Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

[EmmaWinters]

I think people are incorrectly taking the 'make dinner' line as a sexist comment but it quite clearly is an endearing line by Krillin just telling her he will be home safe.

Agreed. Most of the comments I've seen about it are made in jest, but
there are a lot of oversensitive people who take it as the worst remark EVER~

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

Kuririn hoped there was no such thing as being killed by the same enemy twice, but ... Trunks and Cell have killed each other at least twice.

[Adamant]

Kuririn hoped there was no such thing as being killed by the same enemy twice, but ... Trunks and Cell have killed each other at least twice.

I think you've been watching bad fansubs there.

[Sandubadear]

My friend has seen a sub where 18 says "I have as much power as you guys do.".. lol

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Kuririn hoped there was no such thing as being killed by the same enemy twice, but ... Trunks and Cell have killed each other at least twice.

It's not exactly the same thing, it wasn't the same versions that killed each other. T2 Trunks killed T1 Cell & T2 Cell, while T3 Cell killed T3 Trunks & T2 Trunks.

T1/2/3 = Timeline 1 [Main]/Timeline 2 [Future Trunks']/Timeline 3 [Cell's]

[Herms]

Kuririn hoped there was no such thing as being killed by the same enemy twice, but ... Trunks and Cell have killed each other at least twice.

As Adamant alluded to, that's a mistranslation. The actual line is Kuririn going "I won't get killed by the same enemy again...right?" So he's contemplating the possibility of getting killed by Freeza again, rather than flat-out denying it as an impossibility.

I've added an entry for this line in.

My friend has seen a sub where 18 says "I have as much power as you guys do.".. lol

Thanks. Updated with this too.

[Saiga]

I've seen a lot of debate over what Kuririn actually says to 18 to get her to stay behind, is there any chance this line could be added since it seems controversial enough?

And to clarify I mean there have been claims that what he said is actually reassuring 18 that he won't die and he'll be home for dinner, or there's some deeper Japanese context that makes the line "better".

[Herms]

Updated for episode 21.

NEW!
==Episode 21==

Spoiler:

Minute: 3
Kuririn: “Goku and Vegeta aren't here yet? Well, I guess that's all right, we've got Boo, and...Huh? Where's Boo?”
Gohan: “You see... Apparently, once he falls asleep, he won't wake up for some time…Even if you shake, hit, or tickle him, nothing works...”
Significance: This line originally appeared in Toriyama’s script for RF, as printed in Volume “F”, but it was ultimately cut from the movie (the finished film contains no explanation for why Boo didn’t take part in the battle). However, the second chapter of Toyotaro’s manga adaptation of RF retained the line, and now Super has done the same. Super also adds in the explanation that shaking/hitting/tickling Boo doesn’t work, and even includes a brief shot of him sleeping over at Mr. Satan’s house.

This new depiction of Boo’s sleeping habits seems to contradict the main series, where after building his house Boo comically goes to sleep for only a few seconds. On the other hand, it seems like it might tie in with Toriyama’s new version of Boo’s origin, as outlined in his Twel-Boo Mysteries interview:

Though in the manga Kaiōshin said that Bibidi made him, the truth is that one called “Buu” was not actually created by Bididi, but has existed since time immemorial. He cycled between rampages and long hibernation. During numerous iterations of this cycle, he absorbed the evil elements of mankind, becoming steadily more violent. Bibidi merely knew the means of calling Buu from out of his long slumber. Since the current Buu is a slightly different life-form due to the changes brought about when the evil Buu was expelled, it’s not known whether he’ll still go into long hibernation.

---

Minute: 8
Freeza: “The current Freeza Army is no more than a hodgepodge of second-rate soldiers.”

And later, 16 minutes in…

Freeza: “I'm having trouble believing my army has become so weak that it is incapable of disposing of a single fool!”
Significance: “Second-rate” (二級) in the sense of “not very good”. Freeza’s description is very similar to what Toriyama writes in his RF script, as part of his brief description of the big battle:

Despite being called “Freeza Army”, by now it’s been reduced to merely a hodge-podge of second-rate warriors. Strength-wise Earth’s army overwhelmingly has the upper hand, and the enemy force’s numbers steadily drop. However, there are still some strong enemies. The mercenaries are particularly troublesome. Gohan is strongest. And Piccolo’s strong too. Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Kame-sennin, and even Jaco all play a big role.

