Unpopular DB opinions

[LuckyCat]

I hate Super Saiyan 2 Gohan too, he's written in a way where you're SUPPOSED to hate him. Yet, ironically, he's loved.

Many people just want to see a overwhelmingly powerful fighter. That's pretty much all that they like about teen SSJ2 Gohan. That and the cheap feels with 16's death.

Well no, there's definitely some catharsis from SSJ2 Gohan beating up Cell, who has been a colossal jerk for the arc. Yes, Gohan goes too far, but it was never really his conscious decision to release his power, so it's kind of hard to fault him for it.

[Basaku]

The Android/Cell arc is one of the low points in the original story and has aged horribly.

On the contrary, it is the best written part of DBZ

Nah. That honour belongs to either the Freeza arc or the Saiyan arc. Besides, the Z-Fighters could have prevented the Android/Cell arc before it even started, but chose not to. Then it was downhill from there as stupid decision upon stupid decision lead to the Cell Games and Goku getting needlessly killed. And that's not even taking into consideration the time travel shenanigans.

Freeza/Saiyan got the best action and lore expansion (coming off original DB in particular) but they don't have much of a plot and none of its character writing can compare to what Toriyama done in Cell saga. Gohan/Future Gohan, Trunks, androids, Krillin/18 etc. Majority of the most memorable/beloved character writing moments among the fandom come from this saga. And Toriyama even managed to work out the time travel shenanigans well, split timelines choice was smart move that allowed him to escape any grandpa paradox issues. The plot of this arc is much more complex. I value Saiyan/Freeza saga very high but I think Toriyama peaked in Cell arc (with fast decline starting in Buu) and not already in Saiyan/Freeza.

By no means it aged badly, even with stupid Goku/Vegeta's plan to fight androids instead of destroying Gero's lab beforehand. Buu arc is clear example of aging badly as will many parts of Super unfortunately.

[ABED]

Sometimes simple is better and it's not like it's a secret that once Trunks tells Goku about the Cyborgs, they are now pretty much a monster of their own making. So while it's not out of character, it doesn't quite have the same sense of impending doom as the Saiyans coming to Earth or the inevitable fight against Freeza. In the Saiyan arc, I felt a greater sense of drama and emotion from the characters fates that I just don't in the Cell arc.

[fadeddreams5]

I honestly can't decide which I like better between the Saiyan/Namek saga and Android one. As a kid, I liked the latter more, hands down, and sort of didn't like the Namek arc until the Ginyu Force part. >.>

To me, the Buu saga is the weakest link of all the stories in DBZ. The Kid Buu arc is the only one I've ever really found myself revisiting multiple times.

[Doctor.]

I, too, thought the Boo arc was the weakest link in the story for a long while. But gradually, I've learned to appreciate the Boo arc a lot more and dislike the Cell arc (which I've once considered the second best arc) and the 22nd TB, which are the two worst arcs in the series now imo. This doesn't mean I think the Boo arc is good, though, but I think it's easily the most entertaining arc of the series, however.

[MarCas92]

I, too, thought the Boo arc was the weakest link in the story for a long while. But gradually, I've learned to appreciate the Boo arc a lot more and dislike the Cell arc (which I've once considered the second best arc) and the 22nd TB, which are the two worst arcs in the series now imo. This doesn't mean I think the Boo arc is good, though, but I think it's easily the most entertaining arc of the series, however.

Why such a low opinion of the 22nd Budokai if you don't mind me asking? I've heard very little negative things about it so I'd like to hear/read a different opinion.

[Doctor.]

Why such a low opinion of the 22nd Budokai if you don't mind me asking? I've heard very little negative things about it so I'd like to hear/read a different opinion.

I think it's painfully boring. Tenshinhan is a boring antagonist, and Chaozu's a waste of space as it is, the fights are all relatively underwhelming and uninteresting, including the final fight where it was basically Goku one-upping Tenshinhan the entire time, and then losing through sheer luck, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it's lame. Only thing I really enjoyed was Roshi's character arc coming to an end. If the arc wasn't so short, I'm positive I'd dislike it even more.

