Kanzenshuu

SSJ-Gokule · Post by **SSJ-Gokule** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:31 pm

I've been reading threads about GT coming back to CN and no one seems very happy about it. Why do not many people like GT? Besides the continuity issues, what is so bad about it?

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:41 pm

Bad plot, bad characters, bad character designs (I really hate SSJ4), bad waste of potential characters (Uub, Goten, Trunks), just bad everything in my opinion.

If GT was more like the DBZ movies, then it would have been ok.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:43 pm

The plots are derivative, the story focuses entirely on Goku, logic seems to hold no ground (spinning fan blades? oh noes!), and even the music is forgettable.

It is, all in all, not good.

My main problem is the focus on Goku. Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Uub, Videl, Tien, Yamcha, Dende, eben Pan get much less screentime then they deserve. Especially Uub. He's supposed to be the new saviour of Earth, trained by Goku. And he doesn't do anything.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:44 pm

SSJ-Gokule wrote:I've been reading threads about GT coming back to CN and no one seems very happy about it. Why do not many people like GT? Besides the continuity issues, what is so bad about it?

It takes a lot to get me to sit down and watch DBGT, nevermind the "Step Into Tha Grand Tour, Mutha Fucka!!!" version.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:47 pm

VegettoEX wrote:It takes a lot to get me to sit down and watch DBGT, nevermind the "Step Into Tha Grand Tour, Mutha Fucka!!!" version.

Hahaha, well someone got 'wrapped up' in making One-Piece and GT dub-friendly. But at least they didn't insert terrible CGI neon signs.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:48 pm

GT was okay for about the first 16 episodes. It was all in good fun and didn't really bother me despite some major out of character-ness for Gokuh. However as the series became more fighting oriented again it lost all sense of plot and logic. All they did was recycle villains and give Gokuh a ridiculous amount of spotlight considering that in Z he had pretty much handed the torch over to characters like Uub and Gohan. Overall it was just a creepy experience for me and it didn't feel at all like the Dragonball I knew and loved.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:54 pm

I like the fact that it is showing what COULD happen after DBZ. *my fanfic will fix that!* Oh, and about that Grand Tour, Motha F*cka! I am guessing it doesn't exist. If so, I would love to hear it. One more thing, forgettable Music!?! Dan Dan(The english version isn't half bad either), Don't You See, Hitori Janai, and Blue Velvet Happen to be in the top 10 of my favorite DB/Z/Gt songs ever! Unless you mean the American opening, then you are wrong. It's so bad that I couldn't forget it even though I want to!

Post by **desirecampbell** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:06 pm

One Piece 4Kids opening

'Step into the Grand Tour'

Blue Water GT opening

Blue Water DragonBall opening

forgettable Music!?! Dan Dan(The English version isn't half bad either), Don't You See, Hitori Janai, and Blue Velvet Happen to be in the top 10 of my favorite DB/Z/Gt songs ever!

I meant 'other than Dan Dan and Blue Velvet'. Most of the background music is, not bad, but not memorable either. Of course, we should count our blessings it's not 'Step into the Grand Tour'.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:15 pm

Thanks for the vids, ya gotta love YouTube(FunkMonkey777 needs friends!). Oh, and you're darn right on that second comment!

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:23 pm

You know interestingly the One Piece intro isn't half bad. So it's wrong to use it as the intro to the show, but it'd be ok as a music video.

The GT rap on the other hand...well that song just isn't good period.

majix101 · Post by **majix101** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:26 pm

Only thing wrong with it is the sensitive people with sensitive feelings who can't seem to think positve.

Iyouboushi · Post by **Iyouboushi** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:29 pm

desirecampbell wrote:But at least they didn't insert terrible CGI neon signs.

Wow, that's hilarious. To me it almost sounds like the Mentos commercial jingle.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:57 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Hahaha, well someone got 'wrapped up' in making One-Piece and GT dub-friendly. But at least they didn't insert terrible CGI neon signs.

Somehow, this is so random I think Toriyama would approve.

Sunlight & City Night · Post by **Sunlight & City Night** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:01 pm

Iyouboushi wrote: Wow, that's hilarious. To me it almost sounds like the Mentos commercial jingle.

The music is from the French dub.

Part of me likes GT. It's just frustrating when you see all the things Toei could have done so well done so bad.
I still have fond memories of the final episode.