(While Super has incorporated many elements of Toriyama’s script that were left out of RF, there’s still no sign of these super-strong mercenaries.)

Anyway, taken together these two quotes present Freeza’s army as not what it used to be; apart from Tagoma and Shisami, all their good warriors are long dead. In a pinch, this might serve as an explanation for why Kame-sennin is able to help out in this battle at all. It’s often assumed that every random Freeza goon must be at least as strong as Raditz, but that doesn’t seem to have even been true of all Freeza’s goons on Namek (Gohan and Kuririn with BPs at 1,500 are able to instantly kill two goons). If the goons on Namek and the ones Mecha Freeza brought to Earth were the cream of the crop, then a lot of these goons in the RF arc might be down at Kame-sennin’s level. Although there’s also indication that Kame-sennin is stronger here than back in the main series; Toriyama writes in Volume “F” that Kame-sennin “could have been this strong all along if he had put his mind to it”…whatever that means.

---

Minute: 19~20
Freeza: “That shall do for the training on tormenting Son Goku to the brink of death. Well done, Tagoma-san. Thanks to you, I have managed to climb to yet another stage. You are a highly valuable training partner. Now get into the regeneration device and make sure you're healed properly up for tomorrow. Otherwise, I might end up killing you.”
Significance: Freeza describes his training here as 孫悟空を死なないぎりぎりのラインで痛めつける特訓, literally “training on tormenting Son Goku to the line where he’s only just barely not dead”. In other words, hurting him as much as possible without actually killing him. And he’s using Tagoma for practice, so that he’ll be ready to inflict maximum pain on Goku when they meet again. So…why exactly does this make Tagoma stronger? It’s not exactly spelled out, but presumably there was actual sparring involved, and not just Tagoma standing there letting Freeza hurt him (of course, with the huge gap in their powers, it might amount to the same thing). So maybe fighting all-out against Freeza every day was enough to do the trick. But it’s tempting to speculate that perhaps Tagoma’s race has features similar to the Saiyans, and therefor get similar near-death power ups.

While this isn’t necessarily the only training Freeza does, it’s (so far) the only bit of his training we’ve seen, so again…why does this make Freeza way stronger? Well, as outlined above, Freeza is practicing holding back just enough to avoid killing his opponent. And he’s doing this in his so-called “first form”, which is revealed in the series to be one of several transformations he creates purely to restrain his otherwise uncontrollable power. So to get really speculative, maybe Freeza is focusing on learning new ways to control his power? Especially since this seems to be a big part of Goku and Vegeta’s training under Whis.

---

Minute: 21
Sorbet: “I don't believe this! He's surpassed the Ginyu Special Force we once had!”
Tagoma: “Oh, right, those guys...They're nothing but ancient history, though!”
Significance: While not exactly a contradiction, Tagoma is supposed to be on par with Gohan (see below), so Sorbet’s line here is a considerable understatement. It’s probably mostly there just to remind everyone about the existence of Ginyu. Since that’s apparently going to be a big part of the next episode…

---

Minute: 22~23
Gohan (narrating the NEP): “This Tagoma person is on a completely different level from the other soldiers. He’s hiding power at least on par with my own! No way... His power rose even higher?! What's that bizarre pose?!”
Significance: While hyping up the next episode, Gohan first describes Tagoma “hiding power at least on par with my own” (僕に勝るとも劣らない力を秘めています) and then goes on to say in shock that Tagoma’s power has gone even higher. It would seem then that this would have to make Tagoma at least a little bit stronger than Gohan. These Next Episode Previews always break the fourth wall, so arguably nothing said in them is “canon”, but this episode Tagoma did manage to fatally wound Gohan (or it would have been fatal, had Piccolo and Kuririn not intervened). It was a sneak attack, and Gohan certainly seems weaker than he used to be (“I can still become Super Saiyan…probably…”) but still, Tagoma definitely seems up there now.

