Dragonball IGNO

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Well, I see that during my typical several-month long hiatus, Mike finally caved and added a fanworks section.

So this is going to be the official thread for anything and everything related to the fanfiction I've been idly working on for the past 6 years...

Dragonball IGNO (If GT Never Occurred).

WARNING - WALL OF TEXT AHEAD

Ah...I've never really been good at being succinct when it comes to just saying what needs to be said and getting people interested in reading my story without boring them with information overload...so no doubt going to fuck that up here, as well.

Still, before I plug away with links to the story, art, and etc (because I'd actually like you to understand a little about IGNO before going off and reading it with low expectations), I've got a lot to say about this, on top of my typical bad habit of posting walls of text...but since this is the fanwork section I'm going to hope I won't be penalized for double-posting in my own thread...someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm well-behaved enough in general here to be brave enough to take the risk and know I won't be shitcanned for a double post or two. I just think it'll make it a little easier to organize certain things, if not for everyone else but for myself, as well.

First things first - a little background info about how long I've been working on IGNO and why, and obviously, a synopsis of the story itself (which is in dire need of some updating and revisioning but Hell if I've had time for that in a while), because no one comes to the fanwork section to hear me ramble on and on without at least knowing what it is I'm rambling about.

SO, first, here's a little summary I wrote not too long ago on another forum. It's intentionally written in a cheesy fashion in a sort-of 'parody' of movie trailers and the like, but it should give you a good idea of the story as a whole.

------------------------------------------
DRAGONBALL IGNO SYNOPSIS
------------------------------------------

(Takes place approx. 3 months after the end of Dragonball Z)

When Gokou takes off from the 25th Tenka'Ichi Budoukai with the young Uub, his youngest son is crushed, the father he grew up without having only just returned to him such a short time ago...now leaving him again. And with his brother having become a nerd absorbed in books and his own family, and a mother like Chi-Chi, Goten is just a young 17-year old boy trying to make sense of life like so many of us...only unlike so many of us, Goten is the half-Saiyajin son of the universe's greatest savior.

Caught between the life of fighting and the legacy his father left behind, and the more peaceful lifestyle his brother has taken up, young Goten is just a confused teen who doesn't know what place life has in store for him, and is constantly conflicted by his own desires...do I want to live freely and peacefully? Or do I hunger for the action and excitement that only danger can bring? How do I find the answer for myself? Father? Brother? Why won't you tell me?

Confused, depressed, and just trying to take life one step at a time...that's where we find Goten as IGNO begins, approximately three months after his father has left. The only person left he has to really confide in and be his true self with is his best friend, Trunks, the son of the Saiyajin prince and the man who was Goten's father's greatest rival. But for two boys with fathers so different, Goten and Trunks share an unbreakable and unexplainable bond with one another that transcends everything that's ever been thrown their way.

But when a new danger appears that may threaten their lives once more, will the boys really be up for the challenge? And torn between the desire to protect and maintain peace and the desire to fight...how will Goten handle the sudden turn of events without getting in over his head...?

This is Dragonball IGNO - If GT Never Occurred.

------------------------------------------

That being said...here's the IGNO proper.

------------------------------------------

Dragonball IGNO: The Story
The IGNO story on fanfiction.net. Currently 12 chapters; on hiatus.

Dragonball IGNO: The Artwork
All of my 'official' IGNO artwork on deviantART. Organized in a silly, non-chronological fashion in the order of which I drew them...AKA, most of it's old and not that great.

Dragonball IGNO: The Trailer
Courtesy of littlegoten. Artwork drawn specifically for the trailer this past summer.

Dragonball IGNO: The Webpage
*NEW* The old webpage was outdated and desperate for revision, so I'm currently in the process of rebuilding it. Unfinished.

Dragonball IGNO: The Forum
UNDER [RE]CONSTRUCTION. For the most part functioning, with a few (mainly aesthetic) features yet to be added. Still, feel free to register and start posting!!

Dragonball IGNO: The Spoiler Theatre
UNDER CONSTRUCTION. Basically an archive of all my future ideas and plans for IGNO 5+ years in the making...because I've still never even gotten around to writing the first story arc's worth of them. @_X;

------------------------------------------

I'm going to double-post to rant a little bit on my feelings regarding this ancient story of mine, and then open the thread up for comments.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Okay, and now, I take a moment to rant a bit.

