Stamping Out Badfic: The Fanfiction Workshop

[Rocketman]

I looked back a year in this section and didn't see a thread like this, so my apologies if this's already been done.

But, I think we could use a Fanfiction Workshop thread here; a centralized place to bounce ideas off each other, share writing or characterization tips, or even to ask if something we want to do in our fic is too cliche or mary-suish.

To give a sense of organization, allow me to lay down some guidelines:

1. You are here to help, not dictate.

Help the person asking with their ideas, not your own. If they want to write about Gohan being the first and only Super Saiyan, don't be all "Bah, that's dumb, you should write about Tien!".

Likewise, if your advice is decided against by the author, don't be an ass about it.

2. Be nice.

I know how strange this sounds coming from me, but an advice thread isn't much good if people don't venture into it for fear of being torn apart. By all means, call people out if they drag in a "LSSJ7 BURORI VS SSJ8 GOKUUH" fic idea, but do it at least kinda politely.

The flip side of this, of course, is...

3. Accept criticism.

You came into this thread to get advice, not to get fellated on your wondrous saga of Broly-kun.

Somewhat related is: don't get impatient. People are doing this for free and on their own time, so don't get all pissy if you don't get an immediate response.

4. Don't pimp your fic.

Linking to your fic to give an example of your writing, show how you did something similar, or the like is all well and good, but don't go trawlling for readers.

Likewise, don't demand credit for your advice. Again, this is a help thread, not your ticket to stardom and whores.


I doubt I really needed to say all this for this community (aside from #2 )


So, my own question:

When writing a fic that diverges from a canon point, how much of the original show should be kept? Say, for example, you wanted to write a fic that's a rewrite of original Dragonball, but the story doesn't really go in a different direction until...oh, say when Goku and Bulma meet Turtle.

Is it better to start from the beginning when Goku and Bulma meet, even though you don't change anything of that first day, or is it better to start that morning, right as your changes begin, perhaps with a short blurb at the beginning saying where you are in the story?

[Sprite Satan]

When writing a fic that diverges from a canon point, how much of the original show should be kept? Say, for example, you wanted to write a fic that's a rewrite of original Dragonball, but the story doesn't really go in a different direction until...oh, say when Goku and Bulma meet Turtle.

Is it better to start from the beginning when Goku and Bulma meet, even though you don't change anything of that first day, or is it better to start that morning, right as your changes begin, perhaps with a short blurb at the beginning saying where you are in the story?

Narrate it. Even the manga sometimes had a "when we left our heroes" type recap. That way you instantly bring people to speed in a better style than "Hay gaiz, my story starts around here, ok?".

That'd be my advice.

[Kaboom]

This is a great idea for any forum with a fanworks section. Provided it catches on, I'd call for it to be stickied.

When writing a fic that diverges from a canon point, how much of the original show should be kept? Say, for example, you wanted to write a fic that's a rewrite of original Dragonball, but the story doesn't really go in a different direction until...oh, say when Goku and Bulma meet Turtle.

Is it better to start from the beginning when Goku and Bulma meet, even though you don't change anything of that first day, or is it better to start that morning, right as your changes begin, perhaps with a short blurb at the beginning saying where you are in the story?

I suppose it depends on just what those changes are going to be. If, for example, there would be villain who's been watching Goku and Bulma, and ends up BEING the cause for the divergence or something, then you might want to build up to it.

Assuming that's not the case though, I'd say it's better to start closer to the point where things diverge. Things get underway quicker and easier that way, and it helps keep your fic's first couple chapters from just looking like a "novelization" of stuff the readers already know. That is, provided they DO already know what happens.

Considering that, I'd say just make sure it's perfectly clear to the readers that what's happened so far is exactly the same as they already know it. Do it narratively, or have the characters talk about it, or whatever. Just make sure it's clear to the readers.

[Xyex]

When writing a fic that diverges from a canon point, how much of the original show should be kept? Say, for example, you wanted to write a fic that's a rewrite of original Dragonball, but the story doesn't really go in a different direction until...oh, say when Goku and Bulma meet Turtle.

Is it better to start from the beginning when Goku and Bulma meet, even though you don't change anything of that first day, or is it better to start that morning, right as your changes begin, perhaps with a short blurb at the beginning saying where you are in the story?

I've done it both ways and found that both have their good points and bad points. Retelling the whole thing can be dull for the reader, even if there are some minor change, but it makes sure everyone's on the same page right off the bat. However, picking up mid story, at the point of divergence, can make the story seem a little less complete.

