The Durability of Immortality

Kikoha Hater · Post by **Kikoha Hater** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:52 pm

Zarbon's what if story got me thinking, what are the limits of immortality does it even have one? Not that I'm taking any video games to face value, but it was odd that Zarbon died from an explosion of a planet despite having been granted immortality (like a bitch).

Garlic Jr. stated that he could have survived Kami's kamikaze, he was pummeled by Goku and Piccolo, and received a gruesome wound by Gohan (a hole in his chest). I mean god, can he even be knocked unconscious?

However, Vegeta says that having immortality as he was wouldn’t had been enough with his current power level, but may give him an advantage. Zarbon before that told Vegeta that he can’t beat Freeza with just immortality. I keep imaging Garlic Jr. getting completely vaporized by Freeza’s Death Ball.

Post by **Herms** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:08 pm

Which what-if are you thinking of for Zarbon? The one from Sparking! Neo? Because I don't remember Namek exploding in that one.

russ869 · Post by **russ869** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:31 pm

I assume what Vegeta meant by 'immortality is not enough to beat Freeza' was that, sure immortality would prevent him from being killed by Freeza, but Freeza was just so powerful that Vegeta could never kill him even if he kept pummeling away at him for an eternity.

Basically, immortality does not equal super strength, just inability to die.

SatoSky · Post by **SatoSky** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:35 pm

russ869 wrote:I assume what Vegeta meant by 'immortality is not enough to beat Freeza' was that, sure immortality would prevent him from being killed by Freeza, but Freeza was just so powerful that Vegeta could never kill him even if he kept pummeling away at him for an eternity.

Basically, immortality does not equal super strength, just inability to die.

True, but eventually Freeza will tire out or die of old age.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:40 pm

russ869 wrote:I assume what Vegeta meant by 'immortality is not enough to beat Freeza' was that, sure immortality would prevent him from being killed by Freeza, but Freeza was just so powerful that Vegeta could never kill him even if he kept pummeling away at him for an eternity.

Basically, immortality does not equal super strength, just inability to die.

Vegeta was banking on the zenkai. If he gets beaten beyond what should have killed him, he'll get an insane power-up.

Kikoha Hater · Post by **Kikoha Hater** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:45 pm

Yes from the Sparking! Neo, someone would have to check that for me since I resold the game a while ago (piece of shit game). I was aware of that russ869, infact Piccolo threnten to do exactly that to Garlic Jr.

SaiyaMel · Post by **SaiyaMel** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:25 am

If Vegeta became immortal..i think that over time through enough hard training and Zenkais - Vegeta should be able to get strong enough to beat Freeza.

Zarbon said he received immortality?

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:49 am

No, no, Zarbon obtained Eternal Beauty.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:15 am

Well, the way I see it, if you are granted immortality, you shouldn't be able to take damage, period. For example, how Garlic Junior was able to get a hole put in his chest... that shouldn't have happened. A wound like that, means some of your cells have died. Death = enough of your cells have died, so that you cannot sustain yourself anymore. If you are immune to death, technically NO part of you should be capable of dieing. You should technically be able to walk through ssj27 Gogeta-kuhan's omega final blaster cannon, with a power level no higher then Roshi's turtle; and just walk right through the beam, pausing only to yawn.

That's just the way I envision it being. Also, as far as being picked up and forced into a star, or a black hole or something, they technically shouldn't be able to pick you up, or force you to move, no matter how strong they are. I know some of you would be thinking "But, Findkenshi, that's invincibility, not immortality." But technically, to me, if you're trully immortal, you should be invincible as well, just by extension. No one should be able to do anything to negatively influence your physical body, against your will.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:03 am

No immortality just means you can't die. Doesn't mean you can't be hurt.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:26 am

Like I said, that's "just the way I see it."

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:50 am

That's kinda how it worked with Vandal Savage in Justice League. Nothing was able to damage him. And drawing a parallel to Vegeta vs Freeza here, it's not like Savage could beat Superman in a fight just because he's immortal. Supes just couldn't hurt him either.

