One Punch Man and Dragon Ball crossover

[Sandubadear]

To begin with, Saitama would lose against anyone who can warp reality, banish him to another dimension, or several other kinds of high magic. His only power is maximum strength.

He is protected by Plot Armor in his series, so even if someone with those powers appeared, he'd win somehow; but in a serious no-tricks fight, Saitama could lose to Garlic Jr's Dead Zone.

[fadeddreams5]

he not exactly limitless considering boros survived a hit from and he had to use a certain amount even while holding back against boros attack going by feats the shit he done is not impressive to the likes of goku and superman shit that not even impressive to even half of fiction.

He's limitless until the creator decides to give him some sort of cap, which just isn't happening. Boros survived his normal punches, and that was only because he had that armor and regeneration. His planet surface destroying beam was deflected and he was one-shotted when Saitama got "serious," but it's later revealed he wasn't serious at all.

My point was that, against much weaker opponents, Freeza and Vegeta would equally appear to have no limits, because their limits wouldn't be anywhere close to being reached.

I mean I love the anime/manga, but people who act like he's unbeatable to anyone from any series just ruin my enjoyment of it... much like people who claim Goku or Superman can beat anyone.

I get what you're saying.

However, he should, by all means, be unbeatable to anyone who isn't a reality warper or abstract being. That's... the point of the character. Take that away, and he's not One Punch Man. In the case of this discussion, I maintain, he should be able to effortlessly one-shot Vegeta.

He is protected by Plot Armor in his series, so even if someone with those powers appeared, he'd win somehow; but in a serious no-tricks fight, Saitama could lose to Garlic Jr's Dead Zone.

I don't think plot armor really applies here, tbh. The funny thing about Saitama is that he's not even relevant to most of the shit that happens in his series. That's what makes it funnier. So many characters unrelated to him in any way have these profound backstories, find themselves losing, and out comes this guy and one-shots the bad guy... or whatever. It's the equivalent of him popping up in the Cell Games and one-shotting Cell multiple times as he continues to regenerate, despite having absolutely no connections with him. Cell decides to self-destruct? Saitama lifts him and quite literally hurls him to the sun. And that's precisely the sort of cross over I'd expect with this character.

[pacz360]

I mean I love the anime/manga, but people who act like he's unbeatable to anyone from any series just ruin my enjoyment of it... much like people who claim Goku or Superman can beat anyone.[/quote]

I get what you're saying.

However, he should, by all means, be unbeatable to anyone who isn't a reality warper or abstract being. That's... the point of the character. Take that away, and he's not One Punch Man. In the case of this discussion, I maintain, he should be able to effortlessly one-shot Vegeta.
No cause that like me saying superman is unbeatable cause how he always find which isn't the case going by feats he hasn't done anything to say he could beat goku,superman etc it could change but as of now all i'm seeing is the character getting wanked out of proportions as usual just like those two.

[fadeddreams5]

According to Screw Attack, Superman is unbeatable. lol.

Going by feats, he survived being punched to the moon and leaped right back to Earth in seconds. That'd kill any version of Vegeta prior to the new material (even that's debatable).

[pacz360]

According to Screw Attack, Superman is unbeatable. lol.

Going by feats, he survived being punched to the moon and leaped right back to Earth in seconds. That'd kill any version of Vegeta prior to the new material (even that's debatable).

Vegeta survived attacks that could destroy planets back in the saiyan saga and beyond and superior to piccolo who blew up the damn moon in series which saitama hasn't any of that as of now

[rereboy]

> Strongest being in the universe arrives on Earth to fulfill a prophecy that states he'd fight someone who could finally fight evenly with him? Gets one-shotted. Punch line: The prophecy was way off; his opponent was infinitely stronger than him.

That's just a lie. He didn't get one-shotted at all and there's no confirmation that he actually was the strongest in the universe.

You are just heavily focusing on Saitama being the strongest in his own series. Just because he is the strongest in his own series, and that is used for humor and fun situations in his series, it doesn't mean that he can beat anyone from every series ever.

Also, you continue to misunderstand what Deathbattle meant to say about Superman. What Deathbattle stated about Superman is that, compared to Goku, who is a character that is written to be the underdog but somehow manages to overcome the odds, Superman is written to pretty much always be stronger and more powerful than his adversaries and the difficulties he comes across aren't usually due to a lack of power. This factor, coupled with his more impressive feats, gives him a definite advantage when compared to Goku. Nowhere was it ever said by them that Superman is stronger than any other character ever.

[pacz360]

> Strongest being in the universe arrives on Earth to fulfill a prophecy that states he'd fight someone who could finally fight evenly with him? Gets one-shotted. Punch line: The prophecy was way off; his opponent was infinitely stronger than him.

That's just a lie. He didn't get one-shotted at all and there's no confirmation that he actually was the strongest in the universe.

You are just heavily focusing on Saitama being the strongest in his own series. Just because he is the strongest in his own series, and that is used for humor and fun situations in his series, it doesn't mean that he can beat anyone from every series ever.
Thank you this is what i mean.

