The Characterization in Super... (General Discussion Thread)

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't think Goku is written with anyone in mind. Goku is being written as Goku or whoever writing thinks Goku is like. It just so happens that Nozawa and now Schemmel can capture Goku whatever way he is being written.

[fadeddreams5]

Goku was written with Nozawa in mind before too, but a lot of people don't approve of it.

The fact that I feel Schemmel's voice doesn't fit this Goku goes to show he's different. He's being portrayed as more over-the-top and goofy, as well as more absent-minded.

Or it just meant that Dub!Goku was different and changed from the original and Schemmel acted accordingly to the changes made to Goku.

What did you think of BoG!Schemmel, though? Other than episode 1 and episode 15/16, there is not that much different in Goku's expressions and mannerisms in Super vs the movie. And I think Schemmel can pull off bantering with Mr. Satan and Krillin and still make it feel like Goku.

Besides some dialogue changes and the male voice, the dub's Goku wasn't that radically different. Also, there's Kai.

I actually loved Schemmel's performance in BoG, tbh. Truthfully, I didn't even like the movie until I saw it dubbed. You know, maybe I'll be surprised again when I see this series dubbed, but I do feel BoG had a better placement in its comedy.

I don't like comedy like this being placed during a tense battle:
https://youtu.be/64T7oYECYK0?t=2m52s

This is how it should be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD-eYLbXlsk

Goku was serious during the final battle of BoG and tame throughout the rest.

You're oversimplifying the character.

Am I missing some nuances? Maybe. Have I captured the essentials? Yes.

Thing is, using those essentials, you also described to me Naruto and Luffy.

[irreality]

I actually loved Schemmel's performance in BoG, tbh. Truthfully, I didn't even like the movie until I saw it dubbed. You know, maybe I'll be surprised again when I see this series dubbed, but I do feel BoG had a better placement in its comedy.

Yeah, maybe you will see the character differently if and when Super is dubbed. If you don't like Nozawa's performance you might be reacting to that more than Super itself because it is not than different than BoG.

[Doctor.]

I don't like comedy like this being placed during a tense battle:
https://youtu.be/64T7oYECYK0?t=2m52s

Like Goku and Boo biting each-other? Or Goku biting Freeza? Or Vegetto destroying Boo as candy?

Those are all serious battles with the universe at stake. Goku vs Beerus? Yes, a serious battle with the universe at stake. But what's the difference? Goku and Beerus become friends as the fight goes on, not with Boo or Freeza.

[fadeddreams5]

I don't like comedy like this being placed during a tense battle:
https://youtu.be/64T7oYECYK0?t=2m52s

Like Goku and Boo biting each-other? Or Goku biting Freeza? Or Vegetto destroying Boo as candy?

Those are all serious battles with the universe at stake. Goku vs Beerus? Yes, a serious battle with the universe at stake. But what's the difference? Goku and Beerus become friends as the fight goes on, not with Boo or Freeza.

I don't mean comedy in general. I meant comedy like that, with the "ow ow ow," silly yelling, and treating a physical attack as a gag.

Goku biting Frieza was very funny because it's everything you don't expect in that insanely serious battle. Against Beerus, you do... and more, unfortunately.

Buu and Goku biting each other? Goku was imitating Buu, who's absolutely bonkers and treats chaos/destruction as some twisted children's game. It's fitting.

Vegito beating up Buu as a candy was especially hilarious because every single time Buu has turned someone into a snack in the past, it's meant he's automatically won. But this time, his opponent is so strong that he remains in control and beats the ever living hell out of him as a jawbreaker. Completely unexpected and hysterical.

Things that subvert expectations like that are funny. The fight against Beerus in Super is plagued with cutaway gags and silly scenes that conflict with the drama. It's like they try everything they can to force comedy (none of which is amusing) to the viewers, even when it's not appropriate.

[Doctor.]

Then look at the Jackie Chun and Goku fight, same thing applies. And I know that you're going to say that the stakes in that fight were very low, but, again, Goku and Beerus become friends as the fight goes on, the stakes become progressively smaller allowing for more comedic moments. And I don't think any of the Boo fights subverted expectations, it was a more comedy-oriented arc and you could expect a funny scene at any point, just look at Gotenks vs Boo.

