Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
dbgtFO
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7890
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:06 am

ThunderPX wrote:Also, for some reason in the Buu arc, Piccolo randomly reverts to this speech style when he yells "Away from me, man! Piccolo is green!"
That must be the Viz volume corresponding to volume 36 right? It sounds like something he would say, when that News lady tries to interview him.

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11378
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:55 am

dbgtFO wrote:
ThunderPX wrote:Also, for some reason in the Buu arc, Piccolo randomly reverts to this speech style when he yells "Away from me, man! Piccolo is green!"
That must be the Viz volume corresponding to volume 36 right? It sounds like something he would say, when that News lady tries to interview him.
Don't feel like checking the volume, but it doesn't take place during that interview segment, its when the Budokai attendant is checking on the fighters who passed the prelims before the tournament starts up. The guy asks if he can help him cause he looks green, and Piccolo goes all "Let that child alone" on him. lol
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
dbgtFO
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7890
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:00 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
ThunderPX wrote:Also, for some reason in the Buu arc, Piccolo randomly reverts to this speech style when he yells "Away from me, man! Piccolo is green!"
That must be the Viz volume corresponding to volume 36 right? It sounds like something he would say, when that News lady tries to interview him.
Don't feel like checking the volume, but it doesn't take place during that interview segment, its when the Budokai attendant is checking on the fighters who passed the prelims before the tournament starts up. The guy asks if he can help him cause he looks green, and Piccolo goes all "Let that child alone" on him. lol
That's Volume 36/20, it takes place one page after The news lady tries to interview the Z Squad. I completely forgot that Piccolo actually doesn't talk to the News Lady.

NeoKING
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:55 pm

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by NeoKING » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:09 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Herms wrote:Talking to Shen some more
Org: Don’t tell me you’ve come to get rid of me…
Viz: Has a god left his heaven to seek my destruction?
Is it wrong that I vastly prefer the Viz version and am disappointed that's not the original line?
There's nothing wrong with preferring something over its original counterpart.

Cipher
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6335
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Nagano
Contact:

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Cipher » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:07 pm

Super Sonic wrote:Tokyopop did something similar. Have Rayearth vol. 3 with me now and it mentions a translator and English adaptation. I'm guessing it's just how manga is done or something.
That's (likely) because translating does not equate to writing ability. It takes one person to translate, and another to work it into natural, character-fitting English dialogue. How good a job they do with that may vary, but that's the basic idea.

Otherwise you end up with the comic book equivalent of Steve Simmons' subtitles. I love them to bits, but they get away with being very stiff and literal because we can hear the voice actor's intonation at the same time. It works. Those translations alone, in print, would not.

User avatar
Ashura
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 763
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:05 pm

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Ashura » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:15 pm

The DBZ subtitles are more literal than most. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but it's different than I prefer... even though at this point I can watch the show and mentally reword it in a manner that sounds like the character to me if that makes sense? Some people like it, others don't.

Even in anime, though, there is (or used to be when people had money) an editor who goes through and cleans up the script depending on translation ability. It's usually the person who times the script, or again, at least it used to be.

There's a few translators who are good at both; that is, translation and writing the dialogue naturally. Some are even better at writing dialogue naturally to cover up their (lack of) skill, and then there are others who are great translators but not great writers.
My favorite movie henchman is Sancho.

Follow my stupid crap on Twitter. Please note, I do not have time to reply to any PMs about color correction methods anymore; sorry about that.

[ Hoyoyo! Please pick up our Dr. Slump DVD! ]

User avatar
TheGreatness25
I Live Here
Posts: 4959
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:36 am

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:30 pm

Wondering about this myself, was I.

By the way, really nice explanation. How do you know all of this stuff?! lol

User avatar
Attitudefan
I Live Here
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Attitudefan » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:14 am

"WHAT SAY YOU!?!"
Hated that line! I always thought it was a screw up, it is just awkward. Now I don't know if that's even Elizabethan but it doesn't really sound like it.

