Dr. Gero turning himself into an android

Agent_J · Post by **Agent_J** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:30 am

Okay we all know Dr. Gero created Android 19 because he thought an energy absorbing model would be easier to control, but why would he turn himself into one when their so weak? why didn't he turn himself into the same type of android as 17/18 or even better 16?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:47 am

Perhaps it was beyond what he was capable of doing to himself. Plus, for all he knew, he would never need to use or rely on 16, 17, and 18. He wasn't expecting to be fighting Super Saiyans, so he probably figured that power around that of himself and 19 would have been plenty.

Gyt Kaliba · Post by **Gyt Kaliba** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:49 am

How did he perform the operations on himself anyway? I've heard the theory of 19 having been his assistant in the operation and performed them to his specifications, but as I've never seen/heard proof I treat it as fanon. Is this possible?

Agent_J · Post by **Agent_J** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:50 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:He wasn't expecting to be fighting Super Saiyans, so he probably figured that power around that of himself and 19 would have been plenty.

but still, even if he thought himself and 19 would have been enough, wouldn't it have been more prudent to ensure absolute victory by making yourself as powerful as possible (i.e. becoming a 16/17/18 type android)?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:00 am

Agent_J wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:He wasn't expecting to be fighting Super Saiyans, so he probably figured that power around that of himself and 19 would have been plenty.
but still, even if he thought himself and 19 would have been enough, wouldn't it have been more prudent to ensure absolute victory by making yourself as powerful as possible (i.e. becoming a 16/17/18 type android)?

He could also have been going for something stable and reliable, which 16, 17, and 18 were not. Their flaws were in their behavior, granted, but who knows?

Agent_J · Post by **Agent_J** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:17 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:Their flaws were in their behavior, granted, but who knows?

haha indeed, which is why I am wondering why Dr. Gero didn't turn himself into a 16/17/18 model given that he would not share their behavioural flaws...

Dark Vegeta-Sama · Post by **Dark Vegeta-Sama** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:39 am

Anyone want to tackle the question of "why didn't Androids 19 and 20 exist in Trunks' original timeline?"

That one was never discussed at all in the series, but it seems to be a gross discrepancy that should have been addressed.

And it can't just be that Trunks coming to the past changed the timeline; that's a cop-out answer and Gero didn't even know about Trunks anyway.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:33 am

Re: "Why did Gero choose a stupid model for himself?" Perhaps the nature of the combat systems for #17 and #18 were linked somehow to the programming of the mind, and since Gero's greates asset was his intelligence, he wasn't willing to risk programming himself? Meh.

Re: "#19 and #20 Vs Trunks?".
Well, just... making crap up now. Perhaps #19 and #20 did in fact attack in Trunks' timeline; after all, it's not like the Z-senshi would have been there to fight them and that island nine miles southwest of south city was probably taken out without resistance.
Unless, of course, #19 and #20 showed up because Gero noticed that Goku was heading for the iland, which ... would that have happened in Trunks' timeline? And who all would have been there? Etc. These things could well affect Gero's decisions on how to launch his attack.
We know that Trunks didn't know the location of Gero's lab, that Goku died before the battle since his heart virus hit sooner, and that Trunks still somehow knew the time and place of the first attack...

gohanku · Post by **gohanku** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:55 am

"Why Gero became like #19 instead of #16, #17 and #18?"
I am guessing it's a money issue. Limitless energy got to be extremely expensive. So after creating those three androids, maybe he had only enough money to create Android #19 and to turn himself to something like 19. So wanting to take revenge with his bare hands, he decided to become a cyborg. IMO.

"Why didn't Androids 19 and 20 existed in Trunks' original timeline?"
I think I might know this, Dr Gero was dumber in Trunks' timeline, he decided to activate #17 and #18 instead of building #19 and turning himself into #20. And "But wouldn't that make the androids attack earlier?", maybe he was extremely confident and waited for Goku to come back, then spend time to check if Goku changed/gotten stronger since getting away from Earth.

Gogeta 00 · Post by **Gogeta 00** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:28 am

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:Anyone want to tackle the question of "why didn't Androids 19 and 20 exist in Trunks' original timeline?"

That one was never discussed at all in the series, but it seems to be a gross discrepancy that should have been addressed.

