Could this be the reason they don't continue DB Super series yet?

[SupremeKai25]

You seem to have a few misconceptions about the first few years of Super... the manga was not adapting the anime ANY more than the other way around. NEITHER was an adaptation of the other. When it came to the U6 Tournament, Gokū Black, and Tournament of Power arcs, here's what ACTUALLY happened: Toriyama wrote up a basic, barebones plot outline, gave a copy each separately to Toyotarō for the manga and Tōei's production staff for the anime, and basically went "Have at it, boys! I'm old and long-since retired and haven't actually cared about Dragon Ball in twenty years! Do the lion's share of my old workload for me!! Imma go nap" Hence why, while the major plot beats are mostly the same for each, the events between each bullet point on Toriyama's napkin notes (which make up the VAST majority of the actual story) are DRASTICALLY different between the two. Because, again... NEITHER was an adaptation of the other. They're the results of two copies of the same plot skeleton being simultaneously but totally separately given two COMPLETELY different sets of nervous systems, muscles, skin, and hair by two very different, separate writers/sets of writers.

This.

The U6/Future Trunks/ToP arcs were all storylines that Toriyama wanted to tell, so the Anime adapted them.

Toriyama might have provided Toyotaro with an outline for the Granolah arc, but ultimately it's far more likely that the Granolah arc was Toyotaro's original idea, not Toriyama. Otherwise, there would be no reason for the Toei not to adapt that arc, as Toei adapts every storyline Toriyama wants to tell.

Why Toei wouldn't adapt Granolah arc if it was Toriyama's idea? Toei always adapts Toriyama's ideas. The upcoming Daima show once again proves it.

The misconception is thinking that the Anime was an adaptation of the Toyotaro Manga, it was NOT. It was an adaptation of Toriyama's outlines for the story arcs he wanted to tell.

It doesn't seem like Toriyama wanted to tell the Granolah arc as much as he wanted to tell U6/Future Trunks/TOP, if it was even his idea at all (but I suspect it's far more likely it was Toyotaro's idea and Toriyama simply provided him with a script and a few character designs).

[peterx]

I am a fan of Dragon Ball and I can say that I enjoy GT. I even have the DVD in my house, I watched the episode so many times.
As for DBS some episode was just terrible. Some characters are just written really bad and how they are treated the same really bad.

Yes, GT does have fans (me included), but its general reception is not positive.
TFS hates it, FUNimation calls it "the bastard child of the franchise", 9 out of 10 Dragon Ball content creators on YouTube trash it, Daima has been trashed on principle of reusing an idea from GT alone, called "GT 2.0" and received negative comparisons, the list goes on.

I'm not saying any of this to force people to like GT, but if Dragon Ball were to go the One Piece route, where it had arcs written by the original author in-between loads of filler content, DB fans would still trash it like there's no tomorrow. There is a large aversion to content not made by Toriyama in this fandom, whether he approves of it directly or not.

Haha I love GT too, but I think there are some flaws in it that I can understand why people hate it..
Sorry but the prime reason I think is Pan herself.. Too much high pitched whining and crying from her throughout the series and little contribution, always someone had to save her from troubles.
Other reasons are the rushing plot, yet the Baby saga had one of the best storyline if it would have been better handled.

Yet contrary to the above I like it because it gives me a continuation feeling, interesting story, SS4, and has the best ending for Dragon Ball.

[peterx]

You seem to have a few misconceptions about the first few years of Super... the manga was not adapting the anime ANY more than the other way around. NEITHER was an adaptation of the other. When it came to the U6 Tournament, Gokū Black, and Tournament of Power arcs, here's what ACTUALLY happened: Toriyama wrote up a basic, barebones plot outline, gave a copy each separately to Toyotarō for the manga and Tōei's production staff for the anime, and basically went "Have at it, boys! I'm old and long-since retired and haven't actually cared about Dragon Ball in twenty years! Do the lion's share of my old workload for me!! Imma go nap" Hence why, while the major plot beats are mostly the same for each, the events between each bullet point on Toriyama's napkin notes (which make up the VAST majority of the actual story) are DRASTICALLY different between the two. Because, again... NEITHER was an adaptation of the other. They're the results of two copies of the same plot skeleton being simultaneously but totally separately given two COMPLETELY different sets of nervous systems, muscles, skin, and hair by two very different, separate writers/sets of writers.