[rant]

Basically, my goal when I created IGNO so long ago was to, as many fans want to, 'right' the wrongs of GT with its various plotholes and overall ruining of the characters. I thought doing away with yet another timeskip was the best place to start - DBZ ends right after one as it is, and we never really get to know Goten and Trunks as teenagers. With Gokou gone, they're the next in line to logically be the new heroes; Pan shouldn't have been thrust so quickly into the spotlight.

I was also tired of seeing that almost every DBZ fanfic I read back in the day (I don't have time to read fics anymore, unfortunately, though I'm sure this problem still runs amok) were stories that were only written so fans could create new fusions and levels of Super Saiyajin or make the heroes all completely out of character, instead leaving inexperienced young Mary Sues to save the day. I thought I could do better...I admit, at the time, I was just another weeaboo DBZ fan myself, but I believed my vision had more potential than a lot of what I was seeing.

If I had to list off a few elements of IGNO that I feel are uncommon in many fics along the similar 'after DBZ ignoring GT' vein, they would be the following:

------------------------------------------

-Not an A/U story; follows directly after the main timeline of Dragonball Z

-Strives hard for a lack of OOC elements to portray the characters as canonically as possible; to capture the true essence of the characters we've come to know and love without making them overpowered for the sake of it

-No new levels of Super Saiyajin; no making old characters achieve higher levels or new and amazing transformations; no making all the characters fuse together because it's OMG KEWL

-A focus on character development and storyline over legions of super-powerful new villains; creativity in battles and enemies that aren't merely new and improved versions of past DBZ villains

-Striving to keep the balance of comedy and action (a-la the Buu Saga) without an overload of angst and drama to bog the story down and make it feel 'un-Dragonball'

-Newly introduced characters do not outshine existing characters on the battlefield and become glory-hogs simply because they are OC's

-New Saiyajin do NOT become more powerful than the existing characters or fulfill the many fanfiction cliches of Saiyajin OC's

------------------------------------------

Now, I'm hoping that since this is the fanworks section everyone here is creative and has an open mind. Really, it's not exactly easy to make a successful fanfiction of such a series as DBZ, because after so many years people are ready to bash certain staple elements at the drop of a hat without giving it a chance to see if the author is capable of actually pulling them off successfully.

IGNO does introduce, early on, some new characters. It does also introduce a handful (3) new Saiyajin, though only one is really prominent until the later story arcs. Still, because of the importance of a new Saiyajin so early on, people judge the character to be a Mary Sue and abandon the story right there, or continue with low expectations. I will flat out say this, yes - I have a Saiyajin OC, and the first story arc heavily revolves around him and his backstory, which is a fan's take on the past of the Saiyajin race. Something that has been done to death, and unfortunately, usually done poorly...but IGNO is much more than that, and the story shouldn't be judged simply on that. My Saiyajin OC doesn't show up and become the most powerful character, he doesn't reach the new and highest levels of Super Saiyajin, he doesn't win every battle and outshine the real main characters, etc.

Not that he's without his flaws and archetypes that can be, if overanalyzed, found cliche, but really...who hasn't used certain archetypes before, or certain staple DBZ-fic techniques in their own work? There is a difference between a character having certain cliche elements to them and being Mary Sues; Hell, if you imagine Dragonball Z is merely someone's fanfiction of the original Dragonball, the series is chock full of them ("O hai thur I am your brother who is an alien from outer space making you also an alien from outer space who was sent here as a baby to extinguish all the life on this planet"). I just feel people are too quick to judge a fanfiction on certain elements without giving them a chance, or, without realizing that there are so many parts of the official series that aren't much different. My belief is that if the author is good enough and can pull it off in a unique and interesting way, then, in a world like that of Dragonball, NO idea is too 'out there'.

I guess I just felt like getting that out, because while Daizenshuu EX is the undisputed greatest online community of [English-speaking] Dragonball fans, we all have the habit of being cynical of other's opinions at times...and I'm not quite sure of the attitude towards fanworks the members of this board are, because this section is new since I was last around. My past experience here has been with people who aren't so open about it, so I guess I wanted to preemptively defend myself, as silly as that may sound. But like it, don't like it, let me know - constructive criticism is what I need to become a better writer, and naturally, I won't bitch and moan if everyone doesn't like my story.

