The Final Strength of Human Z-Fighters

[Super 17]

At the end of Z is Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Yamcha or Chaotzu stronger than Freeza? We know Piccolo is. We know all the above are stronger than the ginyu force. Shit all the above is stronger than Garlic Junior, and Androids 19 and 20 ( which is Dr. Gero). I dont see them being stronger than the other Androids, yet alone Cell. Do you guys think they are stronger than Freeza?

[mAcChaos]

There is no way in Hell that they're stronger than 17 and 18, let alone Ginyu.

[SSj_Rambo]

I think that they all maxed out before 70,000. I did an pretty extensive equation to estimate Tenshinhan's power level after his training on Kaio-sama's planet and it put him at around 50,000. I'll get the equation if anyone wants it.

None of the non Saiya-jin Z Senshi (except for Piccolo) could ever handle any of the main villains in DBZ, and Captain Ginyu too for that matter...IMO.

[Forgotten Hero]

I personally think Yamcha, Kuririn, and Tien could beat Captain Ginyu. But Freeza, no! Tien would put up a good fight, but I don't think it would be enough.

[Kroni_Hunter]

First of all, Chaiozu Yamcha and Krillin all stopped training, so their strength has significantly dropped. That being said, the part where they beat the Ginyu force on Kaio's planet is filler, and most likely did not get a very large power increase there after awhile because the Z fighters never get stronger unless they face a new challenge/intensive training regimend. I'd say they'd be lucky to have power levels any higher than Krillin, and he would never be able to touch Frieza in a million years.

[Snail]

I'd say they'd be lucky to have power levels any higher than Krillin, and he would never be able to touch Freeza in a million years.

Thinking strategically, a nice Solar Flare + Kienzan Disc combo can do wonders against Freeza.

[Super 17]

Come on guys I know they are weak and also that the Ginyu Force is filler, but it's safe to say that they are stronger than the whole Ginyu Force, I mean Goku wasen't even trying on them meaning if the gang tried there hardest they could win. But I will agree that Chaoz's limit is probably with Cui.

[SSJ2bardock]

the Ginyu Force is filler

This is news to me, last time I checked they were in the manga.

[Super 17]

the Ginyu Force is filler

This is news to me, last time I checked they were in the manga.

Sorry I meant the part when the human Z fighters defeat them at Kaiosama's place.

[Kid Trunks]

Come on guys I know they are weak and also that the Ginyu Force is filler, but it's safe to say that they are stronger than the whole Ginyu Force

I would agree with that. If for no better reason, because Toriyama probably wouldn't have left them trailing that far behind.

[Xyex]

Tien is likely the strongest and, at best when at his peak strength (likely sometime around the Buu Saga as following that he and the others are getting rather old), even with Captain Ginyu. Krillin likely got up there to near Ginyu levels prior to the Buu era but would have dropped off after not training. And I doubt Yamcha ever broke 60k.

You have to remember, 120,000 is the second most powerful person in the universe and undefeated for at least 24 years. The next closest to him is a group of 3 in the 40k range. This is the cream of the crop, the best the universe has to offer. The human fighters in the series are definitely exceptional fighters but even so they required special circumstances (training with Kami and King Kai (or in Krillin's case, having his power unlocked by Guru)) in order to contend with the midrange and upper-midrange fighters.

And even so, to obtain the levels that they do is still rather impressive. I mean, if Yamcha at his peak strength were to go back to the Namek era he'd be the 3rd most powerful person in the universe (prior to Goku's gravity training and Vegeta's uber-Zenkai). Even at the end of the series they're all still in the top 10 (ignoring 'special cases' like 17, 18, and Uub) in the entire universe.

[SSj_Rambo]

The whole "Dr. Gero confused Yamcha with Goku" part kind of proves Yamcha's weakness compared to a lot of the villains.

The last reading of Goku's power level that Gero got was 24,000 (when he used the Kaio-Ken x3). And since Dr. Gero must have factored in Goku's training, he must have assumed that Goku would be somewhere around 40,000 (after a little over 4 years of training).

Now Yamcha's power level must have been somewhere around this when he was suppressed, so I would assume that his power level when he is powered up would be around 50,000.

[Drunken Master]

There is no way in Hell that they're stronger than 17 and 18, let alone Ginyu.

Whoa, Tenshinhan could have one-shotted Ginyu in the android saga, without the kikoho, seriously. Everyone underestimates the others.

[SSj_Rambo]

Here is the most extensive power level investigation I have ever done. It shows how and why I believe Tenshinhan's power level to be around 11,000 after his training om Kaio-sama's planet.
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-Goku gained 48 power level points a day under his training regimen on Kaio-samasama's planet.

-I believe that Tenshinhan is capable of raising his power level 3/4 (insert your own opinion here) as fast as Goku during this training period.

-That means that Tenshinhan is capable of raising his power level about 36 points a day, in my opinion.

-Since Tenshinhan was on the planet for 265 days and started out with a power level of 1,830 I believe that after his training his power level was around 11,370.

Depending on how much slower you think Tenshinhan gains power compared to Goku (I say about 3/4 as fast, considering not having to learn the Spirit Bomb, and having partners) you are now able to get a pretty accurate (IMO) answer to how strong Tenshinhan was after training under king Kaio. Also, if it is true that the stronger you get the harder it is to make gains in your power level, it would not have slowed down his power increase by much and we would still have a pretty accurate answer whether or not you factored this in (which I did not).
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Then Tien had about 4 years of training until he hit about his peak (assuming that he didn't hit his peak in those 4 years). So 11,370 + 4 years of intense training on Earth = an approximate number for Tenshinhan's highest power level.