Spoilers! Speaking of Tagoma’s power going even higher and him suddenly starting to do funny poses…well, the spoilers for next episode describe frog!Ginyu as switching bodies with him, resulting in him getting even stronger. Exactly what the heck this means is still unclear, and I guess we won’t know for sure until next episode. But based on this NEP, it seems that Ginyu in Tagoma’s body is even stronger than Tagoma was in his own body. Which seems weird, since the punchline to the Ginyu battle was that Ginyu in Goku’s body was massively weaker than Goku himself. Of course, in that case the power-down was explained in terms of Ginyu being not only less used to Goku’s body but also less skilled overall, unable to perform the Kaio-ken. So maybe Ginyu is less skilled than Goku but more skilled than Tagoma, and therefore will be able to get more millage out of Tagoma’s body than Tagoma himself? Well, we shall see…

I've seen a lot of debate over what Kuririn actually says to 18 to get her to stay behind, is there any chance this line could be added since it seems controversial enough?

And to clarify I mean there have been claims that what he said is actually reassuring 18 that he won't die and he'll be home for dinner, or there's some deeper Japanese context that makes the line "better".

I'll think about adding in something for it, but offhand I'm not sure social context changes the meaning of the line too much. The "dinner" line does seem to be him making light of the situation, and that can be interpreted as him trying to reassure her, but I'm not sure if there's anything specifically Japanese about that interpretation.

[jcogginsa]

Perhaps the Ginyu Special Forces Squad is merely the strongest thing Sorbet can think of besides Frieza himself?

[Herms]

Perhaps the Ginyu Special Forces Squad is merely the strongest thing Sorbet can think of besides Freeza himself?

True. Of course, Tagoma should also presumably be stronger than Freeza himself used to be, but I can understand why Sorbet might not want to point that out (assuming he's even able to tell the difference between powers on that scale). Anyway, like I said the line's not really a contradiction, just a really big understatement.

[ssj_duelist]

I'm assuming here but Ginyu always had control over ki, he was the only one who could from Frieza's army. So maybe him in Tagoma's body is stronger due to his control over ki. Goku's was a lot harder to control and Ginyu couldn't master kaio ken.

[Doctor.]

Perhaps you should add that line about Goku not being able to keep up with Vegeta. Maybe it's another implication that Vegeta's slightly stronger now?

[Sandubadear]

I've seen a sub where Gohan says he certainly can go Super Saiyan.. should add that.

[Adamant]

Okay, this should be in DBS section. Hope mods will move the topic to that section.

Just a tough about the last episode of DBS.
Unlike Rof, Tenshinhan regrets not bringing Chaozu with him to fight Freeza. In the Android saga, he said that Chaozu was left behind because he wasn't powerful enough to fight the Androids. Now he says he's sorry. Even Gohan conforts him, saying Bulma ordered Goten and Trunks to stay home too.

I actually believe he realizes that, since Roshi is there and there are so many enemies, Chaozu would be useful to the Z-team.

Hmm from the sub i watched Tenshinhan said:this was to dangerous for chiaotzu,sorry

Doesnt seem like hes sorry he didnt bring chiaotzu,more like sorry i didnt bring chiaotzu this is to dangerous for him.

Here's another line that should probably be addressed.

[SaiyanKingMike]

Will this be uppdated soon? Its a couple episode behind. I know it must take time but i love this fACT check to update myself on the mistakes the speed dubs have. Hope this thread continues!!

[djcoopdawg]

Thanks Herms for your dedication to this thread! We know you owe us nothing but just wanted to say thanks for everything you've done so far. I've enjoyed this thread a lot!

[Canis_latrans]

Any idea when it will be updated with episode 22 and 23?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Any idea when it will be updated with episode 22 and 23?

First of all, is there any questionable fansub out there that you find suspicious or badly translated ? That's the reason why this exists.
If answer is no, then there is no point in updating for those episodes.

[Hugo Boss]

About Episode 24.

-- Despite a seemingly even fight, Goku says in one occassion he couldn't defeat Freeza if the fight continued without Vegeta's intervertion.

-- Another one is Freeza suposing that since Goku have defeated Majin Boo he should be stronger, thus he should be hiding more power.

-- Once again Goku uses the same explanation about his new form, but this time the other characters mention things about how Goku became Super Saiyan God again and Roshi wonders if Goku has become stronger than when he fought Beerus.

Are those implications accurate?

[ZombieVito]

Any idea when it will be updated with episode 22 and 23?

First of all, is there any questionable fansub out there that you find suspicious or badly translated ? That's the reason why this exists.
If answer is no, then there is no point in updating for those episodes.

No but it would be nice to have translated power statements about those episodes.