Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
The fact that she managed to become stronger than King Chappa (a guy Jackie Chun and Yamcha were worried about Goku facing at the 22nd Budokai, and gotten a lot stronger since) while having a guy who even weaker than 21st Budokai Muten Roshi as a teacher in the span of just 6 years is a good indicator that she could become a fairly strong Z-Warrior under the right circumstances... or at very least more relevant than Chiaotzu. Roshi and the Z-Warriors in the 23rd Budokai all agreed she was quite strong, but could she actually be accepted to receive the same special training they have and maybe having greater control over her ki learning more advanced techniques like Bukujutsu, Kamehameha, and maybe even developing her own like the Power Slugger?
Also, how would her overall character be handled? Would she actually receive character development and not be pushed to the sidelines, or would she eventually just fall out of relevance completely like Yamcha? At any rate, maybe Toei would not blow that one aspect of her character out of proportion which seems to have taken a turn for the worse in Super. The ending for the latest episode was heart-wrenching instead of funny and made me really feel for Goku .
Even as far as her gimmick in Extreme Butoden, it was a sign for the beginning of the end for her character. No hope for her to actually develop at all...
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Who says she's stronger than Chappa?
King Chappa was old news by the 23rd Budokai while Chi-Chi had more impressive showings against Goku than Chappa ever did, gag or not. Chappa even fared worse against an easier attack from Goku.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Who says she's stronger than Chappa?
King Chappa was old news by the 23rd Budokai while Chi-Chi had more impressive showings against Goku than Chappa ever did, gag or not. Chappa even fared worse against an easier attack from Goku.
Goku one-shotted both of them. This "better showing" doesn't exist.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Who says she's stronger than Chappa?
King Chappa was old news by the 23rd Budokai while Chi-Chi had more impressive showings against Goku than Chappa ever did, gag or not. Chappa even fared worse against an easier attack from Goku.
Goku one-shotted both of them. This "better showing" doesn't exist.
Except the others had a far greater reaction to the effort that into taking down Chi-Chi than they did King Chappa.
Not to mention Chi-Chi gave Goku (granted he still wasn't giving it his all but still...) minor trouble avoiding attacks even matching a casual jump from him, which is more than King Chappa was ever able to do. Oh and there's her confidence in beating Goku despite seeing how easily he one-shotted Chappa.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Except the others had a far greater reaction to the effort that into taking down Chi-Chi than they did King Chappa.
Not to mention Chi-Chi gave Goku (granted he still wasn't giving it his all but still...) minor trouble avoiding attacks even matching a casual jump from him, which is more than King Chappa was ever able to do. Oh and there's her confidence in beating Goku despite seeing how easily he one-shotted Chappa.
Probably because Goku didn't even bother touching her. She wasn't worth the effort.
Chi-Chi is a bit weaker than Roshi, who thought that the Goku he basically fought to a draw with could not beat Chappa in the 22nd Budokai, and Chappa, by his own words, was stronger in the 23rd Budokai than he was in the 22nd. And Chi-Chi cannot sense ki, and has no reason to know who Chappa is, so her reaction is meaningless. Besides, she was hell-bent on fighting Goku. She wasn't acting rationally.
I would take this more seriously, but you have an obvious Chi-Chi bias, as shown in every other post you make on this forum.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Except the others had a far greater reaction to the effort that into taking down Chi-Chi than they did King Chappa.
Not to mention Chi-Chi gave Goku (granted he still wasn't giving it his all but still...) minor trouble avoiding attacks even matching a casual jump from him, which is more than King Chappa was ever able to do. Oh and there's her confidence in beating Goku despite seeing how easily he one-shotted Chappa.
Probably because Goku didn't even bother touching her. She wasn't worth the effort.
Chi-Chi is a bit weaker than Roshi, who thought that the Goku he basically fought to a draw with could not beat Chappa in the 22nd Budokai, and Chappa, by his own words, was stronger in the 23rd Budokai than he was in the 22nd. And Chi-Chi cannot sense ki, and has no reason to know who Chappa is, so her reaction is meaningless. Besides, she was hell-bent on fighting Goku. She wasn't acting rationally.
I would take this more seriously, but you have an obvious Chi-Chi bias, as shown in every other post you make on this forum.
