Goku question

[bardock013]

I was wondering why Goku never used Kaio-Ken after beating Freeza? (Besides Movies and Fillers) Did Toriyama completely forget about it?
I mean maybe if Goku would have used it against Kid Buu at Super Saiyan 3 wouldn't he have been able to beat him more easily? Or is Kaio-Ken useless now because of Super Saiyan transformations?

[Conan the SSJ]

I was wondering why Goku never used Kaio-Ken after beating Freeza? (Besides Movies and Fillers) Did Toriyama completely forget about it?
I mean maybe if Goku would have used it against Kid Buu at Super Saiyan 3 wouldn't he have been able to beat him more easily? Or is Kaio-Ken useless now because of Super Saiyan transformations?

Well, in the manga universe mind you, there's basically no reason to use it again after he becomes Super Saiyan. In his normal form, the Kaioken burst lasts in Goku for a very brief time, whereas a Super Saiyan transformation is just as powerful and can last for much longer. So you see, it's not that Goku can't go Kaioken again, it's just he really doesn't need to when there's a much better option for him. As for why he doesn't use it at an ascended level, as you suggested for Super Saiyan 3, I believe the theory that his body would be destroyed would actually happen if the Kaioken were used in a transformed level. In the anime timeframe, there is that whole issue that Goku uses it against Pikuhan while at SSJ, however a basic explanation for that can be found around in the Kid Buu battle. Here, Goku informed Vegeta that while dead, he had virtually an unlimited amount of Ki and could never be fatigued (in addition to the fact his "dead" body was practically indestructible), so being able to perform a Kaioken burst while at SSJ is nothing compared to training long periods of time at his 100% SSJ3 level.

[Casual Matt]

As much as I hate DBZ math...

Super Saiyan > Kaioken

Once Goku could transform, Kaioken became obsolete because it was more strain to less effect. Super Saiyan 3, though, may have more strain, but it's boost is still far greater.

And if you want to count anime only scenes, then Goku used a Super Kaioken against Paikuhan, but only for a second. The strain of Super Saiyan and Kaioken must be difficult to maintain for more than a few moments. And Super Saiyan 3 and Kaioken... that's got to be practically impossible.

[bardock013]

Ah, I see. I wasn't sure if you could "stack" both transformations or not. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Ex-Dubbie369]

I believe that Goku said in the RoSaT that SSJ puts strain on the body, thus why he and Gohan trained to make it like their natural state. Other than the "He was dead" theory, one could assume that he could possibly use the Kaio-Ken in SSJ form now since he has mastery over it. The higher levels, SSJ3 in particular, cause enough stress themselves that it would probably take a lot more training to master them and become "Full Power" like SSJ was.

[Kak]

Kaioken would have been great for characters like Piccolo and the humans who don't have the SSJ option. Too bad Kaio was such an asshole and gave Goku special treatment.

[Son_Gohan]

Kaioken would have been great for characters like Piccolo and the humans who don't have the SSJ option. Too bad Kaio was such an asshole and gave Goku special treatment.

He probably thought only Goku's body could handle it...

More so, a Saiyan body.

[Maphisto86]

Still I have always wondered if Kaioken technique could have allowed the human and other non-Saiyajin characters to get an equal footing. Then again perhaps your right Son_Gohan. During Goku's first battle against Vegeta, Kaioken took a lot out of him. It seems to be a very powerful boost but once it's used it puts a lot of pressure on the body. It would make sense to toss it unless you knew your body could handle the strain for a period of time.

[Rocketman]

Still I have always wondered if Kaioken technique could have allowed the human and other non-Saiyajin characters to get an equal footing.

BWAHAHAHA

They can ramp up the Kaioken until their eyeballs explode from their sockets, that playing field is staying as level as the Alps.

[Darkprince410]

Still I have always wondered if Kaioken technique could have allowed the human and other non-Saiyajin characters to get an equal footing. Then again perhaps your right Son_Gohan. During Goku's first battle against Vegeta, Kaioken took a lot out of him. It seems to be a very powerful boost but once it's used it puts a lot of pressure on the body. It would make sense to toss it unless you knew your body could handle the strain for a period of time.

The only reason that it was taking such a toll on his body was because he was using it at a level far beyond what Kaiou-sama had conditioned his body for (since he didn't have the time to condition him to use any level past the 2x Kaiou-ken). The 2x Kaiou-ken didn't really cause any discernable problems for him, it was only when he was forced to use the 3x did the strain become apparent. So it's not necessarily just using it that's difficult, it's using it at a level beyond what the user is trained to readily handle that is.

I'm sure given enough time, the human members of the Z Senshi that trained with Kaiou-sama would have been able to attain and master the Kaiou-ken had he taught it to them. It just probably would have taken longer.