Kaioushin's Realm?

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:24 pm

How far is Kaioushin-sama sacred land away from Earth?

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:35 pm

Another dimension, I think.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:40 pm

It's a dimension without shrimp, but yeah, it's referred to in the Japanese version as being its own separate realm.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:15 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:It's a dimension without shrimp, but yeah, it's referred to in the Japanese version as being its own separate realm.

Better than the dimension with nothing but shrimp. I grew tired of that one quickly.

-Corey

Post by **Herms** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:23 pm

Daizenshuu 4 has a picture of the Dragon Ball cosmos drawn by Toriyama, and in it the Kaioushin realm is shown as being completely seperate from the rest of the cosmos. Basically, the afterlife and four galaxies of the living realm are all shown to be part of this giant sphere. Seperate from that giant sphere is the Kaioushin realm, shown as being another, smaller sphere that rotates around the larger one like a moon.

I don't know if that counts as another dimension, or if it's called such, but it's sure a long ways from anything else. It's mentioned that the only way to get there and back is through teleportation.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:07 pm

Are the only times anyone was seen teleporting there either via Kaioshin teleportation or from another part of the afterlife? I.E, Goku only went there after returning to Enma's; according to the anime, Kid Buu stopped at Dai Kaio's planet before finding Kaioshin's place, and all other instances of going there were by Kaioshin himself teleporting people??
Getting out, though, is apparently easier... but it is apparently too far to teleport to Neo Namek (but Earth is doable?) using Shunkaniido/instant movement, anyway... Kaioshin can apparently go wherever he wants.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:15 pm

Herms wrote:Daizenshuu 4 has a picture of the Dragon Ball cosmos drawn by Toriyama, and in it the Kaioushin realm is shown as being completely seperate from the rest of the cosmos. Basically, the afterlife and four galaxies of the living realm are all shown to be part of this giant sphere. Seperate from that giant sphere is the Kaioushin realm, shown as being another, smaller sphere that rotates around the larger one like a moon.

That sounds really cool. I may buy the books one day, after all. I mean, even if I can't read a darn word they say; I'm sure all the pictures alone would be nice to see.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:20 pm

FindKenshi wrote:That sounds really cool. I may buy the books one day, after all. I mean, even if I can't read a darn word they say; I'm sure all the pictures alone would be nice to see.

I'll say this: I can't read 90% of the books (for now), but they're amazing to have. As my verbal skills get better, I'll be working on my written, but to me it's awesome to have these massive books with nearly everything I could want to know (granted, they're not canon ;p).

I just need the 3 softcovers.

-Corey

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:27 pm

The Kaioshin realm (referred to as Kaioshin Kai) is a dimension that has a single planet surrounded by suns and pink atmosphere, encased in a bubble that orbits the rice-bowl of the rest of creation.

Check these images:
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/Tenka ... mology.jpg
http://web.archive.org/web/200406030744 ... t=universe

And I made a (fairly decent) recreation a year-or-so ago:
http://dbz-rpg.com/index.php?page=add_7

Humpski · Post by **Humpski** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:23 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
Conan the SSJ wrote:It's a dimension without shrimp, but yeah, it's referred to in the Japanese version as being its own separate realm.
Better than the dimension with nothing but shrimp. I grew tired of that one quickly.

-Corey

*Nods to fellow Buffy fans*

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:39 am

Wow, Thank you all.
Kaioushin's sacred land is in another dimension!
I asked the question because when Goku was transforming into Super Saiya-jin 3 the Kaioushin's were astonished that his power could be felt and reached that far.
Goku got powaa!

Suupaa Gohan 2 · Post by **Suupaa Gohan 2** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:48 am

Toriyama Boss wrote: Goku got powaa!

That does indeed become the main theme of the series, particularly in its latter stages.

Anyways this was a question I'd always had myself, as well as various other Kaiohshin related subjects, but I can't remember them all (there were many and most were detailed) off the top of my head. The Buu Saga had some good points, but in my opinion it left a lot to be desired as far as...well, mostly answers to a lot of the plotlines introduced but never really explored in depth (HAI GUISE THIS IS DOUBLER HE RULEZ the DEMON REALMZ AND BABIDI SOMEHOW GOTS'D HIM UNDER MIND CONTROLZ BUT HE'S NOTHING MORE THAN A PLOT DEVICE SINCE ONCE HIS USE RUNZ OUT WE FORGET WE EVER MENTIONED THIS DEMON REALMZ AND HOPE YOU FORGET AND NEVER QUESTION IT EITHER KTHXBAI), which is something that always bugged me to no end about it.

Either way, I also thank those who shed some light on the location of Kaiohshinkai.

Post by **Herms** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:12 am

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:
Toriyama Boss wrote: Goku got powaa!
That does indeed become the main theme of the series, particularly in its latter stages.

Anyways this was a question I'd always had myself, as well as various other Kaiohshin related subjects, but I can't remember them all (there were many and most were detailed) off the top of my head. The Buu Saga had some good points, but in my opinion it left a lot to be desired as far as...well, mostly answers to a lot of the plotlines introduced but never really explored in depth (HAI GUISE THIS IS DOUBLER HE RULEZ the DEMON REALMZ AND BABIDI SOMEHOW GOTS'D HIM UNDER MIND CONTROLZ BUT HE'S NOTHING MORE THAN A PLOT DEVICE SINCE ONCE HIS USE RUNZ OUT WE FORGET WE EVER MENTIONED THIS DEMON REALMZ AND HOPE YOU FORGET AND NEVER QUESTION IT EITHER KTHXBAI), which is something that always bugged me to no end about it.

