18 vs the Boys

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

You don't have to take the Daizenshuu statement in its entirety, but it seems pretty odd to ignore it altogether. If Goten is weaker than Gohan, but close enough that continuously play fighting will Trunks will allow him to eventually surpass Gohan, that alone puts them well above #18 and within Gohan's range of power. Gohan was slacking, but not to the point where #18 was in his league.

Gohan was having a tough enough time just defending against Goten while sparring:

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dr ... -Oxtnc.jpg

Aura up and all. If Goten was so far below Gohan, I don't see how he'd have a hard time blocking his attacks.

It'd be more along the lines of something like this:

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/gain ... 10&fid=238

Future Gohan was easily blocking Trunks' attacks without being powered-up. The one who looked like he was having a hard time was Trunks.

Goten and Trunks can be weaker than Full-Power Super Saiyan Gohan or Goku from the Cell Games while still being way above Semi-Cell. Semi-Cell is fodder to Super Vegeta, who's fodder to 50% Goku. That's a wide range the kids could easily fall into. As for #18, she felt the intensity of Trunks' blast and realized that he had outrageous power. She had no idea the blast was purposely held-back and she still barely dodged it despite watching Trunks charge and release the attack. This is the same #18 that dodged Vegeta's Big Bang Attack and realized that his blast wasn't at full-power because it wasn't that strong. She can tell if an attack is weak or not.

[MindForgedManacle]

I'm less concerned with the Semi-Perfect Cell to Perfect Cell gap. I mostly think that if one accepts the Daizenshuu literally there, which Dakrprince seemed to be doing, you basically have a very odd contradiction. I wasn't ignoring it, but I always take these sorts of databook stuff with a grain of salt with any series. Inevitably, some contradictions crop up, probably because the authors forget things they'd previously written.

As for the Gohan fight, wasn't the problem that he wasn't used to fighting at high speeds anymore? This makes it an odd comparison to Future Gohan, who was still training (to some extent anyway).
And in the fight with #18, was the attack suppressed? Initially, Trunks says something like "Even if we hit her hard [with an energy attack], she won't die. She's #18!". Goten tells him to dial it down before he fires, but we don't really know how much he put into it. With Trunks' comment, it doesn't seem he thinks their attacks would kill her.
You could be right of course.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

With Gohan, he was just rusty. The image I posted was when they were training for the Budokai, which would presumably be their second time sparring. Not that he'd have all of his fighting ability back from that one session, but it at least gave him an understanding that Goten was not only a Super Saiyan, but also a lot more powerful than he thought. Usually when a much weaker guy sparred with a much stronger guy, they'd often block their attacks with little to no effort. Outside of the Future Gohan example. there's this:

Spoiler:

And this:

Spoiler:

Note: it's a title page, but that's the only time their training for the Androids was shown in the Manga.

As we can see, the more powerful guy is able to fend off their attacks with one arm. The reason why this seems to differ from Gohan is because he not only has to use both arms to defend against Goten, but he has his aura up. Usually when their aura is up, it's a good indication they're powered-up and giving their full-effort. It seems more likely he'd easily deflect Goten's flurry of attacks if he was so far ahead of him. This is just the way I see things. I admit there's no absolute truth to this stuff, but I try to give an elaborate explanation on things.

It seems to be a suppressed blast. Trunks doesn't think the attack will kill her as long as they're careful with it:

Goten: “Eh! But will she be alright?...”
Trunks: “Don’t worry, she won’t die if we do it appropriately. She’s No.18…”

So basically, if they don't overdo it, it won't kill her. If he used a blast that was too powerful, it'd most likely be a different story.

[Darkprince410]

Yes but again this is a fight. Why would #18 think that Trunks/Goten would only use a single blast? That would be a nonsense position to take. As for the punching machine, she obviously did suppress her power, which is why the machine wasn't destroyed. The point was that she didn't suppress it enough (she didn't even score the highest of the Z-Fighters did she?).

On her very first hit, she was over 3x as high as any of the others, and had to outright say it's difficult for her to hold back. Even with her second, more restrained hit, she still scored higher than everyone outside of Piccolo (with the exception of Vegeta, of course). It doesn't change the fact though that, for her, she's pulling her punches rather than being in a powered up/powered down state. She's going around at her full power, and is "restraining" herself by pulling her punches.

Those 2 were inexperienced fighters. Sure she could've knocked them unconscious, but you could say that about lots of fights. Why didn't Freeza immediately knock GOku unconscious when he was holding back a ridiculous amount of power? Or Vegeta when he fought Semi-Perfect Cell? You're taking plot points which occurred mostly for decisions made by Toriyama, and imbuing them with too much in-universe significance, all the while ignoring that you can't hold that position consistently with the series.

Because in both Freeza and Vegeta's cases, they wanted to humiliate and toy with their opponents, rather than just end them quickly. With #18 though, as you say, she wanted to win rather than fight, so she had absolutely no reason to not just rush them and knock them out if such was within her power to do. However, she instead went with something that, no matter what you say, she couldn't have known how they'd react to. It was sheer luck that the costume gave out when it did so that the ki-enzan would have zipped right between them like it did, otherwise it could have very well connected, in which case she would have seriously injured (if not killed) them.

