Is Tenshinhan considered human? Tenshinhan vs Kuririn

[Drunken Master]

Hi. I've been debating these topics for a LONG time in my online DB career, and I've put together many ideas, and evidence, what have you. If you'd like to add something, comment, or debate an idea, please go ahead. I'm not biased as both Tenshinhan and Kuririn are in my top 3 favorite fighters. Although, I must admit, Tenshinhan is my favorite while Kuririn is #3. Piccolo is my second favorite by the way. Anyhow, my debate is this - Tenshinhan isn't considered a human, and is infact stronger than Kuririn. The whole ancestory thing has to do with Yamcha saying Kuririn is the strongest human fighter. I really didn't have to debate that part seeing as how Yamcha hasn't seen or sensed Tenshinhan's power in seven years, but it helps. Oh yeah, could someone verify if that interview with Toriyama happened? I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere legit, but my memory is not so good. Thanks. Also, some might not make good sense because some of it was aimed at certain debators in the past...Like someone tried to argue that Tenshinhan gave up training completely when he refused the ROSAT training in the Cell saga. Silly people. Oh yeah, by the way...I don't use the anime to back up anything. I use the Viz manga.

Tenshinhan's Ancestory
We have a scan from the Daizenshuu stating that Tenshinhan has ancestory from different race, and it obviously shows. No human has been shown to have 3 eyes, no human has been shown to grow an extra set of arms and no human has been shown to have the ability to make living, breathing clones. There's no other being we know of that could do that, not even Piccolo. Only Tenshinhan has those special abilities. Also take note of Roshi's reaction to Ten growing those arms. You can tell that in all his years he's never seen anything like it before, he was shocked, confused and seemed horrified. Tenshinhan is either a hybrid of his ancient ancestors and the human race, or he is of pure decent from his ancestory. We don't know, but we DO know that he is not a pure human. Saying otherwise would be an assumption and would be contradicted by manga proof and by the official Dragon Ball information database, the Daizenshuu. Akira Toriyama (apparently) was asked if Tenshinhan was human in a interview, and he (apparently) avoided the question by answering something else. Hmm...why would he do that? It's pretty easy to say "Yes, he is human". I'll try looking for the interview and I will try verifying if it's true. Here's the scan of ancestory for reference. Also, in the game 'Dragon Ball Z Tenkaichi Budokai' there is a wealth of very accurate information in bios of all the characters. Tenshinhan's states the following -

"As a decendant of aliens, his body possesses unique characteristics which he demonstrates often in the Dragon Ball series, such as the ability to split himself into four seperate fighters or sprout extra arms from his shoulders- unthinkable behavior as far as normal Earthlings are concerned."

Tenshinhan's Heavenly Training
This scan shows that all the fighters want training tougher than what Goku received. This scan shows that even at a much higher power levels, the gravity still affects them. This scan is about Tenshinhan's and Piccolo's extreme will to train. Tenshinhan also has a little speech to himself about how he will train. He's very serious about this training and he's training to defeat Goku once again. Thus meaning he would train his hardest in better training conditions than what Goku received. They are all stronger, so of course North Kaio would give them stronger training conditions. This scan shows the results of Piccolo's training, even thought he trained for a short amount of time. Read Nail's dialogue. In only a few days Piccolo's power increased in a very noticeable fashion. Piccolo knows he's much stronger and Nail greatly compliments his power. Regular Namekian warriors are around the 3,000 power level marking. Notice Nail's quote: "You have an astonishing amount of power." So common sense deems that Piccolo is going to be much more than 3,000. This shows that North Kaio is indeed training them harder. Their training doesn't have to be shown for us to know that it's happening, we know that North Kaio is training them harder than Goku just by that scan. North Kaio wouldn't have announced that they wanted to train harder and then just not let it happen. Especially with Piccolo and Tenshinhan around. Tenshinhan stayed longer than what Goku did, he always had sparring partners which in every case is good, he was trained harder by North Kaio, and he has an extreme will to train his hardest and do his best because he's training to defeat Goku. Now Goku trained with Kami and Popo for three years. Tenshinhan trained with them for less than 6 months, yet he recieved a MUCH bigger boost in power. As the enemies kept getting stronger, Akira had to make the heroes get stronger. Tenshinhan would have recieved a huge boost in power from his training with North Kaio as other allies and enemies were getting stronger by every chapter.

