How strong are ....?

wolfkid · Post by **wolfkid** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:32 pm

Exactly how strong is King Cold? Vegeta said there was another one with Frieza who was stronger than Frieza. But that doesn't make sense, because King Cold has the second form of Frieza??

And another thing, how strong are KaioShin and Kibito exactly? KaioShin couldn't do damage to Fat Buu and we never saw Kibito fight. Dabura kills him with one blast.
Together they should be very strong with the fusion. But in GT he runs away for Mr.popo and Dende, but that's GT

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:50 pm

King Cold is supposed to be stronger than Freeza, but we never really hear of IF he can transform or what the deal is with their race's various forms, anyway. I doubt Toriyama thought that far into it.

Kaioshin is supposed to be much stronger than Freeza, I believe. I don't know about Kibito, but I imagine he's not too much weaker. I imagine they're much weaker than Perfect Cell, since Dabura was said to be on about the same level as him, and especially since Gohan had so much trouble fighting him. It's hard to place them EXACTLY, though. I'd guess Kaioshin may be at the level of Vegeta's USS form. That's just theory, though.

As for GT... just... just ignore it. Please. You'll save yourself a lot of headaches.

In fact, just pretend it doesn't exist.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:05 pm

Yes, in Kaioshin's own words, he and the other Kaioshins were strong enough that they each could've defeated Freeza with one hit. Post fusion, I'd place Kaioshins power level on the same level as USSJ Vegeta, but that's just my own personal speculation. The fusion should've (and probably did) make Kaioshin much more powerful, just not enough that he would've been able to help against Super Boo, but maybe he would've been able to match Fat Boo?

GT...Yes, that particular scene bothers me; since even before fusing Kaioshin could've ahnilliated them both without even breaking a sweat. It makes no sense that he would be running scared. Dende can't even fight for christ sakes. My advice, ignore it.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:15 pm

wolfkid wrote:But that doesn't make sense, because King Cold has the second form of Freeza??

You're also assuming that King Cold is in a second form of a four-stage transformation sequence... which is a lot to assume.

wolfkid · Post by **wolfkid** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:40 pm

well, their father and son so I think it should be logical King Cold has also 4 stages.

And for GT, I wished it was never made. I've also said: but that's GT

Nothing about GT is logical.

Post by **TripleRach** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:45 pm

King Kold may look a lot like second-form Freeza, but we have no way of knowing for sure that he transformed into that state. It's just as likely that that's what first-form King Kold looks like.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:46 pm

For all we know Cold could have just been a fully grown version of the first form and NOT had any transformations at all. Or he could have been in stage two and not had any forms beyond it. Either way, he was still stronger than Freeza. Just because he can't transform as for dosen't mean he can't have more power.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:07 pm

wolfkid wrote:Exactly how strong is King Cold? Vegeta said there was another one with Freeza who was stronger than Freeza. But that doesn't make sense, because King Cold has the second form of Freeza??

With that logic you're ignoring the fact that people can get stronger through training+fighting, or just be born a shitload stronger than others. It's like saying non-ssj Goku at the end of the Majin Boo saga has no chance vs Oozaru Vegeta from the Saiyan Saga simply because Goku's not transformed.

wolfkid wrote: And another thing, how strong are KaioShin and Kibito exactly? KaioShin couldn't do damage to Fat Buu and we never saw Kibito fight. Dabura kills him with one blast.

All we know in terms of their strength is that they're capable of destroying people like Freeza with one blow, and that someone with the strength equivalent to Cell's would cause them to be on edge. Goku says it himself to Gohan that Kibito was really strong; he was just caught off guard when Dabura attacked.

wolfkid · Post by **wolfkid** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:17 am

With that logic you're ignoring the fact that people can get stronger through training+fighting, or just be born a shitload stronger than others. It's like saying non-ssj Goku at the end of the Majin Boo saga has no chance vs Oozaru Vegeta from the Saiyan Saga simply because Goku's not transformed.