[BrolyLSSJ]

According to Screw Attack, Superman is unbeatable. lol.

Going by feats, he survived being punched to the moon and leaped right back to Earth in seconds. That'd kill any version of Vegeta prior to the new material (even that's debatable).

Pretty much....

[BrolyLSSJ]

To begin with, Saitama would lose against anyone who can warp reality, banish him to another dimension, or several other kinds of high magic. His only power is maximum strength.

He is protected by Plot Armor in his series, so even if someone with those powers appeared, he'd win somehow; but in a serious no-tricks fight, Saitama could lose to Garlic Jr's Dead Zone.

Plot armor???? what!

[fadeddreams5]

That's just a lie. He didn't get one-shotted at all and there's no confirmation that he actually was the strongest in the universe.

Maybe not the strongest, but he was basically the Frieza of that series in the sense of having traveled far and wide throughout the universe and never found a single person who matched his strength.

And he pretty much did get one-shotted by the serious strike. At any point, Saitama could have ended the fight with a single punch, but he chose to humor the guy. It's the equivalent of Beerus fighting SSJ3 Goku, who you can argue didn't get one-shotted because he was flicked before getting karate chopped. But at full strength, he was still knocked out with one hit.

You are just heavily focusing on Saitama being the strongest in his own series. Just because he is the strongest in his own series, and that is used for humor and fun situations in his series, it doesn't mean that he can beat anyone from every series ever.

I'm not really focusing on power levels within the series at all. I'm drawing emphasis on the premise of the story and writing itself; he's written to have limitless power. You can throw in a multiversal threat, eater of planets, god himself, and the fights will always end with some sort of anticlimactic punch line. In any sort of cross over, this is how this character is meant to be used. Otherwise, they're doing it wrong.

Also, you continue to misunderstand what Deathbattle meant to say about Superman. What Deathbattle stated about Superman is that, compared to Goku, who is a character that is written to be the underdog but somehow manages to overcome the odds, Superman is written to pretty much always be stronger and more powerful than his adversaries and the difficulties he comes across aren't usually due to a lack of power. This factor, coupled with his more impressive feats, gives him a definite advantage when compared to Goku. Nowhere was it ever said by them that Superman is stronger than any other character ever.

That is what I've been saying about Saitama.

Quotes: "Superman is an all powerful being... he is not meant to lose." "What happens when you pit a man with a power to break any limits against a being with no limits in the first place? Well, only one has limits to give at all."

Isn't that the same as implying he is stronger than pretty much every non-abstract, magical, or reality warping being ever?

[BrolyLSSJ]

The comments are just.....wut.....

[dbgtFO]

Anyone knows, if One made the Lord Boros part of One-Punch Man before or after BoG?

[Polyphase Avatron]

However, he should, by all means, be unbeatable to anyone who isn't a reality warper or abstract being. That's... the point of the character. Take that away, and he's not One Punch Man. In the case of this discussion, I maintain, he should be able to effortlessly one-shot Vegeta.

This line of reasoning just doesn't make any sense to me.

You could equally make the same kind of argument about almost any other character - say, Naruto for instance.

"The whole point of Naruto's character is that he starts as an underachiever, but via sheer determination and "The Will of Fire" he always comes out on top in the end, so that means he can beat anyone, or else he wouldn't be Naruto".

[rereboy]

Isn't that the same as implying he is stronger than pretty much every non-abstract, magical, or reality warping being ever?

Only if we have no sense of interpretation at all since in the very same video they mention Spectre and they talk extensively about how impressive it is for Superman to just lift him. Not beat him, lift him. It's clear that they are fully aware that there are beings more powerful than Superman even in DC.

What they say about the intent of the character is not meant to say that he is stronger than any other character ever. It's just meant to say that that's an actual advantage compared to a character who is written to be an underdog.

Maybe not the strongest, but he was basically the Freeza of that series in the sense of having traveled far and wide throughout the universe and never found a single person who matched his strength.

And just like Freeza, it's entirely possible, even probable, that many characters will appear in the future that will make him look like a bug in terms of power.

And he pretty much did get one-shotted by the serious strike. At any point, Saitama could have ended the fight with a single punch, but he chose to humor the guy. It's the equivalent of Beerus fighting SSJ3 Goku, who you can argue didn't get one-shotted because he was flicked before getting karate chopped. But at full strength, he was still knocked out with one hit.

He was knocked out with one hit after receiving several hits. So, no, he wasn't oneshotted. And you have no idea just how strong Saitama's punch was, what percentage of his full power it had, how much it affected the enemy, or how exactly things would have played out if had begun with a full power punch at the start. It's just speculation.

I'm not really focusing on power levels within the series at all. I'm drawing emphasis on the premise of the story and writing itself; he's written to have limitless power. You can throw in a multiversal threat, eater of planets, god himself, and the fights will always end with some sort of anticlimactic punch line. In any sort of cross over, this is how this character is meant to be used. Otherwise, they're doing it wrong.