Tenshinhan's Android Training
He returned to the mountains to train with Chiaotzu while Kuririn trained by himself at Kame House. So let's compare some things. Tenshinhan's persona about training is much more serious than Kuririn's, that's just a fact. Like stated before, Tenshinhan trained with a partner for three years while Kuririn trained by himself. Being in the mountains, there's no distractions from training. I'm sure Tenshinhan would have trained, ate, slept, woke up and trained again. There's no way that Chiaotzu could spar with Tenshinhan right? Wrong. Gohan sparred with Piccolo and SSj Goku during the three years of training. There's many ways that he could have helped Tenshinhan with his psychic abilities anyhow. All the fighters besides Vegeta were training regularly on Earth during this saga. Now why would they train like that if regular Earthly training didn't affect them? Surely if the 10x gravity on Kaio's planet barely affected Tenshinhan anymore, then regular Earth training wouldn't have any affect at all. That’s to counter people saying that Tenshinhan couldn’t have received much good from his training with North Kaio because he was too strong for the gravity. Yet we see the results of their training. Gohan turned SSj pretty quickly in the ROSAT, thus meaning his base power should have improved very significantly from his Earthly training with Piccolo and Goku. Piccolo could take on Gero by himself, surprising nearly everyone, SSj Goku was strong as hell, and Tenshinhan held down Cell with his ki. Here's the only scan of Tenshinhan during that training.

The Android Threat
The fact of the matter here is that Goku picked both Tenshinhan and Piccolo over Kuririn to help him with the androids. Yamcha is nearly dead and the two androids the group trained so hard for are right in front of them. They trained their asses off because of these two threats, so wouldn't it be common sense for Goku to pick the two strongest to stay with him just in case? Especially after hearing how strong they are from Trunks, and the fact that Goku couldn't sense how strong they actually were? Of course. Not only was Tenshinhan closer to Yamcha, but he was standing right next to Goku. So why is Goku going to turn and yell over at Kuririn to take Yamcha back? This scan shows it. Proof of Tenshinhan's strength can be seen with his neo tri-beam. That's the power of his ki raining down on Cell. Also, I'd like to show you these two scans for multiple reasons. First the scans: here and here. First off, look at their stances in the first scan. They were all ready to fight the androids. This supports my assumption that Goku would have picked the two strongest fighters to stay, I mean...Isn't it common sense? Even if Goku didn't want them to fight, he'd want the strongest backup. Goku couldn't have known if the androids were going to attack them right there or not, thus why he picked the strongest to stay behind. The second scan shows Tenshinhan's new strength. Not only did he see Gero's attack coming at him, but he also dodged it with Goku. I'm not saying he was around base Goku's strength, but he has to be pretty strong to do those things. Now…Trunks, Tenshinhan and Kuririn arrive where Piccolo is after his skirmish with Imperfect Cell. A plan is made, one pair goes after Cell, while the other pair find Gero's lab with pupil Cell and destroys that. Trunks leads the team that will search for the lab because he knows where it is, and knows what's going on in this situation, and it's his sole duty to stop the threat of Cell in this timeline. Piccolo leads the team that will try to find Imperfect Cell. Piccolo has to pick between Tenshinhan and Kuririn. He'd pick the better, stronger choice to help him track down Cell, right? Of course he would. Cell is extremely strong and dangerous. Again, that seems like common sense to me. Well, anyways...Do you remember who Piccolo picked? Check it out right here. Oh yeah, now look at this scan. It seems that Tenshinhan wants to help pretty badly, doesn't it? The reason he didn't go into the ROSAT near the end of the android saga saga was because only the Saiyans had a chance against Perfect Cell. He STILL wouldn't have been able to help in any way even if he went in the ROSAT, thus why he didn't. He knew that the Saiyans were the only chance, and he knew that he would die anyways if they failed. Once again, the Saiyans were the only chance for this last battle. The lives of everyone hung on their shoulders. If they failed, then everyone would parish. There was no need for him to train for this final battle with Cell. That however does not mean he quit training for the rest of his life. That is an absurd thought and there is no proof to back up that statement.

