"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Gyt Kaliba]

Why is matching Kuririn's Death count bad? Piccolo is in good company.

Because Krillin is somekind of a joke (not considering Yamcha). Piccolo is a cool character, his sacrifice in last episode was cheap and didn't had impact at all, it was a easy death just to tarnish the glorious history of a character like him and I think he will be probably killed/humilated again in U6 Saga, such a shame.

Also Krillin died in the alternate timeline, so that makes him five.

And just like with the time Boo killed almost literally everyone on Earth, practically all of our heroes save Roshi, Oolong, Puar, and Bulma were killed in that future timeline (and even those, save for Bulma, are debatatable enough via the manga I guess, since it's only in the TV special that we see them) were killed in the alternate timeline. If we count that timeline, Goku's dead too, so that still only puts Kuririn two deaths above him. I still fail to see how that's somehow a mark against a character in a show where characters die and come back multiple times as it is.

And if Kuririn and Yamcha are jokes...well, first of all, I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Mr. Satan is a joke character, and he's still easily one of the best in the cast. Also, if they're jokes, they're at least entertaining ones, compared to, say, hearing the one about Vegeta's 'pride' for the bajillionth time (still very thankful it seems the character has completely moved past that now).

[Chuquita]

Considering how few episodes these two writers have written so far (especially with how Koyama previously was stuck on Pilaf duty), I'm interested to see how the next four episodes will go.

I miss slice-of-life episodes we had back then, hope we have a Arc just full of these before U6 Saga gets started
lol, f*** no

Koyama's been on Pilaf duty so much I can't gauge how he'll be with the rest of the cast. If this was Koyama Sr I sure could (because Sr wrote the 13 Z movies).

[Noah]

I still fail to see how that's somehow a mark against a character in a show where characters die and come back multiple times as it is.

And if Kuririn and Yamcha are jokes...well, first of all, I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Mr. Satan is a joke character, and he's still easily one of the best in the cast. Also, if they're jokes, they're at least entertaining ones, compared to, say, hearing the one about Vegeta's 'pride' for the bajillionth time (still very thankful it seems the character has completely moved past that now).

It's because death is pointless in this show actually, but dying and being revived countless times is trashy, IMO.

Also about Mr. Satan, well... He's intended to be a joke character, not like Yamcha and Krillin that are/were serious fighters which are marked in the series by their constant deaths and defeats.

[Zetto]

I think it's safe to say now that Dragon Ball Super is a Dragon Ball Z sequel with a Toriyama touch. Dragon Ball as a manga ended a long time ago.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Also about Mr. Satan, well... He's intended to be a joke character, not like Yamcha and Krillin that are/were serious fighters which are marked in the series by their constant deaths and defeats.

Goku, Vegeta, and almost all the other characters are constantly defeated too. True, they go on to have a victory in the end more often than other characters get to sadly, but if we're going to count losing a fight against a character's coolness factor, than Goku and Vegeta should be pretty low on that listing by now too. As should Piccolo, given that he's lost to Goku (twice if you want to count Daimao), Raditz, Nappa, Freeza, Android 17 (talking about before the Kami powerup), Cell, and Super Boo.

If winning a fight is all it takes to make a character cool or engaging, then nobody in the series is that 100% of the time.

[dbzfan7]

The hilarious thing will be when if Gohan rage boosts (Which I hope not), it'll still be far less than LOLRAGETA's boost despite Piccolo's circumstance being far worse than Bulma getting slapped, and being the OG rager.

The big difference you're forgetting is that Gohan is seriously hurt, when Vegeta wasn't. Goku even warns him in the preview that his body can't handle it.

I ain't forgetting anything. It'd still be far less than LOLRAGETA as LOLRAGETA is the epitome of ridiculous when it comes to boosts whether if Gohan was fresh or 10x stronger even.

[Lord Beerus]

Hmm, even though death in Dragon Ball doesn't mean much, I have to say, I'm quite surprised they went through with killing Piccolo. The stakes certainly feel much higher in Super than they were in Resurrection F, so I have to credit Toei for making such a radical change from how the movie originally progresses. So the question now then I guess should be who will take Piccolo's place in decimating the rest of Freeza's Army? Yamcha? #18? Maybe a surprise return from #17? Or will Super follow the progression of Resurrection F and just have Freeza kill the rest of army for being so weak? Because if that's the case, that would be very disappointing considering Super version of the Z-Fighters taking on Freeza's army was so weak in comparison to how it panned out in the movie.

[irreality]

Still don't quite believe he is dead, but if so, he might be dead for like 8 months… which might place the U6 tourney later instead of immediately after, thus more time skips. Unless they go to Namek, which is a possibility -- seems like overkill to go to them for a not end of the world scenario.

[Doctor.]

Still don't quite believe he is dead, but if so, he might be dead for like 8 months… which might place the U6 tourney later instead of immediately after, thus more time skips. Unless they go to Namek, which is a possibility -- seems like overkill to go to them for a not end of the world scenario.

Bulma used the Dragon Balls to resurrect the people killed by Freeza back in F (kinda surprised Freeza didn't blow up the city in Super), so this means Toriyama had a 6 month time skip (at the very least) planned.

[fadeddreams5]

Can't they use the dragon balls to wish for all the super dragon ball to move close to each other to make their lives easier? >_>;

Honestly, until it's revealed there are repercussions to using them, their entire existence feels unnecessary. If they really are just planet-sized dragon balls that can grant ANY wish with no limitations or dangers, then even the black star dragon balls were a better idea...