If you want a serious fight with little to no comedic moments, then wait for Super's Goku vs Freeza. It seems your problem is with the type of comedy rather than the presence of comedy itself, and I can't do anything about that, I very much think it's something kids will find funny, if you don't, well, you're not the target audience.

[LuckyCat]

you also described to me Naruto and Luffy.

Those characters are pretty famous for being inspired by Goku and Goku is the original. They may act alike, but they are involved in different adventures.

[fadeddreams5]

Then look at the Jackie Chun and Goku fight, same thing applies. And I know that you're going to say that the stakes in that fight were very low, but, again, Goku and Beerus become friends as the fight goes on, the stakes become progressively smaller allowing for more comedic moments. And I don't think any of the Boo fights subverted expectations, it was a more comedy-oriented arc and you could expect a funny scene at any point, just look at Gotenks vs Boo.

If you want a serious fight with little to no comedic moments, then wait for Super's Goku vs Freeza. It seems your problem is with the type of comedy rather than the presence of comedy itself, and I can't do anything about that, I very much think it's something kids will find funny, if you don't, well, you're not the target audience.

The fight ends with everyone believing Beerus fell asleep before he could blow up the Earth. The stakes were pretty big. I hated Gotenks vs Buu. Such an annoying character. Interesting moves though.

That is my problem. I mean, I watch One Punch Man, which also leans more towards comedy than drama, and I'm laughing from start to finish. My other problem is how lighthearted Super is compared to the Piccolo-Cell and even most of the Buu sagas. I'm not the target audience of any of that either, but boy do I enjoy it.

I actually am curious to know whether 7-13 year old boys prefer this type of series over something like DBZ.

[Blade]

I've seen a lot of people criticise Super's characterisation of Goku so far in the series' run, claiming that for the most part, he has been written as a simplistic derivation of Toriyama's more complex conception of the character.

So in response to that notion, I think I'd just like to throw it out there that, in my opinion, Toriyama's script for RoF includes one of the most whittled down caricatures of Goku's character that we have seen in recent years. He likes training? Check. He likes food? Check? He enjoys the challenge of a fight? Check. His careless nature gets the better of him? Check. And that's it. That's a literal point-to-point of his role in the entire film.

[precita]

I don't know if its been mentioned, but Trunks and Goten act much younger in Super than in the Buu saga.

It almost feels like they're 6-7 here, whereas in Buu they were 8 and 7 respectively. They seemed older too.

[irreality]

I feel Goten acts older: he has the sort of naive, cutesy, idolize brother thing going on in DBZ. in Super he seems less sheltered and more independent, and smart enough to advise Goku. He still looks teeny tiny, but I think he acts a bit more mature.

Trunks, I feel they haven't done much with him. He *might* be a little more playful but I chalk that up on his father finally being kind to him.

[DBZAOTA482]

Maybe he was right about it in the end... he woulda did the world favor but Mr. Satan had to get in the way.

He was 3 seconds away from killing Bulma before Mr. Satan stopped him (DBS Ep. 3) and he started the whole fight with Beerus over pudding. Just... who's dumbass idea was it to make Boo an insufferable asshole for the sake of shitty gags and thought it'd be funny? I ain't laughing... it's makes my mind cavort with rage.

Did I forget to mention Fat Boo, the one before the evil was expelled, was way nicer after meeting that blind orphan?

[precita]

You're talking about episodes written 19 years apart. How Fat Buu acted in DBZ (or GT) was so long ago the current writers probably don't remember.

[fadeddreams5]

Just... who's dumbass idea was it to make Boo an insufferable asshole for the sake of shitty gags and thought it'd be funny? I ain't funny... it's makes my mind cavort with rage.

This is how I feel about the majority of Super's characters and gags. =P

Did I forget to mention Fat Boo, the one before the evil was expelled, was way nicer after meeting that blind orphan?

Buu was generally a better written character in the filler and GT. He was actually shown to care for Mr. Satan and respect him. Now it seems he only does what Mr. Satan wants out of bribery.

[Zephyr]

Guys, it's obviously Buu's time of the month. Only, since Buu has such a long lifespan, the interval of him being pissy is much larger.

[dbzfan7]

Guys, it's obviously Buu's time of the month. Only, since Buu has such a long lifespan, the interval of him being pissy is much larger.

Nah he just mad he should fit 3 the qualities of being an important character, and then one was removed from him so he was barred from joining the holy ranks.