Thoughts on SSJ2 Teen Gohan

[The Patrolman]

First off is he 9 or 11? Moving on I used to like this form so much as a kid. When I got older and watched the Japanese version, I got little teared up because of how beautiful it was. But as I said I got older and I finally saw the flaw of this form. What I hated about this form is how people misrepresented it. They kept on saying on how its SO FUCKING BADASS or THIS WAS THE LAST TIME I WAS GOHAN FAN etc. To me those people aren't Gohan fans they just like a certain part of Gohan (hoped that didn't come off harsh). This was supposed to be Gohan OOC but its now represented as this hierarchy of any character in the series. To me its an immature state of Gohan character where lets his anger get the better of him instead mastering it.

[DBZAOTA482]

That's a general flaw with SSJ. It increases the user's aggression if not mastered.

Vegeta himself said that SSJ made him more on the edge.

[MozillaVulpix]

That's the point. Gohan's supposed to be out-of-character once he transforms. It's supposed to be kind of terrifying. You don't want him to keep being like that. You want him to get his reason back. Which he does, thankfully. But it takes his father sacrificing his life to do it.

That's why the final beam struggle was so important. People complain about Cell's return being contrived, and it is, but the fight would have been terrible if it ended with Gohan still being consumed by rage.

[EXBadguy]

To me those people aren't Gohan fans they just like a certain part of Gohan (hoped that didn't come off harsh).

Nah, cuz I actually didn't like Gohan that much prior to the Cell saga, and I mean the anime version of it, as there was build-up to his moments, whereas the manga didn't show that(and that's why sometimes I hate the manga), so I do see why some folks don't embrace the Gohan development as much as most people do in general, cuz let's be honest, Gohan's fight with Cell IS one of the most loved fights. As for me liking Gohan, I actually thought that he was gonna develop into a brave and balanced warrior, still have his study habits, but overcame his hatred for fighting, too bad sagas involving pink blobs and purple cats had to fuck it up.

That's a general flaw with SSJ. It increases the user's aggression if not mastered.

Too bad people didn't call Goku "immature" when he first acheived it.

As for the form in general, it can be OOC, but let's not forget that it was also the time when Gohan finally took control of the anger he had.

[Doctor.]

It's supposed to show Gohan as a very flawed and weak-minded character, he was a complex character before, but the Super Saiyan 2 transformation is what puts him among Dragon Ball's best. It's a beautiful scene, but for all of the opposite reasons most Gohan fans like it. You're supposed to hate Gohan after he turns Super Saiyan 2, he's portrayed in a way where that intent is obvious.

[TheatreStyleKai]

You're supposed to hate Gohan after he turns Super Saiyan 2, he's portrayed in a way where that intent is obvious.

Then Toriyama objectively failed.

[EXBadguy]

Yeah, to me, it's also one of DBZ's bests, but I also think it's one of it's saddest moments, to the point of where you actually felt bad for him for letting all of his anger out, hence why you him crying. Still, he controlled all of that in the end.

[Doctor.]

You're supposed to hate Gohan after he turns Super Saiyan 2, he's portrayed in a way where that intent is obvious.

Then Toriyama objectively failed.

I guess. I wouldn't blame it solely on Toriyama. Goku's transformation was also portrayed in a negative light and yet that flew over many people's heads.

[Lunatic Fringe]

You're supposed to hate Gohan after he turns Super Saiyan 2, he's portrayed in a way where that intent is obvious.

Then Toriyama objectively failed.

I guess. I wouldn't blame it solely on Toriyama. Goku's transformation was also portrayed in a negative light and yet that flew over many people's heads.

Well, having them both stomp the series' main villain kinda ruins that. What else should the viewer experience but catharsis for all the evil that Freeza and Cell did respectively?

[Doctor.]

The audience was supposed to feel something about the emotional struggle that both characters went through with their respective transformations. You can feel more than one thing at the same time, there were a lot of things you were supposed to think during both fights.

But I'm not saying I expected anything less. This IS a franchise aimed towards kids, after all, and kids only care about the cool fights and the good guy beating up the bad guy. I just expected most adult and older teenage fans of the franchise to be more alert to these kinds of things, when even that's not the case.

[ekrolo2]

You're supposed to hate Gohan after he turns Super Saiyan 2, he's portrayed in a way where that intent is obvious.

Then Toriyama objectively failed.

I guess. I wouldn't blame it solely on Toriyama. Goku's transformation was also portrayed in a negative light and yet that flew over many people's heads.

Toriyama does show why Gohan transforming also ended up being a bad thing because it went to his head and it got Goku killed but how is Goku transforming supposed to be viewed in a negative light? Unless you count it breaking something inside Goku's head to put dumb Saiyan logic above all else as the negative aspect.

[Doctor.]

Toriyama does show why Gohan transforming also ended up being a bad thing because it went to his head and it got Goku killed but how is Goku transforming supposed to be viewed in a negative light? Unless you count it breaking something inside Goku's head to put dumb Saiyan logic above all else as the negative aspect.