Tenshinhan's During Those 7 Years After Cell
Krillin and Yamcha are both known to have settled down completely after Cell's death. Krillin because of his family to be, and Yamcha because he just didn't like fighting anymore. Krillin and Yamcha both hung up there martial arts training gis as shown, but Tenshinhan didn't. As for his training regimes not being shown, why would they? He told the others he wouldn't even see them again, so why would Akira show anything about him? Then again, they never really showed his training methods to begin with. Let's focus on the main training first. Did they show his training with Master Shen? Nope. Master Roshi? Nope. Kami and Popo? One scan. North Kaio? Nope. Okay, now what about his other training sessions? How about the timeline from DB-DBZ? Nope. How about that intense 3 years of training? Besides that manga cover I already shown, nope. It never shows him training in the manga like the others IE Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, Goku...because he is a minor supporting character. It's the same with Yamcha and Kuririn. Now, for some proof. Tenshinhan is shown in rocky area with his shirt off, in his martial arts clothing and is sweating. From my perspective it's obvious that he was training. The only other option would be that Tenshinhan sensed the energy attacks coming towards him, quickly threw off his cape and martial-arts robe for some reason and dodged the little, weak ki attacks meant for humans and sweated while dodging one of Buu's ki beams. One ki beam was meant for Chiaotzu and the other one was for Tenshinhan. Here’s the scan for reference.

Miscellaneous
1. Tenshinhan vs. Kuririn
If Kuririn was stronger, Tenshinhan would have had a little comment about it. He was training to surpass Goku afterall. When the androids appear he complains that he doesn't like how strong Piccolo and Vegeta have become. Well, wouldn't he say something about the little monk? Tenshinhan has always been stronger than Kuririn. Then one day Kuririn somehow surpasses him and Ten doesn't say anything about it...? The thing is, he didn't say anything even close to hinting it, and Tenshinhan probably has the second most pride next to Vegeta. This is not exactly evidence, but more of a personality trait, and something I'm pretty sure would have happened if Kuririn was indeed stronger, which I think I proved he wasn't.
2. Goku's Ancestory in 'Dragon Ball'
People considered Goku human in 'Dragon Ball', so they probably considered Tenshinhan human as well. Not at all. The manga holds the anime of DB and DBZ, and is called "Dragon Ball". Thus, we later discovery down the line of the manga that Goku is infact NOT human. This however never happened with Tenshinhan. Besides, people were always shocked when Goku showed off his tail, or turned into a giant monkey. They were the same shocked looks like when Tenshinhan split, or grew extra limbs. I'm pretty sure they knew Goku wasn't 'normal'. I also remember quotes like "what is he?" many times in the manga.
3. How strong and excellent of a fighter is Tenshinhan?
Tenshinhan should be use to comments about his strength and technique, as almost every fighter who fights him or at least witnesses him fight gives him at least one good comment. Even the strongest villian in the Dragon Ball manga seems to be impressed about his skill as seen here. As you can see, Boo says Tenshinhan is a "legendary fighter". Boo's knowledge of Tenshinhan should be derived from Piccolo as well, thus making this statement that much better. Kuririn gets get comments as well of course, but as the series progresses, no one even really comments about him anymore.

EDIT
If you want to take DBGT into account, then it once again points to Tenshinhan being stronger. Not only is Tenshinhan still in peak condition, but it looks like he hasn't aged AT ALL. Plus it helps that it looks like he was training when pans to him in GT.

Tenshinhan
Kuririn

[HP]

Is Tenshinhan considered human? Tenshinhan & Kuririn?

I guess so...

[Ricochet0082]

I consider Tenshinhan human. The Dragon Ball world is filled with characters with wild and imaginative abilities and features. Kuririn has no nose but he is human. (Come to think of it, how can he breath when he partakes in one of the many fight scenes where he stares at his opponent if he has no nose? He must hold his breath for a long time or maybe has gills behind his ears.) Chiaotzu is a little guy with one single hair and either wears too much clown make-up or sunscreen lotion. Lunch can change her appearance and personality with a single sneeze.