Not quite... Goku had to use a special type of Kiai (which enough to catch Piccolo's attention) in order to beat her and that's what shocked everyone (Roshi himself had a hard time trying to comprehend what just happened) otherwise, they wouldn't really be that impressed much less shocked.
Why does it matter that much she can't sense ki? Fighters at the time mostly used to gauge their opponent's strength based on movement rather than ki sensing and what you said on the clearly of her mindset facing Goku is nothing more than assumption based on conjecture. She was pretty sure of her abilities to me especially considering she was surprised that Goku had improved as much as he did (and she was well-aware he went off training with Muten Roshi).
Also, slightly weaker than 21st Budokai Muten Roshi? You got that from the the 31st issue of Weekly Shōnen Jump power level chart, did you? Sorry, I don't go with official numbers.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Shecwould only be relevant in the fight against the Saiyans, but I think it would be very hard for her to allow Gohan to fight if she had to be present. I'm not sure it would have worked, plotwise. Strengthwise, the plot can make her as strong as any other human if the plot required it. But dramatically, she would take away from Piccolo in those scenes.
She could have gone to Namek with Bulma et al, that might have worked ok, helping out with Dende and the like, and having her be able to fly, and give someone for Bulma to play off against, and defeat some mooks.
After that, I'm not sure there is much she could do differently. Regardless of strength, the would leave the battle once Goku got sick in the Android saga, and wouldn't do any good against Cell, so she would probably stay home (especially if she suspected being pregnant). Same in Buu. At most she would have entered the tournament, and lost against #18 -- but then Mighty Mask might have not decided to compete.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Except the others had a far greater reaction to the effort that into taking down Chi-Chi than they did King Chappa.
Not to mention Chi-Chi gave Goku (granted he still wasn't giving it his all but still...) minor trouble avoiding attacks even matching a casual jump from him, which is more than King Chappa was ever able to do. Oh and there's her confidence in beating Goku despite seeing how easily he one-shotted Chappa.
Probably because Goku didn't even bother touching her. She wasn't worth the effort.
Chi-Chi is a bit weaker than Roshi, who thought that the Goku he basically fought to a draw with could not beat Chappa in the 22nd Budokai, and Chappa, by his own words, was stronger in the 23rd Budokai than he was in the 22nd. And Chi-Chi cannot sense ki, and has no reason to know who Chappa is, so her reaction is meaningless. Besides, she was hell-bent on fighting Goku. She wasn't acting rationally.
I would take this more seriously, but you have an obvious Chi-Chi bias, as shown in every other post you make on this forum.
Not quite... Goku had to use a special type of Kiai (which enough to catch Piccolo's attention) in order to beat her and that's what shocked everyone (Roshi himself had a hard time trying to comprehend what just happened) otherwise, they wouldn't really be that impressed much less shocked.
Why does it matter that much she can't sense ki? Fighters at the time mostly used to gauge their opponent's strength based on movement rather than ki sensing and what you said on the clearly of her mindset facing Goku is nothing more than assumption based on conjecture. She was pretty sure of her abilities to me especially considering she was surprised that Goku had improved as much as he did (and she was well-aware he went off training with Muten Roshi).
Also, slightly weaker than 21st Budokai Muten Roshi? You got that from the the 31st issue of Weekly Shōnen Jump power level chart, did you? Sorry, I don't go with official numbers.
Prove that it is a "special type of Kiai." Regardless, they are amazed at Goku, not Chi-Chi. Chi-Chi never did anything. During the whole tournament, she's hellbent on getting back at Goku. She has no idea the caliber of the fighters that are being dealt, nor does she care. She's demonstrating that one-track mind you rail against in every thread that discusses her.
Without that page, there's nothing to suggest she's as strong as Namu, much less Chappa. So I'm not sure why you would argue that.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Probably because Goku didn't even bother touching her. She wasn't worth the effort.
Chi-Chi is a bit weaker than Roshi, who thought that the Goku he basically fought to a draw with could not beat Chappa in the 22nd Budokai, and Chappa, by his own words, was stronger in the 23rd Budokai than he was in the 22nd. And Chi-Chi cannot sense ki, and has no reason to know who Chappa is, so her reaction is meaningless. Besides, she was hell-bent on fighting Goku. She wasn't acting rationally.