Majin Cell · Post by **Majin Cell** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:16 pm

Well, personaly, i don't think GT is very good. I've seen most of the series and i have to say , when i compare it to Mr.Toriyamas work it just pales in comparison. For the first 15 episodes nothing happens, then when stuff does start to happen ,the plots are just copies of plots that have already been done before. I actually own a lot of the series on DVD because i wanted to see the series for myself. But i'm thinking of selling them because after watching them all multiple times, the show just is'nt as interesting to watch after the first time. You could say i have buyers regret over my GT DVD's. In short GT is just a boring , uninspired and flat out bad copy of Mr.Toriyamas work. However this is all just my opinion so if anyone disagrees, that's OK.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:59 pm

SSJ-Gokule wrote:I've been reading threads about GT coming back to CN and no one seems very happy about it. Why do not many people like GT? Besides the continuity issues, what is so bad about it?

Eh, just a lot of wasted potential, really. GT already had the stigma of being a series that Toriyama didn't author (meaning for many that it was an attempt to pump an already dry well), and didn't really do much to prove people's worries to be unfounded.

Characters got ruined, either in terms of design or storylines.

-Vejita, who had made amends with Goku, was put back into conflict with him just for lack of a better use. Plus, his definitive look was turned into a bland, biker-trash motif.

-Pan? Oh Pan...the girl who could have been the most powerful in the Son family was reduced to crap. SSJ? Don't care. Hell, she could have inherited Gohan's 'mystic' powerup much as Goten and Trunks seemingly inherited SSJ from Goku and Vejita.

-Uub. 'Nuff said.

-Goten and Trunks = Gotenks? Nah, let's just have Goku save the day. Again.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate GT with a fiery vengence, but it definitely had its serious flaws. At least they pulled it together for the last episode.

-Corey

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:42 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
SSJ-Gokule wrote:I've been reading threads about GT coming back to CN and no one seems very happy about it. Why do not many people like GT? Besides the continuity issues, what is so bad about it?
Eh, just a lot of wasted potential, really. GT already had the stigma of being a series that Toriyama didn't author (meaning for many that it was an attempt to pump an already dry well), and didn't really do much to prove people's worries to be unfounded.

Characters got ruined, either in terms of design or storylines.

-Vejita, who had made amends with Goku, was put back into conflict with him just for lack of a better use. Plus, his definitive look was turned into a bland, biker-trash motif.

-Pan? Oh Pan...the girl who could have been the most powerful in the Son family was reduced to crap. SSJ? Don't care. Hell, she could have inherited Gohan's 'mystic' powerup much as Goten and Trunks seemingly inherited SSJ from Goku and Vejita.

-Uub. 'Nuff said.

-Goten and Trunks = Gotenks? Nah, let's just have Goku save the day. Again.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate GT with a fiery vengence, but it definitely had its serious flaws. At least they pulled it together for the last episode.

-Corey

I have to agree with you on the whole "characters being ruined" situation. That is what really turned me away from GT.

I mean, Piccolo did literally nothing. And I am not going to count how he got Goku out of Hell.

Apparently, Gotenks never existed.

Gohan forgot how to fight, and Pan is just downright weak. You can't go from being an ass-kicking 3 year-old to a mediocre fighter with powers. She has legendary Super Saiyan blood for Godsake! Her grandfather ascended to every form of Saiyan before anyone else, with the exception of SSJ2 and that's only because her father did it. And at the age of 11. Her uncle went SSJ at 5...or was it 6, and her grandmother was a damn good fighter. Her mother was strong enough to hang with a Majin. . .

. . .let me run that back. . .

Videl has hanging with a Majin fighter and even managed to brake his neck. She could even manipulate her ki, to an extent, a very low extent. Mr. Satan was even tough as hell too. He's not crap to the others but if Goku, Freeza, and co. didn't exist, he would possibly be the strongest. *sigh* She just could have been a whole lot stronger.

Gogeta was turned into a clown. He was not the malicious bastard that owned Janemba. F'real, what asshole shoots fake kamehamehas, to the strongest villain to surface the earth at that? Come on now, how are you the strongest being in the universe and loose a battle to someone who should be your bitch? I bet if that was Vegitto in there, there wouldn't have been a fight.

Vegitto, don't fuck around.