My suggestion is, if the start is exactly the same or similar to the series, and there's no real need to show it to make the story 'whole' then just do a a 'recap' of sorts. Have a short narration, either from the narrator or from one of the characters, that touches on the what's happened so far just establish that things are the same up to this point. You probably wont need more than just a few paragraphs for it, either.

[Rocketman]

Thanks for chipping in, guys, although after some re-organization I found out I won't really need to do either in my fic.

Actually, the question I want to pose now is on perhaps the biggest part of Dragonball: the fighting. What do y'all think is the best way to get across DBZ's fight scenes in plain text?

[Kaboom]

Actually, the question I want to pose now is on perhaps the biggest part of Dragonball: the fighting. What do y'all think is the best way to get across DBZ's fight scenes in plain text?

I have a very vivid imagination when it comes to combat, so I usually get by with just visualizing the combatants' specific movements and reactions in my head, and typing it out as I go. Usually it comes pretty easily to me, and if I'm lucky I can end up with something fairly legible.

[Thanos6]

I've found it helps to listen to music, picture the fight in your head, and write it to the beat. Long drawn-out notes or screams are energy blasts or slow-motion, match-deciding blows.

[Kaboom]

I've found it helps to listen to music, picture the fight in your head, and write it to the beat. Long drawn-out notes or screams are energy blasts or slow-motion, match-deciding blows.

In other words, make a "mental AMV" out of it, right? I do that pretty often.

[Thanos6]

I've found it helps to listen to music, picture the fight in your head, and write it to the beat. Long drawn-out notes or screams are energy blasts or slow-motion, match-deciding blows.

In other words, make a "mental AMV" out of it, right? I do that pretty often.

Basically. Mock me all you want, but I've found disco works best.

A couple of song recommendations--

"Vertigo/Relight My Fire" by Dan Hartman. Over 7 minutes long and really works for an epic feel, like Goku vs. Freeza, or something where a bunch of heroes are attacking a villain together.

"Forbidden Love" by Madleen Kane. Not quite so epic, about 5 minutes long. Works well for a tournament finale. You don't HAVE to use the words, of course, but I found it worked perfectly for the Goten/Trunks fight I ended the 28th Budokai with in my fic. (Before you ask, yes, that kind of fic)

[Scarz]

This thread was good idea Rocketman, it doesn't matter to me if you were the first to start one or not. By all means I'm a novice when it comes to writing. I've just started writing children comic books, guided by the watchful eye of my mentor. I'm also a fan fiction writer (well sometimes) and even though I love to write, I'm a horribly speller and sometimes I make stupid grammar mistakes. (Just to warn you before hand)

When it comes to writing fight scenes, I've been told I do it well when writing fiction. I think a lot you guys already gave some great advice. Here are some of my suggestions.

Vivid Imagination - I'm a day dreamer. I space out like 85% a day, especially during a conversation with a loved one. I usually think about my stories (original or fan work), a conversation two characters might have, an action sequence, their breast etc. When it comes to a fight scene, picture everything happening in ssssllllllloooooooowwwww motion. Don't cut any corners. Allow me to explain, A fight between Goku and Vegeta for example (drools) If Vegeta throws the first punch ask yourself "Where does he hit him or tries to hit?" The face? The stomach? Let's say you choose the face (Good choice) Where on the face? Between the eyes? The Nose? The jaw? Okay, the Jaw then. Dose Goku block? Maybe he doesn't, why? Is Vegeta too fast? Or maybe he didn't see it coming?

He didn't see it coming, sucker punch (sounds more like him). Alight, now Goku is hit. Is the impact of the punch strong enough to send him flying through a mountain of rocks? Maybe it was only strong send him back a few inches? A few feet? Miles!? How dose Goku react/counters? etc. etc. etc. Once you get all the details laid out in head, its a wise idea to keep notes. I have a notebook where I write every single idea I have so I won't forget it later. Also don't that classic saying "Show, don't tell." If you're writing fiction don't get too caught up in the iddy biddy details. Describe Vegeta's rage and determination to win by all means necessary, write about the PAIN felt by each bone shattering punch! Please don't forget pain. (a lot of writer tend to forget about that.)

Listening to Music - Music helps a lot in my opinion. Of course certain genre of music will help more than others. So if you LOVE R&B and R&B only, you might want to keep an open mind and branch out to other types of music. I'm not talking about Likin Park (oh god no) listen to something you haven't heard before. For instant I love exchanging music files with friends or family, I might find a song or soundtrack that sparks certain imaginative flow in my mind.