It's just easier for me to accept that Tenshinhan is human but also a freak. That third eye just never seems to move or blink. Creepy.

[Son Goku]

Is Tenshinhan considered human? Tenshinhan & Kuririn?

Well, when it comes down to it, they're humans, just their parents were living a little too close to the chemical waste.

Though, we could say all the main humans in Dragon Ball are mutants. I mean, Bulma's super-intelligent, Lunch's got that BIG split-personality problem, Mrs. Briefs NEVER aged AT ALL, so on and so forth.

Oh, and welcome to the forum Drunken Master! Please deposit your 12 magic talismans on the bucket to the right.

That third eye just never seems to move or blink. Creepy.

Well, it did move in the Tienshinhan VS Jackie Chun match, but I see your point.

[Steven Perry]

How strong and excellent of a fighter is Tenshinhan?

Tenshinhan should be use to comments about his strength and technique, as almost every fighter who fights him or at least witnesses him fight gives him at least one good comment. Even the strongest villain in the Dragon Ball manga seems to be impressed about his skill as seen here. As you can see, Boo says Tenshinhan is a "legendary fighter". Boo's knowledge of Tenshinhan should be derived from Piccolo as well, thus making this statement that much better. Krillin gets get comments as well of course, but as the series progresses, no one even really comments about him anymore.

If you want to take DBGT into account, then it once again points to Tenshinhan being stronger. Not only is Tenshinhan still in peak condition, but it looks like he hasn't aged AT ALL. Plus it helps that it looks like he was training when pans to him in GT.

Hello Drunken Master! It looks as if you've been in quite a lot of debates! What forum did you originally come from? Come and say "hello" in the introduction thread!

I think it's been firmly established that Tien is a good fighter; although the evidence I'm using to back this up comes from a movie (well, if you're using Dragonball GT... ). In Bojack's movie, he is portrayed as very strong; he causes Trunks a lot of trouble, forcing him to transform! Even after that, Tien holds up a good battle. It seems that the makers of this movie see tien to be a good fighter. Oh yeah, and don't forget: Toriyama gave tien the biggest muscles out of the group.

His third eye could be a birth defect, or something (it's not as if babies aren't born with two heads, right?)...

[Alucard]

His third eye could be a birth defect, or something (it's not as if babies aren't born with two heads, right?)...

LOL, yesterday I saw a baby with three hands in the newspaper!

Oh, and I think Tenshinhan kicks Kuririn's ass.

[Drunken Master]

Thanks for the welcomes. Yes, Tenshinhan was pretty awesome in the Bojack movie. I like what he says to Trunks before the fight...something like "You better not hold back on me Trunks" or something. That fight was pretty awesome, I mean...he destroyed like 35% of the island in that fight. And yeah, I've been in countless, countless debates on these subjects. Well, mainly the Tenshinhan>Kuririn one. Kuririn was pretty lame in that movie, ha ha.

I personally think that Tenshinhan was stronger than Kuririn as soon as he was wished back from North Kaio's planet. Usually the only thing people can say on Kuririn's side is that Yamcha said he was the strongest human fighter, which I don't buy for a second.

The forum I came from? I was the head administrator of the Dragon Ball Unlimited forum.

[Chaos Saiyajin]

I firmly agree with the chemical waste theory.

But then again, I've always considered Tenshinhan to be human...the real question, in my opinion, is what in God's name is Chaozu?

[LaRésistance]

Tenshinhan is my favourite character so you can guess where I stand on that issue.

Tenshinhan was always stronger than Krillin (he would have made short work of Krillin in the first Tenkaichi Budokai he entered). He took his training a lot more seriously than Krillin. Even though he didn't get as strong as the Goku, Vegeta, Gohan... he still managed to help when help was needed.

I could talk about the greatness of Tenshinhan all day (or all night as it is 2:44am here) but I'll stop now.