And it can't just be that Trunks coming to the past changed the timeline; that's a cop-out answer and Gero didn't even know about Trunks anyway.

Didn't #17 and 18 kill dr.gero in trunks timeline?

Dark Vegeta-Sama · Post by **Dark Vegeta-Sama** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:20 pm

gogeta 00 wrote:Didn't #17 and 18 kill dr.gero in trunks timeline?

Yes, but that really shouldn't have had any bearing on the existence of Androids 19 and 20. It's not like 17 and 18 attacked the Z-Warriors any earlier in that timeline.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:17 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:How did he perform the operations on himself anyway? I've heard the theory of 19 having been his assistant in the operation and performed them to his specifications, but as I've never seen/heard proof I treat it as fanon. Is this possible?

It was mentioned in the series that #19 was created to help Gero turn himself into an android, in the conversation between Gero and #17 right before #17 kills him.

Gyt Kaliba · Post by **Gyt Kaliba** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:23 pm

Really? Was this in the manga or just the original Japanese version, cuz it wasn't stated in the dub.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:48 pm

It's in the kanzenban manga, so I'd assume it was in the tankoubon and Viz's translation. The line is in chapter 350, which would be DBZ 156 for Viz, GN 14 I think. Fourth page in, third panel.

Gyt Kaliba · Post by **Gyt Kaliba** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:58 pm

Thanks for clearing that up for me Herms.

Ya can't blame for me for taking all info I haven't seen for myself with a grain of salt unless I see proof first though, not with all the crazy stuff that's always being put online.

Gogeta 00 · Post by **Gogeta 00** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:01 pm

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:
Yes, but that really shouldn't have had any bearing on the existence of Androids 19 and 20. It's not like 17 and 18 attacked the Z-Warriors any earlier in that timeline.

But what if they killed gero before he completed 19?

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:35 pm

About 19 and 20 in the future: we see in the anime, at least, that Gero is already a cyborg. If this is true, then #19 must exist as well, because A: Gero needed him to become a cyborg and B: why would he be #20 if there wasn't a #19?
On "that fateful day", 17 and 18 kill Gero and head off. It's possible that they killed #19 along with Gero, or perhaps it was deactivated and destroyed along with the lab (and #16, as well).
In the main timeline, Trunks' and Cell's timetravel causes 19 and Gero to survive and apparently Gero managed to improve 17 and 18 (making them more powerful as well as less evil).

On a related note, what makes 19 and Gero move to the same island at the same time? Surely 17 and 18 picked a random city to start their terror, why did 19 and Gero go there? Perhaps it was the closest city? Or was there something else to be done there?

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:52 pm

I know this seems a bit far-fetched, but maybe 19 and 20 showed up but the Z-Senshi killed them or 19 for that matter, and 17 and 18 came out and then killed the whole Z-senshi. Seems entirely possible to me, since all of the Z-senshi died, maybe no one told Gohan or Bulma about 19. Since they didn't know when the androids would attack in the original time line, maybe only vegeta fought 19, and killed him, but then got killed by 17 and 18. This all sounds quite possible to me.

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:01 pm

Hmmm, we know Gero got killed by 17 and 18, but it could indeed be that 19 and 20 attacked earlier. Someone kills 19 and almost kills 20, too, but he gets away and goes back to the drawing boad - only to be killed by 17 and 18 there. This could all happen after 19 was built and Gero became 20.
Since they would've been no match for Vegeta and the Z-warriors, they wouldn't know what to make of 19 and 20 and never linked their appearance to 17 and 18. Then again, they must have seen 19 was an android and they knew 17 and 18 were cyborgs... seems odd, still.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:52 pm

Well, in Trunks' timeline, the Z-folks weren't looking out for the Androids, right? It's entirely possible that Vegeta was out on his own and defeated #19 without anyone observing the battle, or at least not showing up until after it had began, because ... how would they have known about the attack on the first city? And this leads to Gero retreting, #17 and #18 coming out, Etc. So since no one saw what happened in that first attack, all they would know is when it happened and that it followed the pattern of the Androids (because a catachlism like that had time to be recorded before #17 and #18 killed everyone). So that would ... urm... sorta kinda slightly explain how Trunks knew the exact time and place but not that there were other androids?