This.

The U6/Future Trunks/ToP arcs were all storylines that Toriyama wanted to tell, so the Anime adapted them.

Toriyama might have provided Toyotaro with an outline for the Granolah arc, but ultimately it's far more likely that the Granolah arc was Toyotaro's original idea, not Toriyama. Otherwise, there would be no reason for the Toei not to adapt that arc, as Toei adapts every storyline Toriyama wants to tell.

Why Toei wouldn't adapt Granolah arc if it was Toriyama's idea? Toei always adapts Toriyama's ideas. The upcoming Daima show once again proves it.

The misconception is thinking that the Anime was an adaptation of the Toyotaro Manga, it was NOT. It was an adaptation of Toriyama's outlines for the story arcs he wanted to tell.

It doesn't seem like Toriyama wanted to tell the Granolah arc as much as he wanted to tell U6/Future Trunks/TOP, if it was even his idea at all (but I suspect it's far more likely it was Toyotaro's idea and Toriyama simply provided him with a script and a few character designs).

If all of this is true then if TOEI hates Toyo this much why do Toriyama consider him his successor? It'd be the best time to "build up" Toyotaro by TOEI as a successor whose work and stories counts and deserves to be animated since one day he will take the helm and be the new Toriyama.

[Vegetto95]

Toriyama might have provided Toyotaro with an outline for the Granolah arc, but ultimately it's far more likely that the Granolah arc was Toyotaro's original idea, not Toriyama. Otherwise, there would be reason for the Toei not to adapt that arc, as Toei adapts every storyline Toriyama wants to tell.

Why Toei wouldn't adapt Granolah arc if it was Toriyama's idea? Toei always adapts Toriyama's ideas. The upcoming Daima show once again proves it.

It doesn't seem like Toriyama wanted to tell the Granolah arc as much as he wanted to tell U6/Future Trunks/TOP, if it was even his idea at all (but I suspect it's far more likely it was Toyotaro's idea and Toriyama simply provided him with a script and a few character designs).

From everything I've read both here and elsewhere, evidence points almost irrefutably to the Moro and Granolah arcs being almost entirely conceived by Toyotarō. Toriyama's involvement apparently didn't extend much past basically just approving the stories and making a few minor edits to Toyo's work here and there (in particular, I've read, and I believe it was mentioned on Kanzenshuu the Podcast episode, that he tweaked Toyo's designs for the Heeters a bit, kinda similarly to how he did so with Nakatsuru's original designs of Bardock and his crew back in 1990).

So yeah, that's probably by far the biggest reason for those being manga-exclusive arcs that very well likely may never see the light of animation: they're 99% Toyotarō stories with Toriyama being fairly hands-off for the most part, and Toyotarō's involvement on the series is ENTIRELY on the manga end, with zero bearing on anything to do with the anime.

I wouldn't be surprised if, as a result, Toriyama himself had Toyo do the Super Hero arc in the manga despite it having just come out in movie form, since Toriyama wrote most of the story for the movie himself. Either that or the execs at Shūeisha worked that out with Toriyama. That's the only explanation that makes sense considering Tōei has no power over what Shūeisha does with the manga.

[Basaku]

but ultimately it's far more likely that the Granolah arc was Toyotaro's original idea, not Toriyama

So like Future Trunks saga, Broly and 90% of BOG.

The misconception is thinking that the Anime was an adaptation of the Toyotaro Manga

It's not a misconception as nobody thinks that and the fact that Toei and Toyo were separately adapting the same napkin plot outlines is well known.