I don't think King Cold can get stronger with training, just as for Frieza he's a changeling and he has a few stages which makes him stronger. With training he can get more skilled, but more powerful? I doubt that.

Fuujin · Post by **Fuujin** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:32 am

My guess is that Changelings get more powerful with age, so King Cold's base power is larger than Freeza's, but he was probably born with lesser potential than his son and couldn't have achieved anything more than 2nd form. Or maybe he was just too lazy to try? Or maybe he stays in this form because it looks mondo cool? Or maybe he can't stay for a prolonged amount of time in a stronger form, because it would be too much of a strain on his body, like Freeza's 100% power form? Who knows.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:45 am

With training he can get more skilled, but more powerful? I doubt that.

Have you EVER seen an episode of any of the three series?

wolfkid · Post by **wolfkid** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:55 am

too much I guess.

I just don't think changelings can get stronger, they got a limit.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:42 pm

Why? The whole series shows how you can ALWAYS surpass your limits.

wolfkid · Post by **wolfkid** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:08 pm

Yeah, maybe Frieza can reach 200% of his maximum.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:38 pm

Fuujin wrote:My guess is that Changelings get more powerful with age, so King Cold's base power is larger than Freeza's, but he was probably born with lesser potential than his son and couldn't have achieved anything more than 2nd form.

Then how would you explain Coola, Freeza's older brother, being weaker than Freeza when he's in the same form? I always found Cold's form a mystery. Someone suggested once that he COULD transform higher, and when they sensed that he was stronger than Freeza, they were feeling his full power. Their explination being that he chose to remain in his second form to make him more intimidating.

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:31 pm

Well... Cooler is from the movies and not the manga or even the main anime storyline. Though, I do believe Toriyama had a hand in the design...

I think that perhaps King Cold would've looked wierd standing next to Freeza in the same form. They'd be the same height and everything. You just kind of naturally expect a character's more powerful father to be bigger and more menacing, and what better way than with the second form. Maybe King Cold prefers the intimidation of such a form, as compared to Freeza's effeminate, littler perfered first and last forms, so Cold just developed all his strength in that body.

No, I have no idea how it works, either. It's just Dragonball.

I don't think that they were sensing King Cold's power beyond that form, since they had no idea what Freeza was holding back before he changed forms.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:28 pm

wolfkid wrote:Yeah, maybe Freeza can reach 200% of his maximum.

You're looking at it like their power is set and never changes. Just because Freeza's 100% power was 12 million when he fought Goku dosen't mean it wasn't lower before, and couldn't get higher later. It may have only been 11 million when Goku was born for all we know.

Besides, look at the Z fighters. Start of DB Goku wouldn't last two seconds against End of Z Goku.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:15 pm

Well, in the danish translated manga at least, Kold claims multiple times that Freeza is stronger than him. But I doubt the difference between 100% Kold and 100% Freeza is that huge. As for Coola, he's stronger than both, but he's a movie character and doesn't count.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:18 pm

Ugh, didn't the danish manga also claim that Freeza 2nd form had a battle power of 100,000 instead of a million?

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:57 pm

ut calm down! I

Deus ex Machina wrote:Ugh, didn't the danish manga also claim that Freeza 2nd form had a battle power of 100,000 instead of a million?

Quotes in bad english:

Chapter 286:
Freezer: Do you want to know what my battle power is...?
Freezer: It happens to be 530.000! But calm down. I'm not using it all on you!
(He's talking about form 1 here)

Chapter 296:
Freezer: It will be just like shooting sparrows with cannons... My battle power has just passed one million!
(This is right after the transformation)

So yeah, it's fairly accurate, if we just ignore the fact that Freeza is referring to sparrows, which he doesn't know what is. But then again, the narrator makes Judge Dredd references as Gohan recieves his first Saiyaman outfit.[/b]

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