[Doctor.]

I assume that the repercussion is that they're extremely hard to find and gather, but we may know of other downsides to them later.

[fadeddreams5]

They scatter around the multiverse after usage. If not collected within a year, the universe used to wish on will implode. It's up to Goku, Kid Trunks, and Baby Pan to search for them all.

[ekrolo2]

I'll be surprised if there's any major downside, DBs pretty de-fanged now. The characters can't even look actually beat up anymore.

[Puto]

I feel like it bears mentioning that even counting GT (which wouldn't be a factor for Super since even if you want them both to still happen, GT wouldn't have happened yet), Kuririn has only died four times (Tambourine, Freeza, Boo, and then Android 17 in GT). That's only two more times than the lead character of Goku (Radiz and Cell). So Piccolo possibly hitting three deaths as well, only one more than the lead character himself, is hardly some kind of mark of shame.

Piccolo died in GT too, so they would be tied if Piccolo really died now (which is not really confirmed).

Yeah, but it's in the same category of Kuririn's GT death of not really counting towards Super anyway, since even if GT still 'counts', it hasn't happened in the timeline yet. It does still tie them up so for that purpose I should have mentioned it though, my bad. :P

I still don't really see how it's any kind of mark against a character really though (and can we really count when everyone died from Boo, since literally everyone save Goku, Vegeta, Mr. Boo, and Mr. Satan got offed there?). Heck, for all the non-character-ness I feel towards Chaozu, the fact that he's died three times isn't anywhere near the first thing that I'd complain about for the guy.

What about the alternate Kuririn and Piccolo's deaths in Trunks's timeline?

[Zephyr]

Can't you guys just accept that DBS is non canon? Let's just try to enjoy the series the way it is

I'm not making any claims about what is and is not canon, and I don't care what is and is not canon. I'm simply trying to illustrate the degree to which, and inconsistent manner in which, FutureGohanSSJ2 is twisting things in order to reject the idea that Dragon Ball Super takes place in the same continuity of various pieces of filler.

[Gyt Kaliba]

What about the alternate Kuririn and Piccolo's deaths in Trunks's timeline?

Like I already said, I would put that in the same category as when everyone died from Kid Boo blowing up the planet - everyone dies, so is it really fair to count it against that specific character? Sure, it happens, and it's an additional number to how many times someone has gone, but to count it against them? Just doesn't really seem right.

That would go doubly so for that one actually, since that timeline isn't the one that we end up getting focused on. It might be the original timeline, but for the purposes of our story, it's a side one.

[Pannaliciour]

People still complaining if Super (anime) is canon? Something is canon if the creator wants it be canon not something what you like to be canon or not, Toriyama's job in Super is Story & Character Draft. That is basically the most important job. So everything in Super is canon IMO.

[alakazam^]

I don't know why the number of times someone died counts against the character but even if it did, Kuririn and Piccolo's deaths were always impactful and important for several reasons so...

Also, Noah, we know you don't like Super so it's a no-brainer you'll dismiss stuff that happens there but I don't see why Piccolo's "death" was cheap besides it giving a reason for you to complain. No one predicted that would happen so everyone was caught by surprise, thus, everyone reacted to it. You might not like it but it created impact.

I'll just point out (again) that the summary indeed says "Piccolo's death" but I wouldn't count him as definitively dead yet, it might be Namek all over again.

So the question now then I guess should be who will take Piccolo's place in decimating the rest of Freeza's Army? Yamcha? #18? Maybe a surprise return from #17? Or will Super follow the progression of Resurrection F and just have Freeza kill the rest of army for being so weak? Because if that's the case, that would be very disappointing considering Super version of the Z-Fighters taking on Freeza's army was so weak in comparison to how it panned out in the movie.

Well, we know the army is still around when Freeza transforms so they either get caught in the fight or they actually survive this time. Unfortunately, I think they will be wiped out anyway. Either way, there doesn't seem to be room to have anyone else entering the battlefield before Goku and Vegeta do.

Can't they use the dragon balls to wish for all the super dragon ball to move close to each other to make their lives easier? >_>;

Honestly, until it's revealed there are repercussions to using them, their entire existence feels unnecessary. If they really are just planet-sized dragon balls that can grant ANY wish with no limitations or dangers, then even the black star dragon balls were a better idea...

They're still mysterious, I'm sure they'll have something new we didn't have with the previous sets, being the originals and whatnot. I really wouldn't mind Toriyama's take on the Evil Dragons, though.

[Herms]

So over here there's an image with a ep.23 summary that does indeed refer to "Piccolo's death" (over on the right hand side):

Piccolo dying increases Gohan's ki, which allows Goku to lock onto his ki and teleport back to Earth.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Sounds like something I (and others I'm sure) have been theorizing based on the end of the episode/the next time preview might actually come true then - Gohan will temporarily tap into more of his old power (be it SS2, or 'Ultimate', or even just becoming more powerful in general), but his lack of training recently and/or his injured body will make it extremely unwieldy, perhaps even making him burn out faster than he otherwise should too.

With any luck, this might just be the 'respect' towards Gohan that people have been clamoring for, which even for someone like me who's fine with his dorky, nerdy, domestic lifestyle, would be pretty cool to see.