Kanzenshuu

As of Super Hero, does Goku still have problems using UI? He used it just fine vs Gohan, but he didn’t push him in the ways Granolah and Gas did.

DanielSSJ wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2026 2:34 pm I wouldn't call a quarter "almost half". But yeah, considering base Goku was doing fine against him, I could afford to drop him a bit. Around 4 billion, give or take.

My bad, I meant to say almost half of Dabura.

In Gas’ defense, SSJB Goku was getting hurt even when he blocked the attacks.

I’m not sure if Jiren could do much here. Moro tanked a blast from SSJBE Vegeta. But then that would imply 73 Moro could fight Granolah, which I’m not so sure of.

Can SSJBE Vegeta (Vs Granolah) beat 73 Moro? No magic or ...

There's a point to be made about SSJBE Vegeta surpassing Broly since Whis says he doesn't know anyone in the universe stronger than Goku and Vegeta, but there's also that weird comment about even UI Goku still being weaker than Broly made around the same time.

Good old SSJB stands no chance. They ...

I think Yakon being almost half of SSJ Goku’s power is way too much. Is this based on the Kili readings? Because Dabura claimed to be over 3000 Kilis.

But since you mentioned it, Daima throws all this logic in the bin. The characters are as strong as they're needed to be and "they trained" is enough of an excuse.
Daima follows the same logic as Goku introducing Super Saiyan 3. The Saiyans did some intense training of some kind in the lead-up ...

I like Grade 1 SSJs capping out at 2-3x Namek Goku. If Future Gohan was about half of Future 17's power and SSJ Vegeta is considered a rival to Future 18 (Trunks thinks Vegeta = 18 and didn't notice Present > Future until later). That means Goku getting 1.5x to 2x stronger in the 3 years is a pretty ...

A different status quo? The status quo hasn't changed since the Androids/Cell, my guy.


I was just pointing out how SSJ3 Goku is top dog. That's a different power hierarchy from the one in the Boo Saga, regardless of whether Goku got stronger or Gohan got weaker. I wasn't making a comment on ...

It’s not that Goku has to be exactly as strong, but that there was originally such a big difference between his strength and Gohan’s that the narrative doesn’t imply Goku made such a huge leap in power at his first fight against Beerus. This Goku’s ranking among the Saiyans was implied since he ...

There's a lot of beating around the bush with these arguments. Yeah, Goku trains a lot, and Toriyama doesn't care about power scaling or how strong characters should be, but Goku has to be exactly the same as his Boo Saga level because... It would be inconsistent? Even though we're saying Toriyama ...

Doesn't matter. That's a pedantic argument.

Beerus assessed base Goku and thought he didn't measure up to Frieza; that much is clear-cut, and I don't really care if people still have a problem with it. If he's still not stronger than Frieza by the time of the movie, there's more than sufficient ...

I don’t think there is anything that directly suggests there is a big difference in Goku’s same forms between his fight against Boo and Beerus. Most of this notion derives from the movie and anime placing Goku above Gohan and Gotenks, but this is something implied even during the Boo arc anime and ...

I think the only way to make sense of it is accepting Gohan being the strongest is, like the Granny arc said about being the strongest, fleeting. It's a plant that needs to be watered, it's not a magic pill that lasts forever. And Gohan is known for not doing that, in Z, in GT, in DBS... the guy ...

Ehh, you've got this backwards. BoG Goku isn't really implied to have gotten stronger than Buu Goku in any meaningful way prior to his God boost, especially given Beerus's comments. If SS3 Goku is stronger than Gohan, it's actually way more likely that Gohan would have gotten weaker by then ...

In that case, what about Base Goku (Super Hero) vs. SS1 Goku (Cell Games)?


Could go either way. Goku not being KO’d by Rumsshi’s scream while the Kaioshin were.

I think the biggest power up Goku has in the manga happens even before the series starts, when he’s already reclaimed his title as ...

Kami finger flicks Goku off of his fight with Piccolo Daimao. The split was never even. We tend to think the reunion is 2x because it's convenient, but it's not something flat out spelled in the manga.

But that's my argument...
That this is spelling it out in the manga and that there's no ...

Nappa is a really weird case because he visibly struggles with power levels below 3k and then fights evenly with a power of 8k. He effectively shows two different levels of power, even if he can't hide his power level.


It's simple and straightforward, I think the line is there for a reason and if ...

Hugo Boss wrote: Thu May 07, 2026 12:14 pm Base Goku (Super Hero) vs. Perfect Cell

In the anime, Goku breathes Cell away.

In the manga it's a closer fight, but Cell wins still.

I always assumed Goku ends Z being as strong as Buu since he fights its reencarnation, but it's not really clear how strong Uub is.

With that in mind, even if Uub isn't that strong just yet, SS2 tier in base seems legit.


Agreed, and the smoking gun is that Goku says Oob is amazing as expected ...

The Gotenks one is just an extended transformation.

I think Vegeta vs Broly and Daima Goku are the only real examples we have of this. Could the Saiyans have used this in the Budokai? I have no idea.