Dragonball & YouTube

Magica · Post by **Magica** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:17 pm

What are your views on Dragonball/Z/GT episodes and movies being hosted on YouTube? Do you think it should be allowed? Should you feel bad reporting profiles to Funimation that host them when they're not supposed to? What are your opinions?

GI_Judd2287 · Post by **GI_Judd2287** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:22 pm

Is it illegal? Yes. Is it stealing? Sure. It's pretty bad, but it's not like they're making profit off of it. I don't see why someone would report it to Funimation and be a snitch. It's not like it affects them personally.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:26 pm

Definately not. FUNi and Toei work hard to provide us DVDs for both the English and Japanese versions (Toei with just the JP ones). It's really pathetic to see that people actually host up episodes from DVDs that can cost them about as high as $16.99 if purchased from Best Buy.

I can understand if they live in a place where these DVDs aren't available, but that's what importing is also for.

Although I do laugh at the people who actually upload those cruddy, low quality, VHS fansubs. You can hardly even see a thing through YouTube's compression methods.

Even more laughable when they use TV rips. That itself screams "I AM CHEAP."

Small clips are fine, though. They're not an entire episode and sometimes it's nice to be able to directly watch a particularly good scene for memory's sake without searching for the episode.

But yeah, FUNi should be informed, as should YouTube. They are basically violating the rules.

b_boult · Post by **b_boult** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:56 pm

It certainly isn't great to go and download copyrighted material but there is a general ethos on this board that's rather annoying in which some of you seem to care far too much. It's a cartoon, and before you post back, just remember that.

GI_Judd2287 · Post by **GI_Judd2287** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:58 pm

Of course we care a little too much... we're fans. This is a fan website and a fan message board. What's wrong with that?

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:08 pm

Youtube rules. At least til bitches snitch.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:39 pm

b_boult wrote:It's a cartoon, and before you post back, just remember that.

That may be, but the work is still someone's property and career(aka what they use to feed themselves with), and they aren't seeing a dime when people obtain it through illegal means. Doesn't matter what the material is, it's still stealing. Think about it this way, just say you had written a short fantasy story that you had worked really hard on and got published. However, most people were reading it by illegally downloading it. Then when there is anger at this, someone says, "Well before you complain, remember it's just a miniscule fantasy story by some insignificant, unknown author." How would you feel?

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:52 pm

I know poor Toei. I hear they are on the verge of bankruptsy.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:55 pm

Victator Supreme wrote:I know poor Toei. I hear they are on the verge of bankruptsy.

Ya I was waiting for a smart-aleck reply like this.

My point was, it doesn't matter even if a company is big, it's still stealing. By the way, large companies employ a lot of people at the lower end of things who aren't "rolling in dough". Who do rely on their weekly paycheck to feed their families. Maybe you ought to go off and rethink things like that before playing Mr. "Superior Comedian".

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:32 pm

I really don't care. Toei isn't going to fire people because somebody watched Plan to eradicate the saiyans on Youtube. Their are more importent things going on in the world than people downloading a children's cartoon show.

This is about the time somebody will attemot to equate downloading to stealing a stereo or some other dumb shit.

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:59 pm

No matter how you twist and turn it, illegal is illegal and can't be justified. Problem with the DB legacy though is that due to it's length, it's a pretty costly series to get. Which makes fansubs or DVD rips all the more appealing.

Personally though I don't mind getting fansubs (or watching stuff on youtube) as long as you eventually buy whatever you saw for free. (Let's call it making up for a crime then?)

Either way, I like my anime and manga, so I make sure I make a regular donation to the industry so that my favourite mangaka get some reward for their work.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:10 pm

Victator Supreme wrote:I really don't care. Toei isn't going to fire people because somebody watched Plan to eradicate the saiyans on Youtube. Their are more importent things going on in the world than people downloading a children's cartoon show.

You can't garauntee that. If just say there was a major recession in Japan, and that happened back in the 90's already, and animation companies were suffering. The fact that they're also losing money due to poor sales because people are just downloading stuff off the net would help contribute to downsizing and layoffs. Trust me, I see it time and again, anime fans will find any excuse to justify not to having to part with their precious fansubs and buy legit DVDs. So I can assure you that an animation company could be losing enough sales for it to affect them.