The Heavens stuff is really fitting as he's a "demon" related to God; those parts are written well, unlike "what say you... etc."
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

User avatar
Rocketman
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10799
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 pm

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Rocketman » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:39 am

Attitudefan wrote:"WHAT SAY YOU!?!"
Hated that line! I always thought it was a screw up, it is just awkward. Now I don't know if that's even Elizabethan but it doesn't really sound like it.
Elizabethan, I dunno, but it was common in older English. It's basically direct from the German, "Was sagt dich?"

User avatar
Attitudefan
I Live Here
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Attitudefan » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:50 am

Rocketman wrote:
Attitudefan wrote:"WHAT SAY YOU!?!"
Hated that line! I always thought it was a screw up, it is just awkward. Now I don't know if that's even Elizabethan but it doesn't really sound like it.
Elizabethan, I dunno, but it was common in older English. It's basically direct from the German, "Was sagt dich?"
Hmm, you're talking 18th and 19th century dialogue then? I don't think they would talk like that but then your German reference is convincing they probably did.

But what I found out it is around Shakespearean times. What an odd thing to give Piccolo, in a DBZ manga of all things...
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Michsi » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:57 am

What say you? sound more like asking for someone's oppinion rather than a threat. Same as in german, but I believe the correct line is "Was sagst du"? but yeah the word order is like that.

I think I read somewhere once about how people who try to recreate old english always use this wod order and that in reality people didn't speak like that hundreds of years ago, or something like that.

User avatar
BobZ
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 362
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:20 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria [Land of Confusion]

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by BobZ » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:14 am

You know, for a moment there, when I started reading the manga, I thought that Piccolo would speak like that during the whole time and I was worried.
But it seems that he only does it for a chapter or so and only accasionaly goes back to it.
I'm glad that he speaks normally most of the time. :)

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Michsi » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:16 am

BobZ wrote:You know, for a moment there, when I started reading the manga, I thought that Piccolo would speak like that during the whole time and I was worried.
But it seems that he only does it for a chapter or so and only accasionaly goes back to it.
I'm glad that he speaks normally most of the time. :)
He does? I only have the Piccolo Saga and the Saiyan Saga from Viz. Does it change later on?

User avatar
BobZ
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 362
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:20 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria [Land of Confusion]

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by BobZ » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:22 am

Well, I currently own everything from Dragon Ball VizBIG 1-4 and had to skip to DBZ Vol. 1, because the final Dragon Ball Volume is currently unavailible. I've only noticed Piccolo speaking like that in the first chapters of DBZ when he meets with Raditz basically. And a few odd lines here and there, but nothing too shocking. I've read up to Gohan's training for the battle with the Saiyans so far and Piccolo seems to behave as normal. :)

User avatar
kaialone
Regular
Posts: 659
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:56 am

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by kaialone » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:55 am

Rocketman wrote:
Attitudefan wrote:"WHAT SAY YOU!?!"
Hated that line! I always thought it was a screw up, it is just awkward. Now I don't know if that's even Elizabethan but it doesn't really sound like it.
Elizabethan, I dunno, but it was common in older English. It's basically direct from the German, "Was sagt dich?"
I think its "Was sagst du?"
-凯

User avatar
dbgtFO
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7890
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:18 am

kaialone wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
Attitudefan wrote:"WHAT SAY YOU!?!"
Hated that line! I always thought it was a screw up, it is just awkward. Now I don't know if that's even Elizabethan but it doesn't really sound like it.
Elizabethan, I dunno, but it was common in older English. It's basically direct from the German, "Was sagt dich?"
I think its "Was sagst du?"
Yeah, "Was sagst dich" would be grammatically incorrect, since "dich" is used, when it's the object(Akkusativobjekt).

Since the english language doesn't differentiate between "you", when it's the subject and "you", when it's the object, here's another example.

2nd person singular:
"Was sagst dich?"