Toei also didn't adapt Saint Seiya Next Dimension yet. Why? Is it because they don't respect Kurumada? Or because Saint Seiya isn't one of the biggest anime in the world? Of course not, there's multiple reasons why it may have not happened yet just as there may be multiple reasons why Super 2 may or may not happen and whether it will or will not adapt the manga's general plotlines. An explanation that "these are not Toriyama storylines" makes no sense when Toei went ahead multiple times in the past creating anime material without Toriyama's story outlines. GT, Episode of Bardock, Heroes anime, BOG's script.

From everything I've read both here and elsewhere, evidence points almost irrefutably to the Moro and Granolah arcs being almost entirely conceived by Toyotarō.

Literally in this thread people are posting quotes and sources stating the opposite so I'm requesting that you post quotes and links stating what you've just claimed to have read somehwere.

[Vegetto95]

If all of this is true then if TOEI hates Toyo this much why do Toriyama consider him his successor? It'd be the best time to "build up" Toyotaro by TOEI as a successor whose work and stories counts and deserves to be animated since one day he will take the helm and be the new Toriyama.

No one ever said Tōei hates Toyotarō. Tōei simply has no relationship with him whatsoever, because Toyotarō works ONLY on Super's manga, which is owned and published by Shūeisha. Tōei ANIMATION works solely on the ANIMATED Dragon Ball works, which it owns and produces. That's literally how it's been since the series began in the mid-80s... nothing has ACTUALLY changed in the last 40 years aside from the fact that Toriyama doesn't write and draw the manga himself anymore, and the anime isn't a direct adaptation of the manga anymore, because the manga doesn't serve as the main source material anymore.

Keep in mind that Toriyama wrote the entirety of the original MANGA himself. Aside from a few ideas and designs here and there that he did for them, Tōei produced 99.9% of the the Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z anime themselves. Toriyama hence chose Toyotarō as his successor in writing THE MANGA. That decision has absolute ZERO impact on Tōei and their production of the Super/Daima anime series and films. EVERYTHING that Toyotarō does is property of Shūeisha, and anything that is shared between them and Tōei is only done so because it was first conceived by Toriyama, the creator of the series who works with both companies on both mediums.

[Vegetto95]

From everything I've read both here and elsewhere, evidence points almost irrefutably to the Moro and Granolah arcs being almost entirely conceived by Toyotarō.

Literally in this thread people are posting quotes and sources stating the opposite so I'm requesting that you post quotes and links stating what you've just claimed to have read somehwere.

You're right, my bad.

But regardless, clearly there's some kind of inter-company agreement putting SOME kind of roadblock in-between Tōei and the manga-exclusive arcs, which clearly doesn't exist the other way around as recently shown with Super Hero.

It would just be really fucking nice if Dragon Ball Super as a whole wasn't such a goddamn MESS in terms of its production and continuity so as to avoid all this goddamn confusion lol

[SupremeKai25]

So like Future Trunks saga, Broly and 90% of BOG.

Future Trunks, Broly, and 90% of BoG were Toyotaro's ideas? That's completely new to me, I have never heard of this before.

As far as BoG is concerned, it was an idea originating from Toei, but Toriyama revised the script in its entirety and Toei followed his lead.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... -toriyama/

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... e-of-gods/

What sort of work was it making the story with Toriyama-sensei?
First, I’d create a story suggestion with concepts such as Beerus, God of Destruction, in it, and have Toriyama-sensei look at it; Toriyama-sensei got into it, saying, “Well, how about this sort of story?”, and would make it even better like that. Since there were length considerations, I would sort of stretch that out and make it into a script.

Future Trunks arc also was originally created by Toriyama. Did Toyotaro add things to it? Sure, but the original idea came from Toriyama, who first presented the original script to Toyotaro:

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/927844658801025025

As for Broly movie, was it not Toriyama who wrote the story?

If all of this is true then if TOEI hates Toyo this much why do Toriyama consider him his successor? It'd be the best time to "build up" Toyotaro by TOEI as a successor whose work and stories counts and deserves to be animated since one day he will take the helm and be the new Toriyama.