It wasn't portrayed as negatively as Gohan's, but it did start as something off-putting. Kaio constantly keeps saying that Goku isn't himself and that he's not thinking straight, and that his attitude is gonna get him killed on Namek, when he could have killed Freeza and gotten out of there. Of course eventually he ends up regaining his senses, but at the start Toriyama portrayed his transformation as something negative (you know, ignoring the fact that it's what would defeat Freeza and whatnot). So, yeah, basically the start of him putting dumb logic above everything else.

[EXBadguy]

So by that logic, fans are also supposed to feel ashamed for liking both of the angry transformation scenes?

EDIT: Also, to the ones saying that the reader is supposed to hate SSJ2 Gohan, did Toriyama say this, or you're just making inferences and speculations? No way I'm saying it's a bad thing or anything.

[Lunatic Fringe]

The audience was supposed to feel something about the emotional struggle that both characters went through with their respective transformations. You can feel more than one thing at the same time, there were a lot of things you were supposed to think during both fights.

But I'm not saying I expected anything less. This IS a franchise aimed towards kids, after all, and kids only care about the cool fights and the good guy beating up the bad guy. I just expected most adult and older teenage fans of the franchise to be more alert to these kinds of things, when even that's not the case.

Well, you said it yourself. The audience is kids should we try searching for a deeper meaning beyond the surface level? I mean, I would think that if they wanted to make Gohan unlikeable, he'd so something like, oh, attack some of his friends on the sidelines while they all try to talk some sense into him, kinda like the Hulk. Even with him talking back to his Dad about finishing off Cell, he still had things well under his control and only got caught off guard by a kamikaze attempt. Should he have listened to Goku? Absolutely, even without hindsight in play here but I would think that if the audience was supposed to hate Gohan for what he became, he'd start doing things alongside of the more malicious acts that have solidly defined objectively evil characters.

[Doctor.]

So by that logic, fans are also supposed to feel ashamed for liking both of the angry transformation scenes?

I don't know how you interpreted any of that from what I just posted. I love both of the transformation scenes. At the risk of sounding pretentious here, I'm saying most fans don't get the point, or if they do, they don't care. I didn't say anyone should feel "ashamed", or that they should even change the way they interpret the scenes.

[ekrolo2]

So by that logic, fans are also supposed to feel ashamed for liking both of the angry transformation scenes?

EDIT: Also, to the ones saying that the reader is supposed to hate SSJ2 Gohan, did Toriyama say this, or you're just making inferences and speculations? No way I'm saying it's a bad thing or anything.

It doesn't mean you should feel ashamed or bad about liking them, there's a lot to like about them, it's just another interpretation of those scenes that has stuff from the story itself backing it up.

The audience was supposed to feel something about the emotional struggle that both characters went through with their respective transformations. You can feel more than one thing at the same time, there were a lot of things you were supposed to think during both fights.

But I'm not saying I expected anything less. This IS a franchise aimed towards kids, after all, and kids only care about the cool fights and the good guy beating up the bad guy. I just expected most adult and older teenage fans of the franchise to be more alert to these kinds of things, when even that's not the case.

Well, you said it yourself. The audience is kids should we try searching for a deeper meaning beyond the surface level? I mean, I would think that if they wanted to make Gohan unlikeable, he'd so something like, oh, attack some of his friends on the sidelines while they all try to talk some sense into him, kinda like the Hulk. Even with him talking back to his Dad about finishing off Cell, he still had things well under his control and only got caught off guard by a kamikaze attempt. Should he have listened to Goku? Absolutely, even without hindsight in play here but I would think that if the audience was supposed to hate Gohan for what he became, he'd start doing things alongside of the more malicious acts that have solidly defined objectively evil characters.

If this was DB I'd say no but when you start doing things like an empire built on genocide, kids getting beaten to death or outright killed and apocalyptic futures that are played straight, it's not as easy to just handwave something as "oh it's just kid stuff". As for Gohan being unlikable well I'd argue everyone but FT is a completely unlikable shit head in the Cell Saga who deserved to get whatever fate they sowed for themselves by not killing Gero like Bulma told them to. Gohan intentionally keeping Cell alive only to torture and humiliate him instead of just killing him during their first Kamehameha clash is just the latest of these Cell Saga related instances.

[Kamiccolo9]

One problem is the dub music makes them out to be BADASS scenes. Kikuchi uses a scarier track for the transformations. Then dub people get all offended when told that they completely missed the point.

[TheatreStyleKai]

As for Gohan being unlikable well I'd argue everyone but FT is a completely unlikable shit head in the Cell Saga who deserved to get whatever fate they sowed for themselves by not killing Gero like Bulma told them to. Gohan intentionally keeping Cell alive only to torture and humiliate him instead of just killing him during their first Kamehameha clash is just the latest of these Cell Saga related instances.

You know to be fair, Trunks seems fully aware of the Dragon Balls and the ability to locate them, so there was nothing stopping him from enacting that plan himself. So you might have to add him to that list of unlikable heroes as well.

[Kamiccolo9]

Also, pet peeve. OP, you acknowledge that Gohan is "9 or 11." So why call him "teen" Gohan?

[Hot Rod]

As for his personality, I loved. Finally he totally got rid of his immature personality even when is only nine years old. That personality is what we should see oftenly when the others also transform into Super Saiyan 2, but both Goku and Vegeta apparently didn't portray such traits. And I think that is the only good part about him.