I just want people to approach it with an open mind, and not outright bash it before giving it a chance. Perhaps I'm not as brave as I should be, because I know how merciless people can be on the internet (not to break rules 1 and 2 of the intarwebz, but I know the Internet Hate Machine pretty well) and I should be prepared for it if I'm planning to post my own work on it...but for as many years as I've been a member of this board, I'm such an irregular that I feel like a n00b every time I come back, and I don't want to tarnish my slowly growing reputation here. ><

[/rant]

Now then...I await the opinions and feedback of my fellow members.

[caejones]

I don't think I'll feel bad about rambling on the backstory of my fanfiction anymore.

I don't remember if I commented on /reviewed/whatever IGNO when I read it... ur... was it last year? (What with the anual appearance of SG2, and all...). And it's been so long I shouldn't go into that at this time (with finals and all that. ... Which reminds me that last I heard, you were studying something computer graphics related, while I only now finally managed to write a "outline a character without heads, hands or feet" algarithm so my projects can start sucking less... ).
But something that your Goten analysis reminded me of was another author's take on the character... though I'm not really sure where I'm going with that.
(Oh, fine, I'll go ahead and say that Goten is probably my favorite character. ).

... I think I'll contradict my "finals and papers" excuse and go reread what's posted of IGNO, now.
(Psst: While I probably won't wind up over there, there was a brief "!! ? " moment at seeing the IGNO forum linked in your signature. Come to think of it, though (I don't think I can say this without sounding insensitive, even though it's not all that negative), I don't really know if that was a "ZOMPanda 's'back~!" moment or actual series-fankid-ing (ur, fanchilding? The noun, not the verb...).).
Ur, yeah. I guess I kinda have to go read again to figure out what the fish I'm talking about. I'm weird.

[edit] Ur, wait. My internet doesn't like ff.net. Or... working. Umm... nevermind.[/edit]

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

^^;

I've got my hands full with finals coming up and projects being due, as well, so there's no pressure. I'd actually like to do some revisions to IGNO over the break, though I won't say how likely it is that will happen...

Anyways, I've edited my first post for a few things, so all of the links therein should work, now, including that to the message board.

I'm in the process of re-uploading the chapters to the webpage with some slight tweaks that I feel improve upon the version on FF.net - 1-5 are currently available here. Not that big of a difference, but I think it makes the reading experience a little easier. 6-12 will be added...when I get a chance to do so. ^^;

[Conan the SSJ]

You got interesting and quite cool ideas & concepts, SG2. Liking what I'm seeing so far. Has the very recent special inspired any newer ideas you're thinking of using? I must admit, I'm now kicking myself for getting into Kaboom's GTR, as that is a twin in concept to IGNO. ^^;;

[caejones]

I dunno, Kaboom's GT:R seems more of a "If GT didn't suck", while IGNO seems like something else entirely... though I guess in basic concept they're kinda from the same lot (that being replacing GT).

The internet's being nicer, now!
Something I remember from my first read of IGNO is that the first batch of villains (and it's kinda implied they're mostly introductory... ) manage to be unique, dangerous, Etc without being "zompanda rirudo iz as strong as boo!"... and yet we see the same from the heroes (OCs as well as Goten and Trunks), in such a way that even though they're not fighting planet-wrecking demonic cyborgs (Well, at this point. XD), there's still a lot of weight to the action... which already improves over a lot of fanfics. XD

Still, I see IGNO as more character-driven, definitely... and it's certainly working so far. (The Kori/Trunks 'rivalry' has this "generic anime bantering heroes" feel to it, while still fitting Dragonball very well... and on top of all of that, it still feels unique. I remember being kinda apprehensive about how that'd turn out when we were first introduced to the highschool shinanoguns, yet it turned out pretty well. ).

Hm. Kanba. . . I'm not sure how to react to this.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Has the very recent special inspired any newer ideas you're thinking of using?