I didn't say Toei "hates" Toyotaro. I said the Super Anime was supposed to adapt TORIYAMA storylines.

It has nothing to do with "hating" Toyotaro, but you want the Super Anime to be something that it never was. It was never an adaptation of Super Manga (written by Toyotaro), it was instead an adaptation of TORIYAMA BULLET POINTS (written by Toriyama).

Now this doesn't mean that the Super Anime/Toei cannot change their direction, but right now it doesn't seem likely. At least until Fall 2024, Toei will be following Toriyama's lead to make the Daima anime.

[peterx]

If all of this is true then if TOEI hates Toyo this much why do Toriyama consider him his successor? It'd be the best time to "build up" Toyotaro by TOEI as a successor whose work and stories counts and deserves to be animated since one day he will take the helm and be the new Toriyama.

I didn't say Toei "hates" Toyotaro. I said the Super Anime was supposed to adapt TORIYAMA storylines.

It has nothing to do with "hating" Toyotaro, but you want the Super Anime to be something that it never was. It was never an adaptation of Super Manga (written by Toyotaro), it was instead an adaptation of TORIYAMA BULLET POINTS (written by Toriyama).

Now this doesn't mean that the Super Anime/Toei cannot change their direction, but right now it doesn't seem likely. At least until Fall 2024, Toei will be following Toriyama's lead to make the Daima anime.

Just got a random thought.

What if DB Daima will fit in somehow timeline wise after the TOP arc of Super? Like some new big bad makes them kids in Daima and at the end they will come back as adults and TOEI will surprise us with continuing the Super anime story from that point? So Daima will "transform" into Super continuation, would be a huge surprise

[Basaku]

Future Trunks, Broly, and 90% of BoG were Toyotaro's ideas? That's completely new to me, I have never heard of this before.

The pitches/general ideas for Future Trunks & Broly getting brought into new canon came from the Dragon Room. Toriyama agreed and turned them into napkin outlines. Same as with Toyo pitching Granolah and Toriyama drafting an outline from that.

As far as BoG is concerned, it was an idea originating from Toei, but Toriyama revised the script in its entirety and Toei followed his lead.

All of the core ideas came from Toei. Super Saiyan God, God of Destruction. That's the point.

I don't get how can you consider BOG a "Toriyama story" when the core plot of it came from Toei while at the same time you don't consider Granolah a "Toriyama story" when he wrote most of the general outline of it. That just looks to me like selective picking&chosing whatever suits your personal opinion/bias towards each particular arc, or a narration regarding which parts you want to get adapted/considered "Toriyama canon" and which you personally don't want to.

Either we apply at least similar standards of categorization to all of modern DB revival arcs or not at all. Granolah is more of a Toriyama's original creation than BOG ever was.

[SupremeKai25]

The pitches/general ideas for Future Trunks & Broly getting brought into new canon came from the Dragon Room. Toriyama agreed and turned them into napkin outlines. Same as with Toyo pitching Granolah and Toriyama drafting an outline from that.

Impossible for the Future Trunks arc. The Dragon Room was established on June 2016, by which point the Future Trunks arc had already started airing on Toei's Anime.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/10/14/s ... e-content/

And we know that Toriyama gave Toyotaro the original draft of the arc, as the Herms-translated interview shows you.

For the Broly movie, do you have a source the original idea didn't come from Toriyama?

All of the core ideas came from Toei. Super Saiyan God, God of Destruction. That's the point.

Yes, they came from Toei... So Toei animated them, because they were THEIR ideas, so naturally they would animate THEIR ideas (although they still wanted Toriyama's input).

I don't get how can you consider BOG a "Toriyama story" when the core plot of it came from Toei while at the same time you don't consider Granolah a "Toriyama story" when he wrote most of the general outline of it. That just looks to me like selective picking&chosing whatever suits your personal opinion/bias towards each particular arc, or a narration regarding which parts you want to get adapted/considered "Toriyama canon" and which you personally don't want to.

I never said that BoG is a Toriyama-penned story. I have only been mentioning the U6/FT/TOP arcs as Toriyama's stories.

