Epsisode Condensing Speculation Thread

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:11 pm

Assuming the rumor of recutting and editing down to one hundred episodes for DBK is true, I figured it'd be fun to predict how the series might be condensed. For this purpose, I've chosen to begin with the most infamous of fights: the Son v. Freeza fight. I might go back and do the rest of the series, at least from before hand.

Part 1: Episode begins with Son arriving on battlefield (a lead in from the previous episode); Vegeta dies and the 'warm up' lasts until the end of the episode (where Son recovers from being stuck in that energy ball).

Part 2: The 'real fight' begins; by the commercial break Lord Kaiô reveals Son is already using the Ten-Times Kaiô-ken; return from break covers all of the way up to the Twenty-Times Kaiô-ken (hopefully retaining Son's underwater vision of despair).

Part 3: Episode begins with the Twenty-Times being revealed as pretty much ineffective. Son begins gathering genki for the Genki Dama. Piccolo begins fighting Freeza and the episode ends with the Genki Dama being launched.

Part 4: Freeza is assumed dead and the gang celebrates. The commercial cuts in right after Piccolo is taken out. Return from commercial covers up to Freeza launching his Death Ball.

Part 5: Kaiô pieces together that Namek is still safe, Dende makes his wishes, and Freeza powers up to 100%.

Part 6: Freeza realizes he cannot win, even at 100%; episode ends with being cut by his own ki discs.

Part 7: Halfway point ends with Son killing Freeza; episode ends with Son's 'death'.

So, seven episodes, a number even I am surprised by, but with the footage Toei has I think it's possible.

Anybody else have ideas for how not just this fight, but the series might be recut?

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:07 am

I wouldn't be surprised if the entire battle with Nappa and Vegeta was condensed to 2 or 3 episodes.

B · Post by B » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:19 am

Cell's absorption subplot could probably be cut down to maybe 5 episodes.

Less second form. BD

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:22 am

jjgp1112 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the entire battle with Nappa and Vegeta was condensed to 2 or 3 episodes.

With the amount of major character deaths you think that makes sense? o_O Give it at least two more episodes so we can breathe man.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:27 am

And what about the Namek saga? That'd be kinda awkward with all of that condensed.

B · Post by B » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:31 am

You can't condense everything. I'd say the whole Nappa segemnt of the Saiyan arc should be left alone. if they're sped up, the four deaths could seem forced and just tacky.

"WTF? Three-eyed guy died? But Scarface died like, six minutes ago!"

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:36 am

You could take out things like Nappa's Big Day With the Navy, though. The fight itself reall does need the space, so you have time to actually feel the impact of each death before the next one happens.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:37 am

Velasa wrote:You could take out things like Nappa's Big Day With the Navy, though. The fight itself reall does need the space, so you have time to actually feel the impact of each death before the next one happens.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I hope they don't.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:38 am

That's the big problem with the DBK concept. All the fun stuff will get cut first.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:41 am

I'm fine with it being taken out. Cut down on the filler. Animate the manga for me without making me have to wait around. The concept of dragging everything out was to keep the anime behind the manga and it really dragged things out. Without that restriction, they can make it go manga-speed and really make me happy!

Yi Xing Long · Post by **Yi Xing Long** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:48 am

Wow... that seems rather ridiculous if you seriously think you can cut out every instance of character development and tension building. Have you ever seen those "no filler" fights on youtube? They are absolutely abhorrent. The pacing is destroyed because they remove the so-called "standing around" so the fight jumps all over the place and is over before you can blink. Things that you think may be "filler" are there for a reason.

If this is what you want to see you may as well just watch that crap on youtube and speed-read through the manga at a pace of 5.5 volumes per hour. Seriously, that is the exact pace you would need to read at, FIVE AND A HALF VOLUMES per HOUR in order to keep with the pace you just described. You also have to take into account that not all filler is "bad." In fact, a lot of filler helps with character development.

The average number of chapters covered in a single anime episode is 2 or 3. What you describe (assuming there is nothing cut out) would need 20-21 chapters per episode!

B · Post by B » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:53 am

Are you saying character development isn't in the manga because it goes by faster?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:56 am

Yi Xing Long wrote:In fact, a lot of filler helps with character development.

