Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Hot Rod » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:22 pm

It is kind of hard to say Dragon Ball is the greatest, at least for me. I grew up watching all those classics like Yu-Gi-Oh!, Digimon, Beyblade, Zatch Bell, Naruto and these more recent ones Death Note and Avatar. Comparing them with Dragon Ball is unfair, they all have some aspects/elements handled better than Dragon Ball, on the other hand Dragon Ball also has some aspects/elements that are better... I would not say it is the greatest, but also it is not too far from being, it is just that Dragon Ball is not alone.

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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Dotogam » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:29 am

I like two other Anime better than Dragon Ball. Death Note and Ouran High School Host Club. Dragon Ball still is absolutely amazing, just not my absolute favorite.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Cetra » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:51 am

Not in my book, but it is pretty high on my list. And even though I love Dragon Ball more I think One Piece deserves the popularity it gets (that One Piece gets).
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:57 am

It's kind of like asking is Star Wars the greatest film series ever made.

As far as storytelling goes neither Star Wars nor Dragon Ball is the greatest thing since Shakespeare, but no one can deny the impact either franchise had on its native genre (Star Wars on film, and Dragon Ball on animation) or their relevance in popular culture.

And at the end of the day huge franchises like that bring people together, which carries its own benefits (think the people who create Dragon Ball content professionally), and isn't that an important feat in itself?
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by MajinMan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:28 am

There is no "greatest cartoon ever." These things are opinion based, and if you ask me, yes, Dragon Ball is my favorite series, so I think that it's the greatest cartoon ever. The whole "I'm a big fan of the series but I know it has lots of flaws" thing is far too common within the upper echelon of this fanbase. If you like it more than any other cartoon out there, who's there to stop you from calling it the best? Nobody.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:53 am

MajinMan wrote:There is no "greatest cartoon ever." These things are opinion based, and if you ask me, yes, Dragon Ball is my favorite series, so I think that it's the greatest cartoon ever. The whole "I'm a big fan of the series but I know it has lots of flaws" thing is far too common within the upper echelon of this fanbase. If you like it more than any other cartoon out there, who's there to stop you from calling it the best? Nobody.
Well, yeah, it's obviously subjective. Everyone has the right to their opinion, of course, but I'm absolutely sure that Dragon Ball wouldn't generally be considered the greatest animated program of all time. It just wouldn't be.

Again, I'm not saying that people don't have the right to their opinion, I'm just saying that Dragon Ball wouldn't, for example, place high on a TV Guide list of "greatest animated programs of all time"; it would be going up against Looney Tunes, The Simpsons, and Mickey Mouse.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by MajinMan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:09 pm

DoomieDoomie911 wrote:
MajinMan wrote:There is no "greatest cartoon ever." These things are opinion based, and if you ask me, yes, Dragon Ball is my favorite series, so I think that it's the greatest cartoon ever. The whole "I'm a big fan of the series but I know it has lots of flaws" thing is far too common within the upper echelon of this fanbase. If you like it more than any other cartoon out there, who's there to stop you from calling it the best? Nobody.
Well, yeah, it's obviously subjective. Everyone has the right to their opinion, of course, but I'm absolutely sure that Dragon Ball wouldn't generally be considered the greatest animated program of all time. It just wouldn't be.

Again, I'm not saying that people don't have the right to their opinion, I'm just saying that Dragon Ball wouldn't, for example, place high on a TV Guide list of "greatest animated programs of all time"; it would be going up against Looney Tunes, The Simpsons, and Mickey Mouse.
Of course it wouldn't. It wasn't/isn't as popular as those cartoons were/are worldwide. But if you ask kids today, do you think any of those shows would top the list? Of course not. If you ask an older audience, they'll be biased with their generation's cartoons. Nothing can give a legitimate answer to this question. The only way would be if, by some random chance, 30% of the world agreed on what the best cartoon ever made is. After that you can safely say that it is the best cartoon.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Bullza » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:14 pm

Even though it's my favourite, no it isn't the best. The best I'd say was either Death Note or Batman: The Animated Series.

IGN once did a Top 100 animated series and Dragon Ball Z came in at 78th.

On IMDB Dragon Ball Z is in the Top 250 TV shows list as well, it's 49th (and 51st) overall and 10th as far as cartoons go.

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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by BoosterZabi » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:06 pm

I love Dragon Ball and always was a huge fan since I was a sprout in the 90's, but no, I wouldn't consider it the greatest anime. Not even in the top 10. It's a guilty pleasure for sure and it's entertaining, but at the end of the day it's a Shonen manga; cheap animation with the premise of getting stronger beat villain rinse repeat.

I wouldn't put it in the cartoon category either, but that's just me.

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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:15 am

No. It's not even my favorite shonen series (that's Rurouni Kenshin), or anime series in general.

Dragon Ball will always have a place in my heart, but there are several animated shows that mop the floor with it in terms of storytelling and action.

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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Cipher » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:24 am

Toriyama's whimsy and lack of pretentiousness puts it over anything else in its genre/demographic for me, but uh, that's really a matter of taste. Far be it from me to call it the greatest entry in its entire medium. I don't think I could stand by that.

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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:32 am

Greatest Action Cartoon Ever? Possibly.