[Saiyan]

I betcha that if Kuririn shaved off all of his hair off, he would look exactly the same as he did back in the Cell arc, just like Tenshinhan

[Castor Troy]

Tenshinhan was a jerk for telling everyone he wouldn't see them again after the Cell game was over. That's always something that bothered me.

So that qualifies as non-human to me.

[desirecampbell]

Tenshinhan was a jerk for telling everyone he wouldn't see them again after the Cell game was over. That's always something that bothered me.

So that qualifies as non-human to me.

Owned!

Anyway, other than the daizenshuu saying he's from the 'Three-Eyed Tribe' are there any other references to him being anything but human?

[LegendarySSJ7]

I don't want to get into a quarrel, but it has been proven on many occassions that Kuririn is indeed stronger than Tenshinhan. Ever since the Saichourou hidden power unlocking or "power-up", to be precise. The maximum power level Tenshinhan could have reached from training with Kaiosama is is about 10,000 to be fair, while Kuririn was far above 23,000 by the time the Freeza Saga Arc ended. While Tenshinhan may have trained under more rigorous conditions than Kuririn, I think it's safe to presume that Kuririn is the stronger one.

As for Tenshinhan being human or vice versa? Perhaps... perhaps not. But I wouldn't be the one to know for certain.

[desirecampbell]

I don't want to get into a quarrel, but it has been proven on many occassions that Kuririn is indeed stronger than Tenshinhan. Ever since the Saichourou hidden power unlocking or "power-up", to be precise. The maximum power level Tenshinhan could have reached from training with Kaiosama is is about 10,000 to be fair, while Kuririn was far above 23,000 by the time the Freeza Saga Arc ended. While Tenshinhan may have trained under more rigorous conditions than Kuririn, I think it's safe to presume that Kuririn is the stronger one.

I disagree, there's no reason to think that Tien and the others couldn't reach huge levels of power training under Kaio, I mean, even training alone Piccolo was exceedingly powerful (as Nail points out). And Tien and Choatzu spend and extra 4 months training with Kaio. I doubt they came back weaker than the Ginyu force. Krillin, left to train by himself probably gain tremendous strength but couldn't have trained more than Tien, or as hard as Tien.

[LegendarySSJ7]

I disagree, there's no reason to think that Tenshinhan and the others couldn't reach huge levels of power training under Kaio, I mean, even training alone Piccolo was exceedingly powerful (as Nail points out). And Tenshinhan and Choatzu spend and extra 4 months training with Kaio. I doubt they came back weaker than the Ginyu force. Krillin, left to train by himself probably gain tremendous strength but couldn't have trained more than Tenshinhan, or as hard as Tenshinhan.

Are you insinuating the filler in the Anime with the fight with the Ginyu Force on Kaiosama's planet? If so... well... referring to the Canon/Manga universe, I don't see how Tenshinhan could have achieved anywhere nigh the Ginyu Force's level of strength (sans Captain Ginyu, of course), that being around a power level of 45,000.

It's true that Goku had received an insanely stupendous increase after on training Kaiosama's planet for 260 days less than Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chaozu did, by the time Tenshinhan arrived on Kaiosama's planet (somewhere around a 20x increase, by my estimates), his power level was well around 2,000, meaning that he wouldn't have received as much of an increase due to already being used to what far transcends normal gravity. And it's possible that even Kaiosama himself has a limit to the level of power achieved via his training... which is probably around 8,000 - 10,000, to be fair. It's also possible that Nail was so impressed by Piccolo because of the fact that his power level was far higher than any typical Namekian Warrior's.

Then, we have Kuririn, who has already attained a power level of over 10,000 and is even over 23,000 upon doing battle with Ginyu in Goku's body. With the Great Elder's power up still in affect (presumably until the Freeza Saga Arc ended), Kuririn could have been in the 30,000 range whilst fighing Freeza.

Then add on the 3 years of training and.... though I doubt Kuririn was anywhere near even Freeza's 1st form in terms of power, I'd think putting him at 150,000 wouldn't be a counterfactual estimate. I would say Tenshinhan would be roughly at 100,000 by the time the 3 years leading onto the advent of the Artificial Humans ended and he finished training.