I would take this more seriously, but you have an obvious Chi-Chi bias, as shown in every other post you make on this forum.
A "Chi-chi bias" isn't required to look at the fights between Goku and Chappa and Goku and Chi-chi in the 23rd tournament and assume, based on those fights, that Chichi is superior to Chappa. In fact, that seems to be the most logical assumption (compared to the assumption that Chappa is superior to her).
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Prove that it is a "special type of Kiai." Regardless, they are amazed at Goku, not Chi-Chi. Chi-Chi never did anything. During the whole tournament, she's hellbent on getting back at Goku. She has no idea the caliber of the fighters that are being dealt, nor does she care. She's demonstrating that one-track mind you rail against in every thread that discusses her.
Without that page, there's nothing to suggest she's as strong as Namu, much less Chappa. So I'm not sure why you would argue that.
Muten Roshi (a far stronger Roshi than the one fro the 21st Budokai) was shocked at her skill level while fighting Goku in addition of her style resembling his Turtle Hermit style:
Chapter: 171, P4.1
Kame-sennin: “I don’t know quite what’s going on here, but that girl is quite a master…Wh-what’s more, [her style] resembles my own Kame-sen School…”
....and the Z-Warriors agreed she was strong while at the prelims (which she breezed through).
Also, she knows of Muten Roshi's legendary powers (specially since he's her father's master), knew of Goku's strength as well, and was well-aware he would get stronger while training under Roshi. Nothing points to her being completely ignorant to the level of competition of the Tenkaichi Budokai especially since the one she came into is the hardest year, or straight up ignoring it out of revenge.
Like said before, Chi-Chi matched a casual superjump from Goku and even fought him in the air... which Nam had trouble doing against Goku in the 21st Budokai.
Last edited by DBZAOTA482 on Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
I'm not the one using illegal scanlations to support my point. It was a kiai. He basically blew her out of the arena, and then mentioned that he "put too much power into it."
Unless you think that Chi-Chi is stronger than Roshi was at the 21st Budokai (the guy who blew up the moon), she cannot be stronger than Chappa. Roshi considered Chappa to be stronger than the Goku who fought to a draw with himself, and Chappa grew stronger after that.
Chi-Chi's tough, but, again, nothing places her above even Namu, aside from the battle power given to her in Weekly Jump.
Shockwave
First Appearance: Chapter 150
Category: ki manipulation
People: Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo, Cell, Nappa, others
Special Characteristics: This puts into practical use as a technique the shockwave, a wall of air produced when objects move through the atmosphere faster than the speed of sound. Since it doesn’t directly attack with ki, it is not a ki manipulation technique strictly speaking, but it similar to them in that it inflicts large damage on distant opponents. It inflicts damage on the enemy by producing an artificial shockwave through rapid hand movement or the emission of ki. What’s more, it is possible to fire it straight forward without concentrating power. (Daizenshuu 4, p.111)
Fist~
People: Goku
First Appearance: Chapter 171
Special Characteristics: An attack where the fist is pumped with tremendous force, unleashing a shockwave at the opponent. Goku was taught this technique by God during his difficult training in the Heavenly Realm. During the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai, he blew Chi Chi out of the ring with this technique.
Wouldn't have made a difference if she was Z-Warrior. She would have been left in the dust by the time the Namek arc began.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Best case scenario I could see her making it to the Cell arc, but she'd fall into the same class of "super strong earthling, but unable to reach saiyajin and namekian level" as Kuririn and Tenshinhan once the Buu arc hit.
Re: Whis
I just want Super to do a better job writing Chi-Chi's character. She mellowed out in the Buu arc in terms of her "traditional family unit" cravings, but Super's writing her like her Cell arc self; and her anime-Cell-arc self at that. @_@ She's a a character with a lot of underutilized potential imo and so far Super's only been writing a single aspect of her personality. Maybe things will get better for her once we get past episode 18 and a different writer steps in again. I think Yoshifumi Fukushima just doesn't like her (this is the writer who wrote this weeks' script along with the next upcoming three).
Yoshitaka Toshio was nice to her (that's the writer who had her thinking up names for the grandkid and complimenting Vegeta on his going with Bulma and Trunks on vacation saying how mature he's become.)
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