Freeza: Your eyes are so pretty, Goku.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:08 am

Yi Xing Long wrote:Wow... that seems rather ridiculous if you seriously think you can cut out every instance of character development and tension building. Have you ever seen those "no filler" fights on youtube? They are absolutely abhorrent. The pacing it destroyed because they remove the so-called "standing around" so the fight jumps all over the place and is over before you can blink. Things that you think may be "filler" are there for a reason.

If this is what you want to see you may as well just watch that crap on youtube and speed-read through the manga at a pace of 5.5 volumes per hour. Seriously, that is the exact pace you would need to read at, FIVE AND A HALF VOLUMES per HOUR in order to keep with the pace you just described. You also have to take into account that not all filler is "bad." In fact, a lot of filler helps with character development.

The average number of chapters covered in a single anime episode is 2 or 3. What you describe (assuming there is nothing cut out) would need 20-21 chapters per episode!

Here's what I'm getting from that:

1) You think that Toei as a whole is only as skilled as a single kid with Windows Movie Maker and a YouTube account who does videos in his spare time.

2) You don't read the manga. Otherwise you'd know that tension and character development do exist within it.

"According to the manga" videos can be a bit too literal sometimes. Just because it takes me three seconds to scan over a page of Vegeta powering up doesn't mean that he should only take three seconds to power up. However, he doesn't need to do it for several minutes, either. Especially considering the fact that toward the end he said something along the lines of, "You need a whole minute to power up?! That's practically forever in a fight!"

The things I'm talking about cutting out are the random filler like USSj Trunks actually getting the upper hand against Perfect Cell before eventually losing, then turning around and using the manga line of "I couldn't even touch him!" which retcons the last episode or two because, in the manga, Trunks never got the upper hand. He was too slow and couldn't lay a hand on Cell.

Khalid Shahin · Post by **Khalid Shahin** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:11 am

Yi Xing Long wrote:Wow... that seems rather ridiculous if you seriously think you can cut out every instance of character development and tension building. Have you ever seen those "no filler" fights on youtube? They are absolutely abhorrent. The pacing it destroyed because they remove the so-called "standing around" so the fight jumps all over the place and is over before you can blink. Things that you think may be "filler" are there for a reason.

If this is what you want to see you may as well just watch that crap on youtube and speed-read through the manga at a pace of 5.5 volumes per hour. Seriously, that is the exact pace you would need to read at, FIVE AND A HALF VOLUMES per HOUR in order to keep with the pace you just described. You also have to take into account that not all filler is "bad." In fact, a lot of filler helps with character development.

The average number of chapters covered in a single anime episode is 2 or 3. What you describe (assuming there is nothing cut out) would need 20-21 chapters per episode!

Without any filler an episode would equate to 10 chapters. And with the Toei's Dragon Ball Kai, I would estimate 3 to 4 chapters an episode.

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:14 am

Oh, I didn't know that about Trunks and Cell...

Damn, I really need to get that mana set.

Yi Xing Long · Post by **Yi Xing Long** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:00 am

Kendamu wrote:Here's what I'm getting from that:

1) You think that Toei as a whole is only as skilled as a single kid with Windows Movie Maker and a YouTube account who does videos in his spare time.

2) You don't read the manga. Otherwise you'd know that tension and character development do exist within it.

"According to the manga" videos can be a bit too literal sometimes. Just because it takes me three seconds to scan over a page of Vegeta powering up doesn't mean that he should only take three seconds to power up. However, he doesn't need to do it for several minutes, either. Especially considering the fact that toward the end he said something along the lines of, "You need a whole minute to power up?! That's practically forever in a fight!"

The things I'm talking about cutting out are the random filler like USSj Trunks actually getting the upper hand against Perfect Cell before eventually losing, then turning around and using the manga line of "I couldn't even touch him!" which retcons the last episode or two because, in the manga, Trunks never got the upper hand. He was too slow and couldn't lay a hand on Cell.

You guys have COMPLETELY missed the point of my post. I never said anything about Toei. I was responding to the thread starters claim that everything up until the end of the Freeza arc can be condensed into 7 episodes.