[Drunken Master]

If you really want to use calculations, and percentages, then look at this way. Take the power of what Goku was when he died from Piccolo. Find the percent of the increase from 416 to 9000 (was it 9,000? I know it was over 8,000, so it's gotta be like 8500 or something, oh well too late. This is an edit of course). Add that percentage to Ten's power of 1,830. I suck at math, so tell me if a messed up.

416 to 9000 = 2063% increase of power
1830 with 2063% increase = a power level of 37,752

Add the fact that he got trained harder than Goku, longer than Goku, had training partners the whole time, and that the increase would big bigger anyhow because of the story progression, and his power would be at least double that. Just look at how Goku got a decent power up from Kami and Popo, but when Tenshinhan did that training, he went from 250 to 1830. Also look at Piccolo, he stayed at North Kaio's for a short time, and Nail was "astonished" at his power level, which means he far exceeded the normal 3,000 mark of namekian warriors. As the story progresses, it was much easier to gain power, logically it could be the fact that they have more power to work with, meaning they could train harder, and longer, or maybe it was just Mr. Toriyama trying to keep the original cast somewhat powerful for his super strong villians and henchmen.

As for Goku gaining power faster, it can't be by much, because you can't get a zenkai powerup when you're already dead. Nothing is really show up to that point that he gains power faster. He got a cheap drink powerup, and godly training that put him ahead of Tenshinhan in the Saiyan saga power levels.

Now add that power of around at least 60,000 in my opinion to 3 years of extreme training, in which they were told if they weren't strong, then they were gonna die and you're gonna get something really big. I mean those 3 years saw Piccolo reach a whole new level of power, had Tenshinhan strong enough to use his ki to hold down cell, have Gohan nearly turn SSj in the rosat almost immiedately, and of course Goku was super strong as well. And that's normal earth training, that shouldn't have even affected them.

Tenshinhan>Ginyu in the Android Saga in my opinion.

[Super 17]

Wow nice Calculations Drunken Master. I believe I will say that even Kuririn is stronger than Ginyu since he is always helping out and trained with 18 to participate in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai. Yamcha himself said he would embarrased himself if he tried for the tournament and Chaoz is definetely out of the picture

[SSj_Rambo]

I agree that there is a lot of truth to your equations Drunken Master, but the things that I don't agree with are that you assume that Goku and Tien gain power at the same rate. Goku has proven in Dragonball that he is able to increase his power level much more in the same amount of training than Tien, plus the fact that Goku is a Saiya-jin proves that Tenshinhan's overall percent of increase should be much less than Goku's.

Also, it's naturally assumed that the more powerful you get the harder it is to increase you power level, especially if you are a human, or of human decent, or get stronger at a similar rate as a human. This means that Tien would not have gained as much strength as you said because he would have been stronger than Goku was when he got there. That and the fact that after most of his training Tenshinhan's rate of increase would have slowed down.

Just my opinions.

[Drunken Master]

Alright, I'm back from work. What a hectic day.

Goku has proven in Dragonball that he is able to increase his power level much more in the same amount of training than Tenshinhan

When was that proven exactly?

plus the fact that Goku is a Saiya-jin proves that Tenshinhan's overall percent of increase should be much less than Goku's.

How though? Really, the only way the saiyans are so strong is because there always at the end of an ass beating, and at the brink of death. Plus special crap like gravity training and what-not.

Also, it's naturally assumed that the more powerful you get the harder it is to increase you power level, especially if you are a human, or of human decent, or get stronger at a similar rate as a human. This means that Tenshinhan would not have gained as much strength as you said because he would have been stronger than Goku was when he got there. That and the fact that after most of his training Tenshinhan's rate of increase would have slowed down.

That's the thing, everyone got stronger in normal gravity on earth during the three years of training for the androids. Which pretty much kills that debate, after all that times gravity training, normal gravity shouldn't have affected them. Also, when Yamcha gets at Kaio's place in the 10x gravity, he tells Goku that he can barely walk. And he's at 1480 or something.

[Krakabeast]

I believe Tenshinhan would beat Freeza if for some reason Freeza somehow returned again when 17 and Piccolo were fighting. Tenshinhan was holding down Cell (2nd form) pretty well, even though he was killing himself in the process ha ha. And Cell (2nd form) is much stronger than Freeza.

[SSj_Rambo]

Goku has proven in Dragonball that he is able to increase his power level much more in the same amount of training than Tenshinhan

When was that proven exactly?

It was heavily eluded to after Goku and Tien were nearly equal as fighters during the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai and yet after a few years of training Goku had far surpassed Tien despite them both having training by supernatural beings.

plus the fact that Goku is a Saiya-jin proves that Tenshinhan's overall percent of increase should be much less than Goku's.

How though? Really, the only way the saiyans are so strong is because there always at the end of an ass beating, and at the brink of death. Plus special crap like gravity training and what-not.

Tenshinhan's power would not have increased as fast because he would not have received any Zenkai. Also, we have seen that Saiya-jins are naturally more efficient trainers than Tien and the other Z Senshi.