Not a bit. The special was really just random fun as I see it; it didn't exactly have any concrete plot elements that would spurr motivation to write an 'epic' like IGNO. It's more the type of material that would inspire fic authors who enjoy writing fun little interludes of the story more than creating their own major story arcs and the like...besides, I'm not really the type of author who's going to look at Table and scream 'ZOMG POTENTIAL' and have him and Vegeta be best buddies and then have Table become an SSJ5 when about the only thing we do learn about him (really, he was only frickin' put in the special to make fans anticipate the special more, because ZOMG VEGETA'S BROTHER!!111ONE!) is that he's not a fighter.

My ideas for IGNO are pretty much going to stick to the basic format I created waaaay back in '04 when I started it up, albeit, of course, modifying it and restructuring it in a way that it's not just a mess of cliches thought up by an obsessed fanboy (I use the term fanboy here because 'fangirl' doesn't so much imply a female fanboy as it does...well, its own slew of stereotypes ^^;;; ).

I do realize there are some...not so much plotholes in the current version of IGNO as just...stupid little unexplained elements...and I'd like to fix those. I mean granted, DBZ has more than its fair share of convenient factors and unexplained story points, but I'm trying to keep the Dragonball feel while at the same time making IGNO more than just a rehashing of the DB formula 'new villain appears, heroes fight, do poorly, train, Gokou is absent from most of the fights for some reason, but in the end is the only one who can win'. I plan on rewriting the existing chapters slightly to correct a few of the things I see flawed, and then (hopefully ^^; ) pick it up and get into the first real story arc that chapter 12 stops just short of.

Something I remember from my first read of IGNO is that the first batch of villains (and it's kinda implied they're mostly introductory... Shocked ) manage to be unique, dangerous, Etc without being "zompanda rirudo iz as strong as boo!"... and yet we see the same from the heroes (OCs as well as Goten and Trunks), in such a way that even though they're not fighting planet-wrecking demonic cyborgs (Well, at this point. XD), there's still a lot of weight to the action... which already improves over a lot of fanfics. XD

Still, I see IGNO as more character-driven, definitely... and it's certainly working so far. (The Kori/Trunks 'rivalry' has this "generic anime bantering heroes" feel to it, while still fitting Dragonball very well... and on top of all of that, it still feels unique.

Thanks I'm glad you see it that way, because that's one of the main things I'm going for with IGNO. Everyone loves DBZ for what it was, but you can't deny that it severely lacked character development in many places where it had potential simply because Gokou always ended up being the one who shined brightest. I'd like to show some deeper aspects of the characters without it becoming an angst-fest as so many fanfic authors looooove to create, but at the same time, making characters feel less... cardboard, I guess...than DBZ.

Hm. Kanba. . . I'm not sure how to react to this.

^^; Yeeeeah, he's kinda rough around the edges character-wise at the moment. One of the things I hope most to accomplish rewriting the first 12 chapters is to make him a little less forward with his mysteriousness (that's an awkward sentence). Namely, not beat the reader over the head so much with the 'hey Kanba's doing some sketchy stuff and Goten's worried he might be a bad guy!!' factor. I take it a little easy on myself regarding him sometimes, because he was my very first OC and he does have some cliche elements to his character that are integral to the story and hard to modify without breaking that, but at the same time, I totally understand readers who don't really know what to feel about him or have a hard time liking him. XD;

[caejones]

Well, I like how Kanba manages to move the plot and other characters so well without falling into the Marysue deathtrap, and how any real cliches with his backstory are justified by how they're tied to the unique villains and plot direction and all.
N, Actually I like Kanba... I'm just not sure how to say much else at the moment.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Thanks I'm glad you see it that way, because that's one of the main things I'm going for with IGNO. Everyone loves DBZ for what it was, but you can't deny that it severely lacked character development in many places where it had potential simply because Gokou always ended up being the one who shined brightest. I'd like to show some deeper aspects of the characters without it becoming an angst-fest as so many fanfic authors looooove to create, but at the same time, making characters feel less... cardboard, I guess...than DBZ.

To be fair, they ain't as cardboard as all that. Way I see it, they just each fall into a rut at particular series points.

Vegeta, for example. The period from his introduction up until his death at the hands of Freeza is something I'd consider a relevant, full-bodied and mostly well done arc of development. Then he's revived by Polunga through a magic twist of author's intervention and ends up in an ongoing pissing contest with Goku for the middle chunk of the series.