Though I don't really agree with the not being able to force you to move thing, since that has nothing to do with immortality. But by all rights, once they tossed you in a star or whatever, you still shouldn't die. Probably not even get damaged, but that's not really certain. As you pointed out, it was evidenced that Garlic Jr could indeed be hurt. But the wound healed pretty much immediately.

Not to mention Vegeta was probably counting on getting stronger after near death to beat Freeza. That couldn't happen if he couldn't get near death.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:11 am

We just don't know what 'immortality' means in Dragon Ball. It can mean different things, and really needs specifications. It could mean:
-you take no damage.
-you do not age.
-you cannot die/are revived soon after death.
-you gain 'metaphorical' immortality by having your name remember by others.
Or any combination thereof. Garlic Jr. is the only character in DragonBall to have been granted 'immortality' and it's still unclear what that did to him.

When Vegeta and Freeza talk about being granted immortality, they don't know either - they're just guessing.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:00 pm

I don't think Invulnerability (The ability to never take harm) would be good for a Saiya-Jin, because then they would never receive the near death power up.

worldmonsters · Post by **worldmonsters** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:27 pm

desirecampbell wrote:We just don't know what 'immortality' means in Dragon Ball. It can mean different things, and really needs specifications. It could mean:
-you take no damage.
-you do not age.
-you cannot die/are revived soon after death.
-you gain 'metaphorical' immortality by having your name remember by others.
Or any combination thereof. Garlic Jr. is the only character in DragonBall to have been granted 'immortality' and it's still unclear what that did to him.

When Vegeta and Freeza talk about being granted immortality, they don't know either - they're just guessing.

I think you do not age would mean "Eternal Youth" which is what Piccolo Daimao wished for (and Slug). However, when you cannot die (aka immortality)... would that mean you also can't die of old age? That sounds kinda creepy

especially if you do still get older... your body will get older and older and older... you'd begin to look really really scary probably.

Did anyone see Garlic Jr. bleeding or anything like that... I don't recall. If not, he can't be harmed. Well he can be thrown to the other side of the room, but he wouldn't take any damage. But if so... wouldn't that mean people can rip off all his limbs... and then he'll wish he'd never wished for immortality

hahaha, it'd be a major bummer if you wish for immortality and all you got is "name remembered by others" XD

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:33 pm

To be honest, I don't think Toriyama himself was so sure about "immortality"

... I mean both Freeza and Vegeta wanted it but from what we saw, Freeza was pretty much the strongest thing around, didn't look like he was slowing down anytime soon, and could even survive in the vacuum of space so I think the only thing immortality in DB/Z can really offer is to stop aging completely but not so much a boost of power of immunity from death. Er, Vegeta IMO just wanted something (anything) to have a chance against Freeza but wouldn't immortality take away the Saiyan near-death thing?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:52 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:but wouldn't immortality take away the Saiyan near-death thing?

No, that's based on his DNA or cells and whatnot. Since all his other bodily processes would continue if he became immortal (except for the degeneration of DNA in cell division), why wouldn't his zenkai.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:03 pm

Here is what Vegeta should have wished for:

"Porunga, please, I wish to be the strongest fighter in the universe, no matter what comes in my way, I will always be stronger."

Now that's a good wish, cause even when Buu surfaced, Vegeta would instantly power up to be far stronger than him.

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:09 pm

Going by Garlic Jr., the DBZ version of immortality is you can't die, either from attacks or aging or whatever. Kaim-sama declared the Dead Zone to be a perfect fate because it's a hellish place he couldn't escape from. That seemed to be what Vegeta and Nappa were going for too.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:17 pm

omegacwa wrote:Here is what Vegeta should have wished for:

"Porunga, please, I wish to be the strongest fighter in the universe, no matter what comes in my way, I will always be stronger."

Now that's a good wish, cause even when Buu surfaced, Vegeta would instantly power up to be far stronger than him.

The dragon could not grant that wish. It exceeds the powers of its creator.

Kanzenshuu

The Durability of Immortality

The Durability of Immortality

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