amount of power he'd go crazy with. For all we know, Cold's appearance could merely be his only form.

But Freeza and his family's transformations aren't those in the traditional sense; their "final" form is their true form, and all the forms before that are designed to hold back that enormous power, letting a little bit more leak through with each form.

I believe that the stronger one of Freeza's race becomes in their "true" form, the more of these restraint forms they gain. Kold appeared to be in, what, the second form? Assuming he isn't as strong as Freeza, I think the form we saw him in may have been the "highest" of those restraining forms he had.

[Kunzait_83]

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[Duo]

Didn't one of the earthlings say something about an evil more terrible power than Freeza's? You can take this two ways;

Though I feel the post before this concludes the thread (or at least that point) very well, I will point out that this statement is something of a common misconception, because it isn't to be found in the subtitles of the Japanese version, nor the Manga. They mainly just reference "a Ki comparable to Freeza's".

[Xyex]

I believe that whole notion of the forms being supressions of his power was thrown out by the time he got to his fourth form. Toriyama made no notes to Toei that Cooler couldn't have a 5th form and, in fact, designed said fifth form I believe.

Also, Freeza could have been simply gloating in claiming his 4th as his true form. Much as I wouldn't have put it passed Vegeta to have called SSJ his true form after he obtained it. It's not that it's his 'true form' but it's the form he believes shows his superiority and thus, to him, it would be him.

Or, alternatively, Freeza was simply born in that form. Such as if Goten would have been born with golden hair and teal eyes. That doesn't really make it his 'true' form but it could be considered his 'original' form. I've never put much weight in Freeza's claims about his forms when viewed in the light of later events. Such as Cold apparently being in the second form and obviously being unable to transform (he would have done so against Trunks if he could).

[Captain Awesome]

There's sort of a slight problem. Cold never stated he could transform. Excluding Coola since he's not canon, Freeza is the only one we know can transform. This was to lessen the amount of power he'd go crazy with. For all we know, Cold's appearance could merely be his only form.

I'm going to have to agree, I think Cold would of transformed if he could, rather than grasping for straws with the whole "magic sword" dealio.

[Tsukento]

But Freeza and his family's transformations aren't those in the traditional sense; their "final" form is their true form, and all the forms before that are designed to hold back that enormous power, letting a little bit more leak through with each form.

I believe that the stronger one of Freeza's race becomes in their "true" form, the more of these restraint forms they gain. Kold appeared to be in, what, the second form? Assuming he isn't as strong as Freeza, I think the form we saw him in may have been the "highest" of those restraining forms he had.

I'm well aware of the whole transformation thing. That's why I said Freeza had different forms to supress his power. But like I said, throwing Coola out of the picture due to not being canon with the original source material, we have King Cold as being the only family member we know of existing in Freeza's line. He never states he could transform, either. So we really can't just throw assumptions that the ability to transform is a part of Freeza's family when we only have Freeza being able to do it and not hearing a word about Cold being able to do so.

The primary point is, yes, Goku was fully capable of killing the two and did so in Trunks' past. Trunks merely interefered with the past time without knowing Goku could simply teleport to Freeza and Cold and beat them. We also clearly see Goku blocking all of Trunks' sword slashes with just a finger and without much movement. Thus proving Goku was even superior to Trunks, who was perfectly capable of killing Freeza and Cold and had just finished doing so.

[Kaboom]

So we really can't just throw assumptions that the ability to transform is a part of Freeza's family when we only have Freeza being able to do it and not hearing a word about Cold being able to do so.

But didn't Freeza himself state that his "4th" form was actually his true/normal/"base" form, and that the purpose of the others was to hold his power back? He and Kold are the same species and all, so I don't see why it wouldn't be the same for him. But I'm saying that I think that Kold is weaker than Freeza, and thus has and needs less of those forms to restrain his power.

[Xyex]

So we really can't just throw assumptions that the ability to transform is a part of Freeza's family when we only have Freeza being able to do it and not hearing a word about Cold being able to do so.

But didn't Freeza himself state that his "4th" form was actually his true/normal/"base" form, and that the purpose of the others was to hold his power back? He and Kold are the same species and all, so I don't see why it wouldn't be the same for him. But I'm saying that I think that Kold is weaker than Freeza, and thus has and needs less of those forms to restrain his power.

>.>

Also, Freeza could have been simply gloating in claiming his 4th as his true form. Much as I wouldn't have put it passed Vegeta to have called SSJ his true form after he obtained it. It's not that it's his 'true form' but it's the form he believes shows his superiority and thus, to him, it would be him.

Or, alternatively, Freeza was simply born in that form. Such as if Goten would have been born with golden hair and teal eyes. That doesn't really make it his 'true' form but it could be considered his 'original' form. I've never put much weight in Freeza's claims about his forms when viewed in the light of later events. Such as Cold apparently being in the second form and obviously being unable to transform (he would have done so against Trunks if he could).

[Cold Cobra]

But again, all of this is strictly conjecture; in the end Cold’s ability or inability to transform is sort of like the question of “how was Majin Buu able to devolve back into his original form after Fat Buu was removed from his body?”, or “what did Artificial Human’s 1 through 7 and 9 through 12 look like?”, or “how the hell was Mr. Satan able to survive Perfect Cell bitch slapping him into a mountain?”, or “why don’t more chicks fall for Muten Roshi’s wily and seductive charms?”

We’re just not meant to know.

I thought Buu reverted to his original form because Dai-Kaioshin and South (I think) Kaioshin were inside Fat Buu's head, therefore when Fat Buu was un-absorbed, so were Dai and South, therefore un-doing all the absorbing that was done before...

Er, sorry about going off topic...

ON TOPIC:

Yes SSJ Goku could and in fact DID beat King Cold, we just never saw it. I always liked the thought of King Cold having a transformation. I made a sketch of it somewhere...

[gohanku]

Maybe King Kold is already in his final form, but being weaker than his son, he doesn't have the power to turn into a 4th form. Or he is already in his 4th form but doesn't look like it due to age. I am going either way.