Instances in Movie 5 removing its "canonity?"

[B]

I know Toei's fuckup regarding Gohan's design, but is there anything else? As far as I remember, Gohan's bowl cut and tail were the ONLY things keeping Movie 5 from fitting into the canon in a neat little bow.

I guess if you want to count Haiya Dragon/Icarus you can, as he only appears in the movies and filler segments of the anime.

[Sprite Satan]

I know Toei's fuckup regarding Gohan's design, but is there anything else? As far as I remember, Gohan's bowl cut and tail were the ONLY things keeping Movie 5 from fitting into the canon in a neat little bow.

I guess if you want to count Haiya Dragon/Icarus you can, as he only appears in the movies and filler segments of the anime.

*Goku being back on Earth before Freeza and King Cold arrived.
*Goku needing to be suitably enraged to transform into a Super Saiyan.

[B]

Buh? This is after Freeza and King Cold arrive. Isn't this suppose to take place during the three year training for the Artificial Humans?

[Sprite Satan]

Buh? This is after Freeza and King Cold arrive. Isn't this suppose to take palce during the three year training for the Artificial Humans?

That's the problem.

You either reconcile this by saying Freeza and Cold were killed and it's during training for the Artificial Humans. Then why can't Goku transform at will as we know he can by that point?

If we say that it takes place before that (and it might, Coola doesn't mention anything about Cold, it's all Freeza) then what the heck is Goku doing on earth?

[B]

I was under the assumption he just... didn't transform because he didn't think it was necessary. Not that he couldn't. He was pretty much even with Coola until he transformed.

[Sprite Satan]

I was under the assumption he just... didn't transform because he didn't think it was necessary. Not that he couldn't. He was pretty much even with Coola until he transformed.

Which throws up even more questions about Coola's strength and Goku's strength. However, Goku's transformation is consistent with that of a "first-timer" (flashing in and out, etc) whereas by that point he should be able to transform instantaneously.

EDIT: Also, Coola is all about avenging Freeza's Namek defeat. If it's post his and Cold's deaths, he'd have slightly different concerns on his mind.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Buh? This is after Freeza and King Cold arrive. Isn't this suppose to take place during the three year training for the Artificial Humans?

To be exact it says:

Age 764~767: Coola invades Earth and battles Goku.

If you would notice that, it does not go into the details, so one can argue that something similar to Movie #5 occurred but not every detail actually took place. Therefore, in the main continuity, Kakarrot did not have a hard time going Super Saiyan and Son Gohan did not have a tail etc.

[jjgp1112]

Actually, Gohan having his tail and his hairstyle don't ruin anything. You can just say he got a haircut during the three years training and it grew back eventually. And Goku and Gohan have been shown to randomly grow back their tails, so he probably grew it back, and after Doore made it obvious to Gohan that his tail has a weakness, he had it permanently removed like how Goku did.

Also, Goku not going SSJ off the bat can be chalked up to simply adding dramatic effect. And besides, at the beginning, Goku was owning Cooler in his base form. After Cooler transformed, he beat up Goku nonstop, and sure, he used Kaioken, but he was probably just trying to see what was necessary at that point. Then, that didn't work, and he got his ass beat again, and then he went SSJ.

[Sprite Satan]

If we dip in and out of meta-reasoning (it was dramatic effect) whenever we struggle to apply logic, then we may not bother to try and logically analyse these situations. It's all done for some sort of effect, after all. We could just say that and dust off our hands and be done with it, but it's not very interesting.

[B]

EDIT: Also, Coola is all about avenging Freeza's Namek defeat. If it's post his and Cold's deaths, he'd have slightly different concerns on his mind.

Well, the time between Goku taking care of Freeza on Namek and Trunks visiting the past isn't that far apart, right? Like a year and a half? And I'd expect word to travel pretty slow, since we're talking across the universe. Hell, if you wanted to, you could throw in the new special as evidence, where Freeza's stench is still stinking up various places, even at least 10 years after his death.

So yeah, Coola is unaware his father was killed and is avenging Freeza only, but that doesn't mean this is happening immediately after they've all gotten back to Earth and are waiting for Goku.

... Actually, it's impossible for Coola to be aware of Cold's death because him, Freeza, and all their henchmen were killed by Trunks on Earth, so there was no one to report this news. At least, Coola would't be aware unil he needed to contact his father in some way.

[Kingdom Heartless]

It makes you question why Toei wouldn't just do an extra few minutes of scriptwork to make more of the movies work.

[Kaboom]

It makes you question why Toei wouldn't just do an extra few minutes of scriptwork to make more of the movies work.

Well, DragonBall has some pretty long, arching storylines; it's not like they can just plop a movie down right in the middle of it, even IF there was adequate time at some point. From a story perspective, you'd be like, "what the hell are they doing going around enjoying themselves when they should be training for the Androids/Cell/Buu?"

[B]

Nevermind the fact Movie 6 makes no sense at all, in terms of when it's supposed to take place.

And though I haven't seen movies 7-11, What is Future Trunks doing there?