I have read every single chapter of the manga. Of course the manga contains character development, that is not what I was getting at. I stated that some filler helps with character development, I never stated that the filler is the character development. You need to take into account the difference between the two mediums. Manga is not the same thing as anime, and thus you cannot just transfer everything over exactly as-is. There is nothing to indicate how long a scene takes place. Nothing goes by "faster" or "slower" in the manga because it is up to the reader to decide how quickly a scene will happen.

B wrote:Are you saying character development isn't in the manga because it goes by faster?

If you actually bothered to read my comments then you would know I said nothing of the sort. It is quite the contrary actually; the manga has massive amounts of character development.

Khalid Shahin wrote:Without any filler an episode would equate to 10 chapters. And with the Toei's Dragon Ball Kai, I would estimate 3 to 4 chapters an episode.

Maybe with your warped and twisted sense of pacing it possibly would, but I know for sure that I would never want to watch some hack job like that. Pacing is very important and can make or break a scene, or even an entire film. As for Dragon Ball "Kai," there has been no confirmation on whether it will be abridged or not; that is merely a rumor.

Edit: As I hastily read through JulieYBM's post, I misread it as though it were from the beginning of the series instead of starting with Goku's arrival. Still, my point is that you cannot condense the series so much as to destroy the pacing. Now with that all out of the way, I think that 7 episodes may still be a bit too few.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:14 am

Yi Xing Long wrote:You guys have COMPLETELY missed the point of my post. I never said anything about Toei. I was responding to the thread starters claim that everything up until the end of the Freeza arc can be condensed into 7 episodes.

I know you're exaggerating, but I get the general idea. That's dumb. I don't think it takes around 100 episodes to tell everything through the end of the Freeza arc, though.

I have read every single chapter of the manga. Of course the manga contains character development, that is not what I was getting at. I stated that some filler helps with character development, I never stated that the filler is the character development. You need to take into account the difference between the two mediums. Manga is not the same thing as anime, and thus you cannot just transfer everything over exactly as-is. There is nothing to indicate how long a scene takes place. Nothing goes by "faster" or "slower" in the manga because it is up to the reader to decide how quickly a scene will happen.

You can just transfer what happened in the manga to the anime. If you take out what was put there specifically to keep the anime from catching up with the manga (a few seconds here, a few seconds there, the occasional entire episode) then you have what happened in the manga, in anime form. It's not as if the animators don't know how to reasonably translate something time-wise.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:47 am

Well.

Your average, well-paced anime adaption manages to fit about 40 pages (2 chapters) per episode if they don't insert any filler scenes.
Dragonball's chapters are about 14 pages each, so that's 42 pages to 3 chapters.
The story from Raditz' arrival to Goku and Uub's departure lasts 325 chapters, so with 3 chapters on average per episode, and more than that for those battle-heavy chapters with 2 panels of characters trading hits per page for half the chapter, "around 100 episodes" seems very realistic for a well-paced anime adaption with no filler.

Yi Xing Long · Post by **Yi Xing Long** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:04 am

Adamant wrote:Well.

Your average, well-paced anime adaption manages to fit about 40 pages (2 chapters) per episode if they don't insert any filler scenes.
Dragonball's chapters are about 14 pages each, so that's 42 pages to 3 chapters.
The story from Raditz' arrival to Goku and Uub's departure lasts 325 chapters, so with 3 chapters on average per episode, and more than that for those battle-heavy chapters with 2 panels of characters trading hits per page for half the chapter, "around 100 episodes" seems very realistic for a well-paced anime adaption with no filler.

The thing with a "no filler" adaption, though, is that you may as well be reading the manga (better artwork). Everyone has at least some filler that they enjoy (ie. the most prominent scene that comes to mind is when everyone decides to help out Gohan when he is in the midst of a beam struggle with Cell). Other examples of great filler from earlier in the series include: Gohan/Piccolo's training in the wilderness, Gohan's "misadventures," Kuririn and gang training with Popo, Goku falls down to Hell, etc.

Kanzenshuu

Epsisode Condensing Speculation Thread

Epsisode Condensing Speculation Thread

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