That makes no sense. Nowhere in the series is it stated that he is omnipotent, nor has he shown any abilities besides being really fast, strong and resistant. He's just the strongest character in his series, and that is used for humor and funny situations. That's all. The "rule" that he is the strongest doesn't apply to other series.

For example, imagine Buffy versus Blade. Buffy, in her series, is a human but she is also a Slayer, and Slayers are always stronger than vampires in her series as a rule. Meanwhile, in Blade's series, no human is stronger than a vampire and there are no Slayers. That means that if we really wanted to keep these "rules" it would be impossible to compare them because the rules are incompatible, or we would to have to keep a set of rules, while forgetting the others, which would skew the conclusion in favor of one of them. This is why following blindly these rules doesn't work.

[Polyphase Avatron]

That's just a lie. He didn't get one-shotted at all and there's no confirmation that he actually was the strongest in the universe.

Maybe not the strongest, but he was basically the Freeza of that series in the sense of having traveled far and wide throughout the universe and never found a single person who matched his strength.

And he pretty much did get one-shotted by the serious strike. At any point, Saitama could have ended the fight with a single punch, but he chose to humor the guy. It's the equivalent of Beerus fighting SSJ3 Goku, who you can argue didn't get one-shotted because he was flicked before getting karate chopped. But at full strength, he was still knocked out with one hit.

You have to think about context here. So what if Boros was supposedly the strongest in his universe? His most powerful attack was stated to wipe out the surface of the Earth. That makes him maybe around as powerful as Raditz. If everyone stronger than Raditz in DBZ disappeared, Raditz would also be the strongest in his universe. Does that somehow mean anything special?

I'm not really focusing on power levels within the series at all. I'm drawing emphasis on the premise of the story and writing itself; he's written to have limitless power. You can throw in a multiversal threat, eater of planets, god himself, and the fights will always end with some sort of anticlimactic punch line. In any sort of cross over, this is how this character is meant to be used. Otherwise, they're doing it wrong.

You're assuming that the supposed intentions of one author override the intentions of any other authors. If I write about a character and explicitly state that he/she/it is unbeatable and can defeat any opponent, do my words automatically override those of any other writers? What happens if you try to argue two in-story "invincible" characters from different series against each other? Let's say both are shown to be completely unbeatable in their own series and have never been challenged or struggled, but one of them has planetary level feats at maximum and the other has universe-level feats. Doesn't it make sense to say the latter one would win?

Going back to my Naruto example, there were statements in the manga to the effect of saying that Itachi's Yata Mirror could deflect any attack. As, for the longest time in the series, nothing contradicted that (any attack used against it left it and the user unharmed), some people took this to mean it could make Itachi completely impervious to any attack in all of fiction, from a nuke to the Death Star to a supernova to the Big Bang to Galactus' Ultimate Nullifier and so on. Does this sound reasonable to you?

Some people have a word for this kind of thing, they call it a "no limit fallacy". One person summed it up by giving the analogy of someone driving down a road and saying "I don't see a speed limit sign, so the speed limit must be infinity. Can I go now?"

That is what I've been saying about Saitama.

Quotes: "Superman is an all powerful being... he is not meant to lose." "What happens when you pit a man with a power to break any limits against a being with no limits in the first place? Well, only one has limits to give at all."

Isn't that the same as implying he is stronger than pretty much every non-abstract, magical, or reality warping being ever?

Yes, and that's also wrong.

[Sandubadear]

Should have a Saitama vs. Great Saiyaman (and just for the lulz, Great Saiyaman should be a Class C hero, even though Gohan is smart and could go straight to Class S like Genos).

[Polyphase Avatron]

Should have a Saitama vs. Great Saiyaman (and just for the lulz, Great Saiyaman should be a Class C hero, even though Gohan is smart and could go straight to Class S like Genos).

I think Gohan could pass the written exam... all that studying pays off.

[Sandubadear]

Should have a Saitama vs. Great Saiyaman (and just for the lulz, Great Saiyaman should be a Class C hero, even though Gohan is smart and could go straight to Class S like Genos).

I think Gohan could pass the written exam... all that studying pays off.

Yes, so I was thinking that instead he suppressed too much his ki to not show his maximum power and only managed to pass with half-decent grades in the physical exam.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Should have a Saitama vs. Great Saiyaman (and just for the lulz, Great Saiyaman should be a Class C hero, even though Gohan is smart and could go straight to Class S like Genos).

I think Gohan could pass the written exam... all that studying pays off.

Yes, so I was thinking that instead he suppressed his ki to not show his maximum power and only managed to pass with half-decent grades in the physical exam.

That could work.

[jjgp1112]

Frankly, who cares? This is why I find strength debates, especially across different series with entirely different logic and conventions, to be so boring and fruitless. The whole point of One Punch Man is that Saitama is a walking hax whose power is completely illogical in any realistic scenario given his training, and is bored with his nigh-invulnerability no matter what stands in front of him. Much like Superman, he's as strong as the story needs him to be, "feats" be damned. Otherwise, there is no One Punch Man. Let's leave it at that.

The plots and elements clash with each other so much that arguments are just a pointless exercise of back-and-forth bickering that will lead absolutely nowhere.