[Kingdom Heartless]

It makes you question why Toei wouldn't just do an extra few minutes of scriptwork to make more of the movies work.

Well, DragonBall has some pretty long, arching storylines; it's not like they can just plop a movie down right in the middle of it, even IF there was adequate time at some point. From a story perspective, you'd be like, "what the hell are they doing going around enjoying themselves when they should be training for the Androids/Cell/Buu?"

Yeah, I get that, but maybe if they just had Gohan say something like "I'm glad I'm getting stronger, but it's nice to get a break from training to fight the Androids."

Or in Movie 8, take an extra few minutes to help it fit into the 10 days before the Cell games. Like when they are trying to get Gohan into that school, have Chi Chi say something like "It will be great if Gohan can get into a good school after you defeat that monster Cell." And have Cell show up and help against Brolli, yelling "hey, bitch! These are my prey!"

But I guess you're right about the main villains distracting from that. Like if they made it clear that Movie 8 took place then, even when they defeat Brolli, you'd still be thinking "What are they smiling about? They're still boned. They've still got that Cell asshole waiting back home to kick their asses." And it would also make you wonder why they didn't just give Gohan their energy as they did with Goku.

And thinking about it, I prefer not having to look at the movies as canon.

Wow, I've completely turned around over the course of this one post.

[Saiyan-Professor]

It makes you question why Toei wouldn't just do an extra few minutes of scriptwork to make more of the movies work.

Well, DragonBall has some pretty long, arching storylines; it's not like they can just plop a movie down right in the middle of it, even IF there was adequate time at some point. From a story perspective, you'd be like, "what the hell are they doing going around enjoying themselves when they should be training for the Androids/Cell/Buu?"

To reconcile the camping aspect all one has to say that they took a small break in order to rest their bodies and invited Kuririn along for company. Kakarrot did the exact same thing later right before the Cell Games post Room of Space and Time. Everyone else was still training at Kame’s Palace while the Son family and Kuririn was jacking around.

...Or in Movie 8, take an extra few minutes to help it fit into the 10 days before the Cell games. Like when they are trying to get Gohan into that school, have Chi Chi say something like "It will be great if Gohan can get into a good school after you defeat that monster Cell."...

That certainly does not sound like Ch-Chi; she would be busy bitching about how her Gohan needs to be in school instead of running around with Kakarrot’s hoodlum friends getting into fights.

[Adamant]

It makes you question why Toei wouldn't just do an extra few minutes of scriptwork to make more of the movies work.

Usually because they aren't aware that the movies can't work until it's too late. The fact that Goku hadn't killed Freeza on Nameck wasn't revealed in the manga until after the movie was already done, and the fact that it's possible to instantly go SSJ without being fuelled by rage was revealed pretty much at the exact time the movie premiered.

So yeah, the movie is based on the assumption that Goku is going to kill Freeza on Nameck, go back to Earth, and never learn how to control his transformation. It's not meant to work with the way the story actually turned out. Don't think too much about it.

[caejones]

...
Has... anyone considered movie5 might fit in one of the "Android apocalypse" futures where ... oh, wait, never mind. .

So, basically, it's all Goku's fault?
*kicks Goku and his foolish squandry of SSJ* dumbass.

[jjgp1112]

Nevermind the fact Movie 6 makes no sense at all, in terms of when it's supposed to take place.

And though I haven't seen movies 7-11, What is Future Trunks doing there?

Yeah, Movie 6 is the movie that would be impossible to fit no matter how hard you tried. Dende being Kami already just throws a monkey wrench in the whole thing. Otherwise, you could say it took place in one of the alternate timelines where the Androids are defeated, like how you can do with Movie 7.

And then Movies 2, 3, 4, 11, and 12 are impossible thanks to the circumstances of the story.

Movie 8 logically could fit in the story, but I just find it hard to believe that something like that happened during the wait for the Cell Games.

...Or in Movie 8, take an extra few minutes to help it fit into the 10 days before the Cell games. Like when they are trying to get Gohan into that school, have Chi Chi say something like "It will be great if Gohan can get into a good school after you defeat that monster Cell."...

That certainly does not sound like Ch-Chi; she would be busy bitching about how her Gohan needs to be in school instead of running around with Kakarrot’s hoodlum friends getting into fights.

But Chi-Chi herself let Goku train Gohan, here's what she said in the manga:

Goku: Chi-Chi...Can I take Gohan with me?

Chi-Chi: Not on your life...at least, would be my first reaction. But I know it's pointless to try to stop you. I'll have to give in. Make him as strong as you can while you're at it! But once this fight is over, I won't let you interfere in his studies again. And I want you to get a job!

[Saiyan-Professor]

The movie itself is not supposed to fit but similar events happened in the timeline.

[Terra-jin]

@jjgp1112: You can fit movies 11 and 12 in one of the alternate timelines, as well, because at least one of these unfolds relatively similar to the main timeline. Here's how:

The Trunks that was killed by Cell traveled to and returned from a different "past" than that which we see. This new past has been warned about the cyborgs, Goku got his medicine and there's no Cell (at least no mature version ).
So, this timeline could very well contain movies 11 and 12.