We ask, why? Well, Toriyama-sensei found Vegeta "very useful to have around", so I guess that counts. But in terms of story, where's the character value? Sure, he moves the plot along, but he's not really adding anything during that part of it (Cell) that makes him worthwhile as a character, because we've seen it all before in some lesser capacity at various parts of the series beforehand: It repeats itself. We see Vegeta fail a lot, get pissed a lot, curse Kakarott a lot, etc. And it pretty much stays that way up until the events of Boo.

Hell, same with Goku. He's never been extremely three-dimensional, but I see a lot more on him during the original DragonBall than I do the successor series. Because as of Z? Goku plays pretty much the same act all the way through-- as in, the strongest guy all the time, always the underdog, but a perpetual winner no matter what the odds. His singular purpose is to fight. And the harder he fights, the more he becomes trapped into that role throughout the series' run.

At least in DragonBall, he was allowed to explore and experience and enumerate the world. He was single-minded, but still had plenty of outlets for interaction. He had real emotions. (I can't think of a single moment in Z that truly matches up to the depth of pain and desperation he was made to contend with during the Piccolo Daimao arc, and that's including his transformation into Super Saiyajin.) Whereas he meanwhile spends the entirety of Z fighting for the world at the cost of getting to really live in it, with only the occasional sliver of character advancement tossed his way. Fuck, the best, most remarkable and ultimately memorable thing he did during the entire Z series was to step back and let Gohan take a shot.

Goku is half the reason I generally like IGNO. Mainly because he isn't there. Because by the time IGNO is meant to take place, Goku's character is in such a comfortable rut that any attempt to give him the teeniest bit of development would write so strangely that it could never look right or proper, even if it should be logical. He's tried to step down, and that never works. He's even been made to fail, but was continually brought back regardless. The best character development to be given is to write him out completely, and it's the only one that works!!

The other reason I like IGNO is its choice to take a character (Goten) who never really had a chance to develop completely and help him to do so, and in logical ways that don't either mutilate his character or Mary-Sue him to death.

Actually I like Kanba... I'm just not sure how to say much else at the moment.

Yeah, Kanba was okay. I used to like Kanba-- I remember that much.


~Da Lemmy

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

A bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with IGNO

Please keep the discussion relevant to IGNO. Referencing DBZ is obviously fine, but not for like 5 paragraphs before even mentioning IGNO, just because I called the characters cardboard in a sidebar statement. Thank you. >.>

Goku is half the reason I generally like IGNO. Mainly because he isn't there. Because by the time IGNO is meant to take place, Goku's character is in such a comfortable rut that any attempt to give him the teeniest bit of development would write so strangely that it could never look right or proper, even if it should be logical.

Never stopped Toriyama. -_-

The other reason I like IGNO is its choice to take a character (Goten) who never really had a chance to develop completely and help him to do so, and in logical ways that don't either mutilate his character or Mary-Sue him to death.

That's the idea, and one of my favorite things to get in IGNO reviews is being told that Goten fans like my Goten. Especially when most Goten fans are fangirls that think he's cute, and will read anything with Goten in it, portrayed well or not...so I like hearing from the Goten fans that actually are impressed with his characterization, and how he's written so different from most Goten fics, but at the same time, feels more 'Goten'.

Anyways, I didn't get as much done over this Christmas break as I wanted to (classes start tomorrow), but I did rewrite the prologue and create a new 'cover' for 'volume one'. The prologue can be found on the IGNO site in my sig (it's not really worth linking to a recap of the end of DBZ), and here's the cover:



If you care to read the long-winded commentary, here's the page on deviantART.

[caejones]

"... You still call it Kamekameha?"

Hm. One of the things that kinda made me "o_o?" first time through was Goten's ... hem... 'argument?' with Gohan. 'Course, it makes sense and all; it's one of those things that seems so new to the character that I wasn't sold on it at first. (O_O I did get around to rereading parts of IGNO... just not that part. Hmm.).

Umm, and there was that one fic, with the hotel, and the non-copyright-infrenging lunchbox-shaped game system, and... yeah... First chapter = totally in character. XD. *wonders if the lack of mentioning chapter two will effectively divert anyone suspecting the reading of it* ... Well, I can't tell if my small text tags work or not, so I'm not trying it... o.o.