Speaking of music DO NOT LISTEN TO MUSIC WHILE YOU'RE WRITING. This is just my opinion and you don't have to take my advice to heart but I concentrate better when I "unplug." I wasn't blessed with the ability to multitask (like most people) In order to do something well, like writing or drawing I don't listen to music or anything else for that matter. Every thing, besides the computer I'm typing on, must be off. Listen to music before and after you write.

Action Movies or Martial Art Films - Yes, movies are my biggest inspiration when it comes to writing fight scenes. And I love, love, love, action flicks. I find old school kung-fu videos are the best and I'm very happy I grew up watching them. Most people after a certain age have hard time sitting through one. If you're not a fan, please try it, I guarantee you'll find at least once scene cool or helpful. With DBZ it could be tricky, not every film have muscled up guys with long yellow hair shooting blue plasma blast out of there hands. My only advice, if you see a scene that you want to adapt to the DBZ world of fighting, just imagine the actor(s) flying and their moves causing a lot more damage. What I'm trying to say here is, crank the fight scenes up to 11.

Personally experiences - Okay I know what you're thinking "Personally experiences? oh yeah because just yesterday I was fighting Demon King Piccolo to save the world and day before that I managed to collect all 7 dragonballs." I know no one on this planet had a real life DBZ experience. But you have gotten into a fight before, have you? Probably nothing nearly as cool or intense as in the movies but you do remember how it felt like? The warm blood running down your nose, face or another part of your body? Your hear beating so loud in your ears that you actually think you might go deaf? Did your vision sometimes blur? Did everything feel hot and muggy? Did your skin feel like it was on fire?

How did winning feel? Good? A sick feeling of accomplishment? Was it bitter sweet? Did you feel embarrassed afterwards? Did you feel bad for hurting someone else? Maybe you didn't win at all? You've lost? How did that make you feel? All these questions you can apply to your story. You don't have to get personal and write about you real life fights. Just the rock bottom emotions.

I used to get into a lot fights as kid through my teenage years (I think the last time I fought someone I was 18 ). I've lost every single one of them. I felt weak, I felt like a loser and you know what, I kind of enjoyed it too. I like writing about my characters losing rather than winning. It's a feeling that's very passionate to write about. And just recently I've joined an adult kick boxing class. Because I miss fighting. I miss the rush and the pain and because of this current real world experience I'm going through, I might add this current obsession of mine to one of my characters. Someone who loves to fight for the sake of fighting, even if he/she has never won a single match.

I hope this helps. I gotta question too. But I ask later when I think about it a little more.

[Kaboom]

Oh, and don't forget it's DragonBall. When writing action, remember the characters aren't just limited to punches and kicks. Even in a relatively small-scale fight, make sure to include flips and teleporting and high jumps and kiais and "phasing in and out" and afterimages and telekinesis and so on.

[Rocketman]

Also don't that classic saying "Show, don't tell." If you're writing fiction don't get too caught up in the iddy biddy details.

That is what trips me up when writing fight scenes. I keep getting worried it's too much detail and it's breaking the flow of the scene, especially since DBZ fighting is so well-known by anybody who's gonna be reading the fic.

[JulieYBM]

My fight scenes I have written down so far have been very short, more so than I wanted, but alas...

I've tried sticking to using special techniques (i.e. KameHame-Ha and Gyarikku Hô) as finshing touches to fights with mainly sticking to describing hand to hand combat as best as I could.

[Saiyan-Professor]

A question that I have is if you are working with an artist to illustrate your work how do you scale down the fights scenes so you want have 50 pages for example for one fight. When you write, one out it appears to be short but when you transfer this to the drawn page and it is very detailed (i.e. hand and feet positioning etc.) it can come out rather lengthy. This is important if you have a budget and the artist is being paid per page. You want your story to progress at a good pace without having it 70% fight scenes and 30% story.

[Xyex]

Ok, tried to post this this morning but the boards went down while I was doing so, so here it is now:

I'm a horribly speller and sometimes I make stupid grammar mistakes.

*cough*

Sorry, couldn't resist pointing that out. >.>

Actually, the question I want to pose now is on perhaps the biggest part of Dragonball: the fighting. What do y'all think is the best way to get across DBZ's fight scenes in plain text?

Pretty much what everyone else said. Just picture it in your mind and be descriptive of what's going on. Example (excuse the length please):

As soon as the match was called to start he shot in at his nephew at full speed pulling back his fist along the way.