[Lord Beerus]

I, too, thought the Boo arc was the weakest link in the story for a long while. But gradually, I've learned to appreciate the Boo arc a lot more and dislike the Cell arc (which I've once considered the second best arc) and the 22nd TB, which are the two worst arcs in the series now imo. This doesn't mean I think the Boo arc is good, though, but I think it's easily the most entertaining arc of the series, however.

Oh, I love the Majin Boo arc. It feels like such a throwback to the days of when Dragon Ball knew how to properly balance comedy, action and drama, while developing characters, too. Not to mention the filler in the anime adaption is only bested by the Saiyan arc filler.

[rereboy]

I hate Super Saiyan 2 Gohan too, he's written in a way where you're SUPPOSED to hate him. Yet, ironically, he's loved.

Many people just want to see a overwhelmingly powerful fighter. That's pretty much all that they like about teen SSJ2 Gohan. That and the cheap feels with 16's death.

Well no, there's definitely some catharsis from SSJ2 Gohan beating up Cell, who has been a colossal jerk for the arc. Yes, Gohan goes too far, but it was never really his conscious decision to release his power, so it's kind of hard to fault him for it.

Gohan has no personal conection with Cell and he was out of the fighting for the whole arc. Cell being a jerk to him is just a last minute thing as they fight, without any interaction between them before that. That makes the catharsis of Gohan surpassing Cell just as shallow as Gohan becoming that emotional over the death of an Android he had never talked to before (instead of getting that way over his friends and family being on the brink of death).

[Kid Buu]

the final fight where it was basically Goku one-upping Tenshinhan the entire time, and then losing through sheer luck, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it's lame.

That bugged me too. It was basically just pure Goku-wank that him losing the main fight consisted of him one-upping his foe and then losing through a technicality.

[ABED]

Tenshinhan is a boring antagonist, and Chaozu's a waste of space as it is, the fights are all relatively underwhelming and uninteresting

I ardently disagree. Tenshinhan is one of the more interesting conflicted characters in the entire series and Chaozu was at his most interesting in this arc. The fight between Tenshinhan and Jackie Chun is one of the more dramatic one in the series and Goku vs. Kuririn was just fun.

the final fight where it was basically Goku one-upping Tenshinhan the entire time, and then losing through sheer luck, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it's lame.

That bugged me too. It was basically just pure Goku-wank that him losing the main fight consisted of him one-upping his foe and then losing through a technicality.

It wasn't Goku just one upping Tenshinhan, they were on a pretty even level. Both were countering each other.

It feels like such a throwback to the days of when Dragon Ball knew how to properly balance comedy, action and drama

I don't think the Buu arc is properly balanced, it goes pretty heavily in the comedic territory in things like the battle between Gotenks and Buu.

[Scorpio Kardia]

For me Goku is a one dimensional putz. I suppose that's a pretty unpopular opinion within the fandom even though the one person I introduced Dragon Ball to agreed with me.

[Kid Buu]

Tenshinhan is a boring antagonist, and Chaozu's a waste of space as it is, the fights are all relatively underwhelming and uninteresting

I ardently disagree. Tenshinhan is one of the more interesting conflicted characters in the entire series and Chaozu was at his most interesting in this arc. The fight between Tenshinhan and Jackie Chun is one of the more dramatic one in the series and Goku vs. Kuririn was just fun.

the final fight where it was basically Goku one-upping Tenshinhan the entire time, and then losing through sheer luck, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it's lame.

That bugged me too. It was basically just pure Goku-wank that him losing the main fight consisted of him one-upping his foe and then losing through a technicality.

It wasn't Goku just one upping Tenshinhan, they were on a pretty even level. Both were countering each other.

I think it was would have been more of an interesting plot twist if Goku did legitimately lose the fight rather than through a technicality.

[Doctor.]

For me Goku is a one dimensional putz. I suppose that's a pretty unpopular opinion within the fandom even though the one person I introduced Dragon Ball to agreed with me.

But Goku, objectively, isn't a one-dimensional character. He's two-dimensional at the very least, and three-dimensional is what would best suit him.

[ABED]

For me Goku is a one dimensional putz. I suppose that's a pretty unpopular opinion within the fandom even though the one person I introduced Dragon Ball to agreed with me.