The equvalent in 3rd person singular:
"Was sagt ihn?"

Which in english would be:
"What say him?"

I hope this illustrates why "Was sagst dich" is wrong.

@Topic, Piccolo's quotes just sound like somebody is trying too much.

User avatar
Herms
Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
Posts: 10550
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Jupiter
Contact:

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Herms » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:40 am

Eddie wrote:^ Viz actually completely acknowledges that there Dragon Ball is an adaptation. In volume 16 (The one with this line) Mari Morimoto is credited with the translation. There's also a credit given for the English adaptation, which was done by Gerard Jones.
As has been noted, this is pretty much standard practice to ensure that translations sound as natural in English as possible. While it can lead to weird deviations from the original lines at times, I think on the whole it's a sound system that works pretty well. Here's an interview with Gerard Jones where he explains his role:
PC: Barb wants to know: "How much would you say you ADAPT and how much do you REWRITE?" In which adaptation is tinkering with sentence structure and rewriting is more like adding a whole new gag in (lawn chairs? veritable smorgasbord?)

GJ: Barb asks a good question. My official title is "rewriter." But...I try to be more of an adapter. My ideal is to convey the original author's intent and style. I want to contribute that and get out of the way. But: there are times that I just couldn't do that without leaving the original incomprehensible. Or adding explanatory footnotes, which Viz very much tries to avoid. It depends more on the specific reference or gag in question.
Also, why I've never found confirmation of this, rumor has it that Piccolo's speech in Viz was specifically the work of editor Trish Ledoux, so if that's true it really didn't have anything to do with the translator/adapter system. Jason Thompson was Viz's editor for DB/Z for most of it's run, and he summarizes his job like this (emphasis mine):
When people come to my house and ask "Why do you have an entire bookshelf full of Yu-Gi-Oh! graphic novels?" I answer, "Because I li... I mean, because I edited that manga." The next question is, "What does a manga editor do?" and the answer to that is, a lot of little things. American manga editors aren't anything like manga editors in Japan (or OEL/original comic editors in America), who have firsthand creative control over their titles, and are often de facto collaborators with the artist. Instead, they do many things: proofreading, writing things like back-cover text and ad copy, and recommending new titles for translation. Most of all, though, they are (usually) the final arbiter on translation decisions. Name spellings, typos, censorship, the particular phrasing of a particular line... the editor is involved in all of this, and if something goes wrong, they're the ones to send angry e-mails to.
So hopefully that gives some insight into this whole process.
Michsi wrote:Especially since I have other volumes in german where he speaks rather bluntly and sometimes down right crudely.
Yeah, that's pretty much how he talks in Japanese, and it really messes with his character to instead have him talk in an elaborate, fanciful way, even if some of the lines he says like that are near (though personally I think whoever wrote them was trying too hard to sound cool).
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

User avatar
Timo
Regular
Posts: 646
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 2:10 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Timo » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:33 pm

"Was sagst du?" is correct. If your dialog partner is a superior, unknown or you have a lot of respect for him it would be "Was sagen Sie?". Furthermore, when the setting is somewhat archaic (till the 20th century) it's "Was sagt Ihr?"

BTW. 3rd person would be "Was sagt er/sie/es" (male/female/thing).

User avatar
Rocketman
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10799
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 pm

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by Rocketman » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:09 pm

My bad, it's been a long time since my last German class.

G1Ravage
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:21 am
Location: USA

Re: Piccolo's lines in Dragon Ball Z VizBig Edition

Post by G1Ravage » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:52 am

I personally liked the way they had Piccolo "speaking" in the manga. During the early days of the Viz manga, I always imagined Piccolo speaking in Scott McNeil's voice, and those lines sounded damn awesome coming from his imaginary mouth.

I also noticed that oddity on the back cover of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, where the colored image on the cover has Piccolo speaking one way, but the actual black and white page in the book is cropped differently and has a completely different translation (while still saying the exact same thing, basically).

Post Reply