Goten's eyes widened and he shot back quickly. His uncle was a lot faster, though, and reached him only a few seconds later. He shut his eyes as he saw the fist coming and braced himself. The punch landed with a loud crack and a bright flash of gold. Goten slowly opened one eye and looked to see Raditz's fist against his forehead though he'd barely felt it.

Sighing he grinned and crossed his arms. "Hehe! Now you can't hurt me!"

"Oh, think so, do you?" Raditz asked, smirking. "Kaio ken times ten!" His normal blue aura vanished and was replaced by a new bright red one. He pulled back, spun, and slammed the heel of his foot into Goten's head with a loud crack sending the young Super Sai-jin sailing away. There was a flash of red as he shot off after him.

Goten flipped over in the air and his eyes widened again as he saw the Sai-jin charging at him. He quickly dodged to the right just avoiding a hard punch. "Hey, that's not fair!" he cried. "You can't be as strong as me in super! That's cheating!" Raditz just smirked and launched a kick for the kid's head.

Goten shot his arm up and blocked it with a grimace. His uncle wasn't as strong as him, he was stronger. Enough that the boy knew this would be a hard fought match. He was tempted to pull out the stops, go all out, but he discarded that idea. He'd need that to catch Vegeta off guard next round to beat him. That didn't mean he was completely out of options, or tricks, and he grinned.

There was a bright flash of gold as he shot up and back. As he flew he kept his eyes locked on Raditz and thrust his arms down toward him, hands open and fingers spread. Gold energy formed around his hands in a ring. "Doughnut Gun!" he cried firing off thick rings of golden energy.

Raditz dodged to the side as the first one passed him. He turned and watched it slam into the ground below him showering rocks and dirt. Looking back up again he saw five more coming and quickly swerved around them as he flew up toward his opponent. Goten grinned which made Raditz hesitate.

Suddenly the boy spread his arms and legs out forming an X shape as a gold ring traced around his entire body. "Super Doughnut Gun!" he cried happily. A thick ring of energy the size of Goten shot off toward the nearing Sai-jin. Raditz spotted the opening in the middle and realized he could fit through it so he charged up. He grinned. He'd go right through the ring and catch his little nephew by surprise.

He was half way through the attack when suddenly the hole closed and pinned his arms against his body. His ascent stopped as the attack threw him toward the ground at high speeds. He fought to get free but the attack, and him, reached the ground first with a loud crash. "Yahoo!" Goten cheered, thrusting an arm into the air.

A second later the dust broke open as his uncle came charging up at him again, red aura trailing behind him. "Yikes!" Goten cried, a blue energy blast surging passed him as he just barely dodged it. He swerved the other way just in time to dodge a second blast and then kicked a third back at Raditz.

The Sai-jin deflected it away and then looked up for his nephew again and saw him charging down. Raditz slipped to the side and up and jammed his elbow down into Goten's back just as the child was zipping passed him. The blow smashed him down into the ground with a crash. The Sai-jin surged down after him and slammed his foot into the ground missing Goten as the boy rolled out of the way.

Goten snapped his short leg out and slammed it into the back of Raditz's calf as the Sai-jin tried to pull his leg out of the ground. The elder warrior let out a shocked gasp of pain and fell forward, his leg breaking free of the ground as he landed. Goten pushed up into the air, flipped, and then dropped down quickly slamming his feet into the small of Raditz's back.

There was a flash of red a second later and the ground around Raditz exploded while the child on his back was flung into the sky by the Ki burst. Raditz rolled over onto his back and glared up at Goten before shooting up at him again. He let loose a flurry of punches and kicks that the small warrior dodged around as fast as he could.

The blows came close to landing, some of them too close for Goten's comfort, but he managed to avoid them. Still, he could tell this was getting him nowhere. His uncle was faster, stronger, and had a longer reach. He couldn't win if he couldn't get in close enough to hit him. Energy attacks only worked when they hit and with his speed the elder Sai-jin would be able to dodge most of them.

Best way to explain is with examples, they say~ (I've got better written fight scene's but didn't feel like looking for them as I do rather like this exchange just the same.)

Now, onto the new stuff.

That is what trips me up when writing fight scenes. I keep getting worried it's too much detail and it's breaking the flow of the scene, especially since DBZ fighting is so well-known by anybody who's gonna be reading the fic.

The way I do it is think of it as me giving an over the radio play-by-play account of the fight. Enough detail people know what's happening but not so much I fall behind the speed of the fight.