And using "there are more important things in the world than such and such" is a classic "strawman" argument. So they're pointless and insignificant to use in a debate. Basically, a "cop-out" line.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:15 pm

If I truly enjoy something, I make a point to buy it. For various reasons, from supporting the company to make more, to I want a hard copy for myself.

The problem with most people is they try to equate legallity with morality which doesn't really work. Their is something of a moral argument against downloading. But its not the "OMG its stealing" argument.

I think the people who crank my tractor are the douches who get up in arms about people downloading stuff that is not even commercially available in this country. Thats just asinine.

You can't garauntee that. If just say there was a major recession in Japan, and that happened back in the 90's already, and animation companies were suffering. The fact that they're also losing money due to poor sales because people are just downloading stuff off the net would help contribute to downsizing and layoffs. Trust me, I see it time and again, anime fans will find any excuse to justify not to having to part with their precious fansubs and buy legit DVDs. So I can assure you that an animation company could be losing enough sales for it to affect them.

And using "there are more important things in the world than such and such" is a classic "strawman" argument. So they're pointless and insignificant to use in a debate. Basically, a "cop-out" line.

If they are losing sales its not because people are downloading episodes of one of the most popular animated series in the world.

jwimz · Post by **jwimz** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:27 pm

It is illegal to show it on youtube, will it stop? Probably not. Youtube doesn't own the rights to broadcast the show and therefore is illegal to watch it there. But is it their fault that it is on their site, yes! But I doubt that they will spend the manpower to go through all of their videos to pull down what is illegal, unless asked to by some company. I don't really care about "Is Toei losing money" part...yes they are just from the sheer fact that people get to watch it free of charge, but not enough that they will ask online video websites to clear out all of the episodes.

Kind of off topic but what is the legality of taking footage from the show and repackaging it into an AMV? Is it because we own the footage, therefore we can do with it what we wish, as long as we don't profit from it?

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:39 pm

don't really care about "Is Toei losing money" part...yes they are just from the sheer fact that people get to watch it free of charge, but not enough that they will ask online video websites to clear out all of the episodes.

You're making the false assumption that the people who watch on Youtube are going to buy the dvds, which is not true. I am of the belief that downloading helps companies. Oh I'm sure people will argue this isn't true, but I believe it is.

I certainly know in my case that downloading is the reason I started buying comics again. Its also lead to me buying dvds of shows I otherwise would not of spent a dime on. I know I'm not the only person this has happened to.

jwimz · Post by **jwimz** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:41 pm

Victator Supreme wrote:You're making the false assumption that the people who watch on Youtube are going to buy the dvds, which is not true.

lol...you are assuming that is why I'm saying. No, what I'm saying is that Youtube nor the viewers on youtube didn't pay to broadcast/watch that footage therefore, Toei is losing money because of that.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:43 pm

No that is exactly what you are doing.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:45 pm

Oh crap - let's end this quickly:

1. It is against the YouTube 'terms of service' to upload anything you don't own the copyright for.

2. It is illegal in many countries (including the United States) to download copyrighted material.

3. Whether or not it is moral to download such material is not something that can be stated simply. Morality is personal, everyone's morals are different.

I don't think EX wants to discuss the morality of fansubs on this board. He's made his position clear already. If he states he would allow it - I'd happily join the discussion - but until EX says so, I think we should ix-nay on the 'tube-yay.

jwimz · Post by **jwimz** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:45 pm

Cartoon Network paid to air DBZ, right? Toei is getting paid for that. Youtube didn't pay to air DBZ, right? Toei isn't getting money from that, therefore they are loseing money from it.

I'm not talking about buying freaking DVDs!

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:48 pm

To lose the money they would of had to of had it in the first place. They were not going to get that money to begin with. In any case it would be Funimation taking a hit, since Toei licensed the rights long ago.

1. It is against the YouTube 'terms of service' to upload anything you don't own the copyright for.

2. It is illegal in many countries (including the United States) to download copyrighted material.

3. Whether or not it is moral to download such material is not something that can be stated simply. Morality is personal, everyone's morals are different.

Best post in this thread.

Kanzenshuu

Dragonball & YouTube

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