But Goku, objectively, isn't a one-dimensional character. He's two-dimensional at the very least, and three-dimensional is what would best suit him.

I think there are only two and three dimensional characters. Two dimensions is analogous to length and width. The third dimension is depth. While I wouldn't qualify Goku as a deep character, he's a well drawn character (so to speak) he has a consistent basis for all of his choices.

I think it was would have been more of an interesting plot twist if Goku did legitimately lose the fight rather than through a technicality.

Would losing via ring out be a technicality? It was luck, but I don't think ring outs qualify as a technicality. I think it's a bit of a deus ex machine, but it never bothered me because it wasn't a fight against some big bad and it leads to Goku pushing himself to get better so he won't have to win/lose by sheer luck.

[Scorpio Kardia]

For me Goku is a one dimensional putz. I suppose that's a pretty unpopular opinion within the fandom even though the one person I introduced Dragon Ball to agreed with me.

But Goku, objectively, isn't a one-dimensional character. He's two-dimensional at the very least, and three-dimensional is what would best suit him.

Sure I can give you two-dimensional since in terms of naivety he does change. But he never underwent a psychological and emotional change of any sort, in that aspect he's pretty one-dimensional. But more than that I just think he's a putz.

[DBZAOTA482]

Dunno if this is unpopular but I don't think the writing for the series isn't as hectic or ill-thought out as people think considering the major writing issues people complain about didn't start to show up till around the Android Saga. It's perfectly fine especially for a series written at the seat of pants.

The 22nd Budokai - Freeza Saga was great, near-flawless work. Android/Cell Saga was flawed but good. The Majin Boo Saga was a mess but still enjoyable since it was aware it wasn't quality writing and had fun with it.

[Doctor.]

For me Goku is a one dimensional putz. I suppose that's a pretty unpopular opinion within the fandom even though the one person I introduced Dragon Ball to agreed with me.

But Goku, objectively, isn't a one-dimensional character. He's two-dimensional at the very least, and three-dimensional is what would best suit him.

Sure I can give you two-dimensional since in terms of naivety he does change. But he never underwent a psychological and emotional change of any sort, in that aspect he's pretty one-dimensional. But more than that I just think he's a putz.

Sure he did, he accepted his Saiyan heritage for example and then you have underrated scenes of development like him threatening Kaioshin that go completely against his previous characterization. I can agree that he's a putz though, but he's like that on purpose.

[Scorpio Kardia]

Sure he did, he accepted his Saiyan heritage for example and then you have underrated scenes of development like him threatening Kaioshin that go completely against his previous characterization. I can agree that he's a putz though, but he's like that on purpose.

I wouldn't say those examples prove that he's not one-dimensional in terms of emotion or psychology. They didn't change anything about him. His acceptance of his "saiyan heritage" didn't really change anything about his persona or way of being. I also don't see Goku threatening Supreme Kai as something that revolutionary; he's killed before, that scene didn't come as a shock to me. In fact I'd expect Goku to do just that to pretty much anyone trying to get in between his opportunity to have a good fight.

[Basaku]

The 22nd Budokai - Freeza Saga was great, near-flawless work. Android/Cell Saga was flawed but good. The Majin Boo Saga was a mess but still enjoyable since it was aware it wasn't quality writing and had fun with it.

Taking itself less seriously and being lazy about its own quality are different things, one doesn't excuse another and is rather insulting to quality comedy/satire writing which is just as hard as quality dramatic writing.

Oh, I love the Majin Boo arc. It feels like such a throwback to the days of when Dragon Ball knew how to properly balance comedy, action and drama, while developing characters, too. Not to mention the filler in the anime adaption is only bested by the Saiyan arc filler.

You mean the days when it did not become the success it did during most dramatic Saiyan/Freeza/Cell sagas? As for proper balance, it hardly adds much when overall writing quality and plot construction declined heavily compared to previous 2 sagas. It's not that there wasn't some good worthy stuff in Buu, there sure was, but there was also a LOT more crap there versus other 2 major DBZ sagas and the plot had the least excitement, twists&turns etc.