And I acknowledge that Toriyama provided a draft and some character designs for the Granolah arc, but is that enough to call it a "Toriyama-penned story"? Did he have the original idea, or did that come from Toyotaro?

And if it was a Toriyama's idea, why Toei hasn't animated it? Toei always follows Toriyama's lead. You saw it with BoG. Toei made their own version of the movie that Toriyama then overhauled, and Toei went along with it.

[VegettoEX]

There are a lot of weird questions being asked here, if I'm being honest. Lots of borderline conspiracy theory stuff.

Why wasn't the Moro arc adapted after the Tournament of Power? Because the show was over. It wasn't on the air anymore. A show that doesn't exist can't adapt something new. The Moro arc hadn't begun by the time the show was over. Instead, they were already doing production for the Broly film. They had already decided the show was ending and to do a movie next. It's just a really simple explanation of events here.

(That's, of course, a separate question and conversation from "Why are the powers-that-be creating an entirely new series with an entirely new storyline rather than reviving the previous continuity and story and starting with the Moro arc?")

As for the Trunks arc origin, we know for a fact it was an editorial suggestion. The "Room" didn't exist yet, so sure it's not fair to attribute it to that entity, but the fact's the fact here:

Next up in Dragon Ball Super, adult Trunks will be putting in his first appearance in a long time! I put together this story based on a suggestion from the editorial office. Like last time, I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.

And yes, Broly was also the result of suggested pitches:

First, around the spring of 2017, we presented Toriyama-sensei with several different story suggestions for the new movie. I believe there were also suggestions that weren’t in his strike zone at all, but using what we threw his way as a reference, we got him to come up with the story.

I have an extreeeeeeeemely long (and long-overdue!) "Rumor Guide" entry that's ostensibly meant to explain the "author" of the DBS manga specifically, but in doing so, I also outline and cite all of these prior arc/movie ideations, as well. Otanoshimini, I guess!

The long and short:

• Battle of Gods: originally a Toei production independent of Toriyama with Yusuke Watanabe and Tadayoshi Yamamuro; Kazuhiko Torishima nudged Akira Toriyama to look at it, and he wound up revising and rewriting much (most?) of the film
• Resurrection 'F': completely original from Akira Toriyama
• Those two arcs in Super: a Toriyama suggestion
• Universe 6: concept origin not documented (I think? right?), but Toriyama provided a draft for the arc
• Future Trunks: editorial suggestion, then fleshed out into a draft by Toriyama (and even then, much like with other things, we have feedback from Toyotaro for events like Vegetto, suggesting lots of ongoing thoughts and changes that filter to and from both the manga and television teams)
• Tournament of Power: concept origin not documented (I think? right?), but God of Destruction character designs split between Toriyama & Toyotaro; ongoing examples of meddling / decision changes from Toriyama (e.g., creation of Caulifla in response to Kale, rearranging of Jiren's characterization with Toppo, etc.)
• Broly: the result of editorial pitches, fleshed into a story by Toriyama
• Moro: a mostly Toyotaro directed and outlined arc, still with plenty of input and designs and decisions from Toriyama
• Granolla: a pitch from Toyotaro that Toriyama then provided a draft for; we heard going into this arc that Toriyama, Toyotaro, and Uchida would meet to narrow down potential story arc ideas
• Super Hero: concept origin not documented (I think? right? this is one I'm definitely behind on...), but written by Toriyama

[ABED]

Dragon Ball is a show that is just not working in a usual 26/52 episode seasons/year. It needs to go continously like Naruto/Boruto or One Piece, the lore, the "epicness" can't be contained into seasons..

There's only a little problem with that:
DB Fans hate "filler" (or non-Toriyama content) with a burning passion, so unless they learn to put up with it, it can't go on continously.

I'd be interested to know if that were in fact the case. Sure, you'll find endless complaints about filler for numerous shows all over the internet, but it didn't seem to hurt DBZ's or One Piece's popularity.