Anyway, enough about power levels. I don't want to argue any further, but it's just what I believe is true.

[Drunken Master]

Well, Yamcha didn't stay as long as Ten and Chaozu.

I don't like restraints on power...It can't work really. If Tenshinhan didn't get a big boost from all his heaven training, then how did the gang get so strong just from regular training on Earth in the Android saga? The 10x gravity is just a big power bonus no matter what. Add the fact that Tenshinhan had training parters the whole time, that he was still training to defeat Goku, that North Kaio trained them harder than Goku, and that he and Chaozu were the only ones up there with North Kaio for a long time...

That's a recipe for strength. Yamcha said he could barely run, and he was much stronger than Goku when he arrived. Piccolo only trained for a little bit and his new power impressed Nail.

Also, Kuririn trained by himself for the Androids, when Tenshinhan trained with Chaozu. Sparring partners are good power boosters. I don't think it's a coincendence that Tenshinhan got picked over Kuririn twice by two of the greatest fighters. Also, I'm guessing that Kuririn didn't attack the Androids because he was the weakest in that certain group. If you were the weakest of the group, you'd be a little bit of a coward. Kuririn was never a coward, but he acted like one in that certain scene. Tenshinhan and Piccolo charged like they were confindent in their power. Also, knowing Tenshinhan, he would have said something about Kuririn being stonger. He did complain about Piccolo and Vegeta's power. Also, Goku still trains with North Kaio later in the series...I doubt there's any limit for a God.

Oh yeah, not to mention that Tenshinhan's kikoho barely touched Nappa, but his shin kikoho (he probably enhanced it with North Kaio) could hold down Cell's second form. He's not pulling that ki out of thin air, it's his power that was pushing Cell down. He was much more powerful.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

The infamous internet power level of Raditz is stated to be 1,500 on some sites. It's an error. The Daizenshuu lists Raditz at 1,200. I've seen it personally.

Umm, not it doesn't. I have Dragon Ball Landmark (which states that it's power levels were originally printed in the Daizenshuu books), and it also lists Raditz at 1,500, and lists the Saibaimen as 1,200.

[Super DC]

Also Kuririn didn't go above 23,000. He was most likly equal or lower. Ginyu later ended up with the upper hand in the last panel. He was matching Kuririn and at the end had Gohan in his clutches. If he was really over powered he wouldn't have been able to match Kuririn and also hold off Gohan.

[The S]

I've always thought of Tenshinhan of being human, and that he achieved a third eye do to the Buddhist concept of spiritual training. Of course with the Daizenshuu's explanation, he could be like Sharaku and actually descended from a race of ancient beings.

[Drunken Master]

The infamous internet power level of Raditz is stated to be 1,500 on some sites. It's an error. The Daizenshuu lists Raditz at 1,200. I've seen it personally.

Umm, not it doesn't. I have Dragon Ball Landmark (which states that it's power levels were originally printed in the Daizenshuu books), and it also lists Raditz at 1,500, and lists the Saibaimen as 1,200.

I don't know what to say. I personally saw the power levels in the French-translated version of the books. It cleary read under Raditz' huge picture that he was 1,200.

As for Tenshinhan being considered human...I don't believe it. Kuririn has no nose. And...? It makes him more satirical, I mean his eyes are also different. From the very beginning he was that comical character that you couldn't really trust, and I'm sure that was Toriyama's point. Now Tenshinhan has three eyes, he can grow TWO extra arms, and split himself into FOUR different bodies. That's not from the human race, and the Daizenshuu and DBZ: Budokai Tenka'ichi point this out. No one can do what Tenshinhan could. I should scan the reactions of Son Goku, Piccolo, Kuririn and Kame-sen'nin. They were all shocked by Tenshinhan's abilities. Their faces are priceless. Anyhow, even if Kuririn doesn't look like a normal human, he still has normal human powers and abilities. Just like Yamcha and Kame-sen'nin. Tenshinhan's abilites however...



don't resemble human abilities at all. Not even Piccolo could do those.