A question that I have is if you are working with an artist to illustrate your work how do you scale down the fights scenes so you want have 50 pages for example for one fight. When you write, one out it appears to be short but when you transfer this to the drawn page and it is very detailed (i.e. hand and feet positioning etc.) it can come out rather lengthy. This is important if you have a budget and the artist is being paid per page. You want your story to progress at a good pace without having it 70% fight scenes and 30% story.

I've never actually had to deal with that myself, but maybe try writing the fight out in panel blocks when you're doing it? Something like:

Panel 1: [short description of the action here and any dialogue]
Panel 2: [ditto]

and so on? So instead of writing out a full fight like you would for a fanfiction condense it down to short blurbs and maybe just the most important parts?

[Scarz]

I'm a horribly speller and sometimes I make stupid grammar mistakes.

*cough*

Sorry, couldn't resist pointing that out. >.>

...Damnit, not again.

That is what trips me up when writing fight scenes. I keep getting worried it's too much detail and it's breaking the flow of the scene, especially since DBZ fighting is so well-known by anybody who's gonna be reading the fic.

I find the best way to do this is to keep writing until your finished with the scene or chapter. Don't worry about what others will think or if the fight scenes are good enough. When you're done, go back and reread the story and then make the necessary edits. You can remove parts that are too long or add more details to things that are too short.

A question that I have is if you are working with an artist to illustrate your work how do you scale down the fights scenes so you want have 50 pages for example for one fight. When you write, one out it appears to be short but when you transfer this to the drawn page and it is very detailed (i.e. hand and feet positioning etc.) it can come out rather lengthy. This is important if you have a budget and the artist is being paid per page. You want your story to progress at a good pace without having it 70% fight scenes and 30% story.

I've never actually had to deal with that myself, but maybe try writing the fight out in panel blocks when you're doing it? Something like:

Panel 1: [short description of the action here and any dialogue]
Panel 2: [ditto]

and so on? So instead of writing out a full fight like you would for a fanfiction condense it down to short blurbs and maybe just the most important parts?

Xyex, you have it almost spot on. When I get a script it looks very similar to what you described. But most writers I know don't dive into the script first (unless they've been around in the business for quite sometime) It helps to know how many pages your comic/manga is going to have. Let's say, between 22-25 pages for one issue. After you write a short description of your comic/manga (should be about a page and a half), plan out each page like a series of notes.

Page one: Batman stands tall on top of a typical Gotham city sky scrapper (Full page, no panels).

Page two: Suddenly he's attacked by Manbat from above. He scrapes his claws on across Batman's chest, ripping his suit. blah blah blah...

Page three: [You get the idea.]

Then once you have every page planned out, start writing the actual script (dialog, panels, etc.)

[Saiyan-Professor]

I see, that is what I figured, so do you recommend a detailed description of a scene when the writer wants it done in a specific manner or would it be better to provide a reference like a scene or screenshot from the show or a DB Movie?

[The Tori-bot]

Ok, tried to post this this morning but the boards went down while I was doing so, so here it is now:

I'm a horribly speller and sometimes I make stupid grammar mistakes.

*cough*

Sorry, couldn't resist pointing that out. >.>

fight scene's

Also...

*cough*

You seem to do that an awful lot; can I get you a Locket?

[Xyex]

Ok, tried to post this this morning but the boards went down while I was doing so, so here it is now:

I'm a horribly speller and sometimes I make stupid grammar mistakes.

*cough*

Sorry, couldn't resist pointing that out. >.>

fight scene's

*Stabs and hides the body under the rug*

I see, that is what I figured, so do you recommend a detailed description of a scene when the writer wants it done in a specific manner or would it be better to provide a reference like a scene or screenshot from the show or a DB Movie?

I'd say it depends on how good you are at describing it and how well they are at deciphering what you want. Course, it can't hurt to do both~

[Scarz]

I see, that is what I figured, so do you recommend a detailed description of a scene when the writer wants it done in a specific manner or would it be better to provide a reference like a scene or screenshot from the show or a DB Movie?

Personally I work well with writers who are very detailed about what they want in their story. When they provide a reference or a clip from a movie it's even more helpful! Some artist however prefer a writer who is sometimes a little vague when it comes to fight scenes, I guess it gives the penciler creative freedom. Ask the artist which one he or she is more comfortable with. If you want your comic to be spot on, I suggest finding an artist that works well with you and doesn't mind following script panel by panel.