[Basaku]

Impossible for the Future Trunks arc. The Dragon Room was established on June 2016, by which point the Future Trunks arc had already started airing on Toei's Anime.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/10/14/s ... e-content/

And we know that Toriyama gave Toyotaro the original draft of the arc, as the Herms-translated interview shows you.

For the Broly movie, do you have a source the original idea didn't come from Toriyama?

Covers both Broly and Future Trunks:
https://twitter.com/kanzenshuu/status/1 ... 9307248047

Doesn't matter what the Dragon Room was called before 2016 or how it was structured, we're still talking the same circle of key Shueisha/Toei/Toyo/Tori people involved

I mean, even in the original Future Trunks announcement has Toriyama himself talking openly that it started as an editorial suggestion:

And I acknowledge that Toriyama provided a draft and some character designs for the Granolah arc, but is that enough to call it a "Toriyama-penned story"? Did he have the original idea, or did that come from Toyotaro?

Dunno, that's up to you to decide. I feel like Future Trunks' story is "his" story in the end because even tho the initial idea came from someone else he still went along with it and constructed the core story outline for it. Same for BOG - the ideas came from Toei, but he went along, tweaked some stuff and stamped it as his vision. Just as he did with Granolah. Toyo pitched the character of Granolah but Toriyama came up with most and the actual core story draft - he added the Heeters (designs were Toyo), the new Dragon Balls, Monaito etc.

https://en.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_392.html

And if it was a Toriyama's idea, why Toei hasn't animated it?

There are hundreds of possible reasons. But I'm against selectively picking facts to suit our argument(s), in this case downplaying Toriyama's authorship of Granolah to prop the narrative that "it's not his story so that's why Toei won't animate it". Especially when pre-Moro content has multiple examples and instances of Toriyama being just as involved or much less involved. It just makes no sense. We could argue that with Moro's arc because that one from all sources sounds like primarly Toyo's ideas, only with Toriyama's supervision (although it was Toriyama who came up with Meerus, rather key element of the whole saga). But not for the Granolah Saga...

And in the wider context of a potential Super 2 anime - most people expect/predict that if it happens it would likely retell Broly and Super Hero movies as well. And these 2 movies are obviously very Toriyama... So having Broly/Granolah/SuperHero as 3 potential arcs being heavily "Toriyama's creations" and Moro as the only one not... the excuse that Toei doesn't want to do Super 2 because it wouldn't be "Toriyama enough" just doesn't make sense to me.

Super Hero: concept origin not documented (I think? right? this is one I'm definitely behind on...), but written by Toriyama[/list]

From what we know, tl;dr version: Toriyama had general Piccolo movie idea, but Iyoku convinced him to include Gohan. So mostly Tori but Gohan's part in big thanks to editorial pushing

[ATA]

I prefer to apply Occam's Razor.

They don't continue the Super series because the Tournament of Power arc is the perfect and definitive conclusion for the Super storyline.

Goku has mastered Ultra Instinct. Beerus and the other Destroyers acknowledge their respect and are in awe, implying that they are surpassed. Goku has defeated the mortal stronger than the Destroyers. The fight involved the entire Multiverse, so you can't raise the stakes any further. Huge crowds were watching the grand finale in city squares live-stream.

The perfect conclusion. There is no reason to continue the Super storyline after this, and Toei was wise to retire the Anime with the TOP arc.

All these new movies and manga arcs that came after the TOP arc/2018 are just milking the cash cow.

We might be in the minority in this. This exactly why I think the anime that continues Super's storyline will not be called DB Super. I still think they will adapt the Super manga but the anime will have a different name.

[Hellspawn28]

Bandai would need ways to sell merch for Black Freeza and Ultra Ego Vegeta. Those two will sell like hot cakes to the non manga readers.

[Dr. Casey]

Dragon Ball is a show that is just not working in a usual 26/52 episode seasons/year. It needs to go continously like Naruto/Boruto or One Piece, the lore, the "epicness" can't be contained into seasons..