Well, to be fair Toriyama did the same thing throughout the course of the series. I mean, we have no real background information on Freeza what so ever. We don't know how he got into his position, how he got to be so powerful, what his race his, where he's from, etc. We also don't have any information on how the Room of Time and Spirits was formed, or what the story is on its dimension. We don't know why Lunch's personality changes occur, why Ginyu can change bodies, or why Blue has telekinesis. We don't know what causes Saiyans to become Super Saiyans, why they exist, how it started, or anything. We know next to nothing about the history of the Dragon Ball earth, or it's universe. Toriyama never really went much in depth on anything, from start to finish.

Daizenshuu 7 does include a lot of additional information on the Demon World though.

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:56 am

Good job Herms!

Suupaa Gohan 2 · Post by **Suupaa Gohan 2** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:24 am

Herms wrote:Well, to be fair Toriyama did the same thing throughout the course of the series. I mean, we have no real background information on Freeza what so ever. We don't know how he got into his position, how he got to be so powerful, what his race his, where he's from, etc. We also don't have any information on how the Room of Time and Spirits was formed, or what the story is on its dimension. We don't know why Lunch's personality changes occur, why Ginyu can change bodies, or why Blue has telekinesis. We don't know what causes Saiyans to become Super Saiyans, why they exist, how it started, or anything. We know next to nothing about the history of the Dragon Ball earth, or it's universe. Toriyama never really went much in depth on anything, from start to finish.

Eh, true enough, I suppose, but it never seemed to get to me quite the way it did during the Buu Saga. The rest of the series got by without a whole lot of character development just by being what it is - I always felt that for a large part of the Buu Saga Toriyama-Sensei's heart just wasn't in it, not that I blame him after that long of still working on a series he wanted to finish for a while. I mean, one of the key points of the mid Z arcs was that being a Super Saiyajin required a great emotional trauma...and suddenly...a seven and eight year old kid can just...do it...just because...? I don't know. I suppose he never was the greatest when it came to developing characters or backstories as he was a storyteller in general, but the Buu Saga always seemed to bug me more than any other point in the series when it came to that stuff.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:18 pm

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:I suppose he never was the greatest when it came to developing characters or backstories as he was a storyteller in general, but the Buu Saga always seemed to bug me more than any other point in the series when it came to that stuff.

I know what ya' mean. In fact, as far back as original DragonBall, I found that the anime did a better job at crafting what little back-story Tien had beyond Toriyama's obedient sociopath-seeming Crane bitch at the 22nd Budokai. We saw flashbacks to his training under both Crane and Tao Pai Pai, how that training led to the ruthlessness in other tournaments where he broke other challengers' legs, and ultimately how he and Chaozu ended up using their master's childhood pet in their scams while roaming the world. Wasn't as much depth as someone like Sasuke from Naruto, but it was something and we can say the DB anime did try to give us more insight on that fantastic character.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:50 am

I couldn't help but notice, that the Ma-Kai (the universe in which Dabura is from) is not mentioned anywhere in those images (except for the extremly awesome recreation that desirecampbell made.) At the end of this thread, it seemed we established that the "Hell" under Snake Way is actually not the "Ma-Kai" that Dabura came from.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:35 pm

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:
Toriyama Boss wrote: Goku got powaa!
That does indeed become the main theme of the series, particularly in its latter stages.

Anyways this was a question I'd always had myself, as well as various other Kaiohshin related subjects, but I can't remember them all (there were many and most were detailed) off the top of my head. The Buu Saga had some good points, but in my opinion it left a lot to be desired as far as...well, mostly answers to a lot of the plotlines introduced but never really explored in depth (HAI GUISE THIS IS DOUBLER HE RULEZ the DEMON REALMZ AND BABIDI SOMEHOW GOTS'D HIM UNDER MIND CONTROLZ BUT HE'S NOTHING MORE THAN A PLOT DEVICE SINCE ONCE HIS USE RUNZ OUT WE FORGET WE EVER MENTIONED THIS DEMON REALMZ AND HOPE YOU FORGET AND NEVER QUESTION IT EITHER KTHXBAI), which is something that always bugged me to no end about it.

Either way, I also thank those who shed some light on the location of Kaiohshinkai.

Why would it be mentioned again? They kinda had much bigger problems to deal with.

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:51 am

Thanks guys for helping me out with Kaioushin's realm, so it is in another dimension! And thanks to Herms for posting this info from the Daizenshuu 7 about the Kaioushin Realm (p.45), it says that the Kaioushin Realm is 1/10th the size as the rest of the cosmos (which it orbits).

So, planet Namek is how many Lightyears away from Earth again?

Suupaa Gohan 2 · Post by **Suupaa Gohan 2** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:08 pm

Victator Supreme wrote:Why would it be mentioned again? They kinda had much bigger problems to deal with.

That's my point. There were always 'bigger problems to deal with' in DBZ than the random plotlines they'd bring up...which is why they should have just never been brought up in the first place. DBZ was awful for any real 'development' like that.

As I see it, Doubler was just some super strong dude that Babidi had as a henchman. Making him 'King of the Demon Realm' only served as a one-shot comment to enhance how powerful he seemed...but that was rather pointless when he was only in a minor fight before Buu became the real problem. So I don't see why we had to be told he was the king of this never-before-mentioned Demon Realm just to enhance how terrifying he was when...he wasn't really even a focal villain.

That made more sense in my head, but either way, that's how I feel about it. *shrug*

Kanzenshuu

Kaioushin's Realm?

Kaioushin's Realm?

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