If that was SSJ4 Vegitto in the ring, Super Yi Xing Shen Long would have looked like this

Werd.

Majin Cell · Post by **Majin Cell** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:47 am

Good point about Pan. Considering her bloodline, she should've indeed been a lot stronger than she was in GT. *sigh* Well this is what happens when you try to milk something past it's prime.

Domon · Post by **Domon** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:09 am

Oooh boy, it's time for me to get on my soapbox...

Well, yet another thread where all the negative about GT is pointed out (ho hum), and none of the positive, or almost none. Really, with all this negatively about GT being tossed around, it's hard for those who actually liked the series(yes, proclaim gasps and shocks of horror, yadda yadda yadda...) to express their support and appreciation of the show.

Yes, GT has it's flaws and problemetic aspects, no one deines that. Yes, Goku does gets too much of the spotlight. Yes, the other characters should've ended up doing more, making meaningful contribution to fights, if nothing else. Yes, it's odd that Pan doesn't go SSJ at least once.

However, even with all of that, some of up did find GT an entertaining and enjoyable series. I went into GT with mixed feelings(mostly of the "but Toriyama didn't actually write this or anything" type), but with an open mind. So I watched an episode, then another, then another. I was actaully interested in seeing what was going on and what was going to happen(it helped that I didn't look around too much for spoilers). Some people says that it's a disadvantage that Toriyama didn't write the series or that it isn't based on any storyline he wrote. I say it's an advantage. Going into the series knowing that it wasn't based on a preexisting storyline(and thus the plot points were already read/laid out), or that it wasn't stuff made up to stall for the "real story"(a BIG problem with the previous series) gave GT a refreshing feel since this time around, I knew I watching something all-new and that none of it is "filler nonsense".

That's another thing about GT; there is no filler material! Well, not the way we usually define it in the Dragonball context. Since the manga is already done and ended, it's impossible for any of this series to be "filler crap" or to paaaaaaaaaaadd things out for the manga to get further ahead. You want a filler-less Dragonball? Well, here it is! It's just bizarre that a common complaint of the series is that it's "too short". Well, that's (partly) because there's no filler. If there was, the series would've been at least twice as long. Would that have been better? Likewise, part of the reason that the other DB series are so long is because of filler. If they waited until the manga was finished, or if someone were to make a "no-filler" version of the series(take your pick), the whole thing would likely be only half as long as they are now(in this case, that would be better).

This leads to another point; GT has the best pacing and per-episode plot advancements of all three series. I don't actaully blame the other two series for slow pacing since they had to deal with timing things with the manga and yadda yadda yadda. But GT had a hugh advantage over the other series in this sense because it didn't have to worry about such nonsense. Really, I was surprised, even shocked, at how fast GT would go through its storyline and plot elements. The Evil Dragon storyline is the prefect example of this. I honestly expected we would deal with each of them for quite a few episodes(surely no fewer than 4 or 5!) but then many of them were defeated in the very episode they were introduced! Wow, that would never happen in DBZ, where taking only 4 or 5 episodes to get to another plot point is considered "fast". That made me happier and moreso excited to watch the show, since I could always count on getting somewhere with most of the episodes, as opposed to every 4 or 5 if I was lucky.

After all this talk about plot, I should be going into characters(and this won't be as detailed since this post is already long and my energy is spent). I still liked the old characters, and I liked the new ones. Pan was fun to watch, Baby was an interesting villain(my favorite of the GT series, since his backstory was the meatiest and all that), the Para Para brothers are funny as hell, Si Xing Long was a good last-minute addition to the ranks of good guys, and Yi Xing Long was quite the bastard, and it was satisfying to see him finally defeated.

I won't get into the ending, since most seems to agree that it was touching.

I know I'm probably setting myself up to be called "you crazy foo'!" and that most will probably continue to express nothing but negative thoughts on the series in question(while ignoring certain things that would show that some of those points are not that pronounced). I'm not trying to convert people, or tell them their opinion on the series is without merits, but this has been on my mind for some time, and I really feel the need to inject some positive thoughts on the series to counter all the endless negative stuff out there. Really, I'm surprised that positve comments on this series seems to be such a hard thing for so many.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:30 am

Mike D wrote:Gohan forgot how to fight

Gohan forgot how to fight back in Z.

Actually, did he ever know how to fight?

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