There's only a little problem with that:
DB Fans hate "filler" (or non-Toriyama content) with a burning passion, so unless they learn to put up with it, it can't go on continously.

I'd be interested to know if that were in fact the case. Sure, you'll find endless complaints about filler for numerous shows all over the internet, but it didn't seem to hurt DBZ's or One Piece's popularity.

One Piece filler arcs have always been fairly infrequent (the last actual filler 'arc' was back in 2016, with only isolated filler episodes here and there since then) so they've never received a strong reaction from the community, minus some groaning whenever they show up due to being of low quality. I was never into Naruto, but I do find the legendary Filler Hell morbidly hilarious. May 2005 to February 2007.

Overall anime fans are fixated on 'filler' much less than they used to be, mainly because anime nowadays tend to be only 12-25 episodes long and so anime-original content is either absent or much briefer in nature. The hatred for filler and the fixation on it seems more like an 80s and 90s thing, maybe some of the 2000s as well but not the whole decade. Beyond that point, the concept of filler episodes and filler arcs have been largely forgotten (because they aren't common) and the main focus of anime fans by and large has been how faithfully the adapted material is reproduced - whether characters remain true to their original characterization, whether plot points are changed or content cut out, etc.

[Basaku]

Overall anime fans are fixated on 'filler' much less than they used to be, mainly because anime nowadays tend to be only 12-25 episodes long and so anime-original content is either absent or much briefer in nature. The hatred for filler and the fixation on it seems more like an 80s and 90s thing, maybe some of the 2000s as well but not the whole decade.

Plus it also depended heavily on the quality of the filler and what it added to the story. Saint Seiya's biggest filler (the Asgard saga) was actually well liked and enriched/expanded the franchise's lore and worldbuilding. 90s Sailor Moon filler is also way more appreciated now after the... questionable modern Crystal/Eternal/Cosmos

[Dr. Casey]

That's interesting about the Asgard arc, I haven't ever seen any Saint Seiya (minus the first episode; I watched the first episode from various anime for every year 1961+ a few years ago to get a feel for the history of anime, the trends of each decade and the development of the medium. I did the same for shorts going back to 1907, though there's very little preserved from prior to the 1920s). The quality of the filler did make a major difference. A lot of filler from the old days actually was pretty bad. The filler arc from Nadia has incredibly few fans, and the Ranma anime was probably weaker for the fact that manga stories became rarer as the series went along (though the anime still had a lot of great original material despite on the overall whole averaging out to not being as good as the manga for most people). Sailor Moon has such little resemblance to the source that I don't really consider it an adaptation so much as an alternate version and thus lacks filler episodes, but it's one of my favorite anime of all time.

[Basaku]

That's interesting about the Asgard arc, I haven't ever seen any Saint Seiya (minus the first episode; I watched the first episode from various anime for every year 1961+ a few years ago to get a feel for the history of anime, the trends of each decade and the development of the medium. I did the same for shorts going back to 1907, though there's very little preserved from prior to the 1920s). The quality of the filler did make a major difference. A lot of filler from the old days actually was pretty bad. The filler arc from Nadia has incredibly few fans, and the Ranma anime was probably weaker for the fact that manga stories became rarer as the series went along (though the anime still had a lot of great original material despite on the overall whole averaging out to not being as good as the manga for most people). Sailor Moon has such little resemblance to the source that I don't really consider it an adaptation so much as an alternate version and thus lacks filler episodes, but it's one of my favorite anime of all time.

Ohhh don't get me wrong, probably most of the filler in major running anime shows was bad and got the deserved flack, but there were some cases where the staff really tried to make it as good as possible under the circumstances and it turned out to be a plus for the franchise,like the Asgard arc. With Dragon Ball we have the Otherworld Torunament which is not disliked at all too. Unlike the Garlic Jr one heh

With Sailor Moon I doubt people would want back the absolute BLOAT of filler episodes and Monsters of the Day from earlier 90s seasons, but the new readaptations proved quite clearly that at least a little bit of it is needed to develop the characters and give the plot some much needed breaks/pauses