Greatest Cartoon Ever? No.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Kendamu » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:00 am

Absolutely not. Dragon Ball is a wonderful story and I could argue that it ranks up super high in regards to great manga, but the anime version is not the greatest cartoon ever by far. While the voices, acting, and music were wonderful, it loses a lot of points in my book for how it handled filler and its "bad animation days" after a certain point in the series. I say this going from when Goku met Bulma through Goku running off with Uub. If we cut it off before the show got a name change (at the end of the 23rd Budokai), I think it might run closer to the top of a list of best cartoons ever.

Mind you, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (the 80s one) is one of my unquestioned all-time favorites and, when looking at it honestly, it doesn't even rank up that high among the best cartoons ever for several reasons even though I love the acting, the music, a lot of the humor, and the overall plot for the show. So, when I say Dragon Ball isn't all that, I'm not saying that I don't like it. I'm saying it about a series that I love even with its shortcomings.

So you have an idea on how I came to this conclusion, something closer to the top that aired in the same time period would probably be Batman: The Animated Series.

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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by shinmaru » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:50 am

For me, it's definitely the best and one of the most addicted anime/cartoons ever.
I'm almost 33years old and I'm still very addicted to Dragon Ball.

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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:20 pm

Kendamu wrote:Absolutely not. Dragon Ball is a wonderful story and I could argue that it ranks up super high in regards to great manga, but the anime version is not the greatest cartoon ever by far. While the voices, acting, and music were wonderful, it loses a lot of points in my book for how it handled filler and its "bad animation days" after a certain point in the series. I say this going from when Goku met Bulma through Goku running off with Uub. If we cut it off before the show got a name change (at the end of the 23rd Budokai), I think it might run closer to the top of a list of best cartoons ever.

Mind you, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (the 80s one) is one of my unquestioned all-time favorites and, when looking at it honestly, it doesn't even rank up that high among the best cartoons ever for several reasons even though I love the acting, the music, a lot of the humor, and the overall plot for the show. So, when I say Dragon Ball isn't all that, I'm not saying that I don't like it. I'm saying it about a series that I love even with its shortcomings.

So you have an idea on how I came to this conclusion, something closer to the top that aired in the same time period would probably be Batman: The Animated Series.
I can see Batman TAS easily being in the top 5 solely for how much it changed the Batman game for the character in almost all aspects afterwards. From making a initial one shot henchmen of the Joker into one of DC's fan favorites, giving a origin of Mr. Freeze that has since been used in almost every Batman comic featuring him, and of course Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill widely considered to be the iconic performances of Batman and The Joker respectively.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:18 pm

It's a fun show. But I wouldn't even rank it among the best anime. I consider Kenshin, FMA, and Inu-yasha to all be superior, and I'm currently watching Attack on Titan for the first time, and it's blowing Dragon Ball out of the water entirely.

Dragon Ball is cheap, fun entertainment. Which is perfectly fine, as that's all it was ever meant to be. It's no masterpiec.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:21 pm

With my nostalgia glasses on I'd say hell yeah but looking at it now from a more objective point of view, I wouldn't even say its best-done show I watched as a kid but certainly the most entertaining. If nothing else, it's easily one of the most successful and influential series of the past few decades.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by ssjjanemba » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:35 pm

I have dbz as my 2nd favourite cartoon right behind the Simpsons.
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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Cipher » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:59 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:It's a fun show. But I wouldn't even rank it among the best anime. I consider Kenshin, FMA, and Inu-yasha to all be superior, and I'm currently watching Attack on Titan for the first time, and it's blowing Dragon Ball out of the water entirely.

Dragon Ball is cheap, fun entertainment. Which is perfectly fine, as that's all it was ever meant to be. It's no masterpiec.
To be fair, those anime aren't masterpieces of storytelling either.

I think this is actually (subjective! subjective! (kinda)) what gets me about other anime, particularly in the shonen demographic. They gesture at thematic and emotional weight, but in a way that tends to be heavy-handed and secondary enough that there's still an enormous gulf between them and more, uh, purely "literary" fiction. Just enough to make them frustrating, though it's great for the target demographic and I won't argue it doesn't make for a compelling single watch.

But as an adult reader/viewer, Toriyama's complete lack of pretension and balance of whimsy and drama is much more appealing.

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Re: Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

Post by Captain-Sora » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:29 pm

Cipher wrote:I think this is actually (subjective! subjective! (kinda)) what gets me about other anime, particularly in the shonen demographic. They gesture at thematic and emotional weight, but in a way that tends to be heavy-handed and secondary enough that there's still an enormous gulf between them and more, uh, purely "literary" fiction. Just enough to make them frustrating, though it's great for the target demographic and I won't argue it doesn't make for a compelling single watch.

But as an adult reader/viewer, Toriyama's complete lack of pretension and balance of whimsy and drama is much more appealing.
This is definitely one of the strengths of Dragon Ball. Other series of its ilk can still be somewhat enjoyable and have well-written stories, but the heavy-handed melodrama and sappy dialogue can really be a bit too much at times. Dragon Ball avoids all of that and, as a result, the characters feel more "real" even though a lot of them would be considered less "complex" than those found in other shonen series and such. The characters actually, y'know, talk like human beings. They don't spout monologues about the darkness or sadness within one's heart, or that the power of love is a curious thing and that it makes one man weep, and another man sing.

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