Okay, so you're claim is that Trunks/Goten are still "right behind the adults". If that's true, what should we see in the series? We should see Trunks or Goten alone be strong enough to dominate #18, because you're saying those 2 are near the adult Saiyans' power levels. But they don't dominate #18, nor did she seem to think they would dominate her. The only evidence you have is her shock at their level of attack, but based on the developments in the Cell Saga, you're argument makes no sense to me.

Except not even the adults are able to dominate her in their base forms, as both BoG and Super established that Goku (and, by extension, Gohan and Vegeta at the time) were weaker than Freeza, who #18 was considerably stronger then. The boys didn't try fighting her in their Ssj form in any hand-to-hand sense, just an intentionally held back blast that she still freaked out about.

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P9.2-7
Context: as Trunks and Goten fight No.18 in their Mighty Mask costume
No.18: “…He really is a weird bastard…His arms and legs are extremely small for his body…And he’s so unusually strong…”
*they become Super Saiyans*
No.18: “!!”
Trunks: “Either way, we’re at a disadvantage in this getup, so we’ve got no choice but to settle this with a kiai cannon!”
Goten: “Eh! But will she be alright?...”
Trunks: “Don’t worry, she won’t die if we do it appropriately. She’s No.18…”

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P10.1-2
Context: as Trunks prepares to fire a ki blast at No.18
No.18: “…I see…Super Saiyan, huh?...I finally know your identity, boys…”
Goten: “Don’t do it at full force!”
Trunks: “I know, I know!”

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P12.4, P13.1
Context: after Trunks’ ki blast explodes
No.18: “Yo-you’ve got to be kidding…That energy bullet had absolutely incredible speed and destructive power…Co-could it be that those squirts have outrageous power?…This is dangerous! I’ve got to settle this fight soon!”

So she'd not die if they "did it appropriately" (i.e. restrained the blast), yet even restrained, she was panicked over just how powerful the attack was (with no indication that it was fear for the audience), and then went with a risky gamble of an attack to disqualify them.

Besides, the boys even went into the fight with her knowing that she was once stronger than their dads, but didn't seem too overly concerned about it.

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P12.3
Trunks: “Don’t let your guard down, Goten…I heard that Kuririn’s wife was stronger than our papas a long time ago…”
Goten: “Ye-yeah, I know…!”

If they weren't close to the adults in terms of power, then you'd think they'd be far more concerned about their chances of fighting her. Yet they tried taking her on in their base forms, only transforming when they agreed that the Mighty Mask costume was too cumbersome for them. If they were close to the adults though, then their lack of serious concern would make more sense though, as it'd mean that they were also above her in terms of power (which is what is indicated during their fight) and not that major of an opponent. Still a legitimate challenge in their base forms, but nothing to really scoff at when transformed.

[LowRyder2005]

Besides the Daizenshuu clearly stating that Goten should be at least very similar in power to Gohan, has it been brought to everyone's attention that Piccolo specifically refers to Goten and Trunks as the only, albeit slim, hope to beat Majin Buu when Vegeta/ Gohan/ Goku are supposed to be dead, Fusion is not yet discovered, and both himself (> #18) and #18 are still around?

Goten and Trunks are most likely at least around Cell Games' Gohan and Goku. Everything points to that: they've mastered the Super Saiyan, #18 is concerned with their power and resorts to make them disqualify them, they're considered the second-best option to beat Majin Buu after Goku, Vegeta and Gohan and yadda yadda yadda. There's not really any room to doubt it.

[Tectorman]

Besides the Daizenshuu clearly stating that Goten should be at least very similar in power to Gohan, has it been brought to everyone's attention that Piccolo specifically refers to Goten and Trunks as the only, albeit slim, hope to beat Majin Buu when Vegeta/ Gohan/ Goku are supposed to be dead, Fusion is not yet discovered, and both himself (> #18) and #18 are still around?

Goten and Trunks are most likely at least around Cell Games' Gohan and Goku. Everything points to that: they've mastered the Super Saiyan, #18 is concerned with their power and resorts to make them disqualify them, they're considered the second-best option to beat Majin Buu after Goku, Vegeta and Gohan and yadda yadda yadda. There's not really any room to doubt it.

Explaining Piccolo and the boys really just depends on how much of Piccolo's time in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber is used up, specifically whether he has any time left. If, for example, he used both his days during the ten-day gap before the Cell Games, then he could be way stronger than the boys but still see them as the only slim hope humanity has. Why? Because being way stronger than the boys but lacking any further capacity to get stronger in any kind of expeditious manner doesn't help. It's the boys two whole days in the HTC to use and the potential gains they can get that make them, not the currently stronger Piccolo, Earth's one slim chance.

Because if he's borderline Cell Junior strength, but has no more time to spend in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, then it wouldn't matter that the boys are only around Android 18 strength. That still puts them stronger than Goku and Vegeta (and Gohan) were when they went in the HTC. And they have a full two days to use. Given Gohan's gains after less than a year, Piccolo could well be thinking that a full year would put them equivalent to Majin Vegeta and a second year much stronger than that.

Maybe. I don't think Piccolo has anything like a coherent plan here yet.