GT Power Levels explain DB Super

[Kaboom]

You know that base goku (RoF) > SS4 gogeta ?

This is one of the most retarded sentences I've seen on this site .-.

This isn't even close to an acceptable response, no matter how much or little merit you think something has.

That said, apex_pretador, you're not doing yourself any favors with this "my opinion is fact" routine, especially with such a vague and off-the-walls topic like comparing GT's powers to Super's. There's very little material to go by, and so any opinion about it is inevitably going to be like 10% facts and 90% guessing.

If this discussion can't be had without civility and mutual respect, then it won't be had at all.

[apex_pretador]

Majuub couldn't do it.
So, Majuub << SS vegetto (buu arc)

How do you know Super Oob couldn't? He never fought Gohan-Boo.

Or like this:
SS vegetto >= SS4 goku (GT) = 10x SS goku > SS3 goku > SS goku > base goku = Ultimate gohan > SS gohan

That chain is incorrect considering Gohan is stated to have trained in between Z and GT.

SS in GT is nowhere near 50x boost. Simple.

Even going with the implied SS boost (in between 2x and 3x), Vegetto would still end up stronger than Gohan-Boo in base unless you ignore Gohan being stated to have trained.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Spoiler:

Whis
Beerus
Golden Freeza
SSB Goku [FnF]
SSB Vegeta [FnF]
Base Goku [FnF]
Base Vegeta [FnF]
SSG Goku [BoG]
Final Form Freeza [FnF, post-training]
SS4 Gogeta
Super Yi Xing Long
SS3 Vegetto
SS2 Vegetto
Enraged Vegeta [BoG]
SS4 Goku [beyond limits]
Yi Xing Long
Super Vegetto
SS4 Goku
SS4 Vegeta
Super Oob
SS3 Goku [GT]
Base Goku [GT]
Base Vegeta [GT]
Oob [GT]
SS Gohan [GT]
SS Trunks [GT]
SS Goten [GT]
Ultimate Gohan [GT]
Ultimate Gohan [Z]
SS3 Gotenks [Z]
SS3 Goku [Z]

I agree with this, especially the top half. Where do you have buuhan anyways?

Between Ultimate Gohan from Z & GT, I guess.

[Hellspawn28]

I say Super characters are way stronger then the ones in GT. No one in GT seem to put on the same level power that SSjG Goku and Beerus did in Super.

[Hitiro]

That's not from the Perfect Files. Furthermore, it can be interpreted as a general Super Saiyan 4 vs. Potara comparison. Given statements in the actual show, Vegetto being that strong is questionable at best.

It is highly unlikely this is a comparison of the techniques. For starters the sentence is clearly worded to say that it is "His strength" that perhaps surpasses SSJ4. The only way to take that is it is on about Vegetto himself, not the Potara. If it were on about the Potara's power then it would have given something that could have suggested it like "with a technique that perhaps surpasses even SSJ4!" and while it is established that this sentence is talking about Vegetto himself it would never compare a character to a transformation. That is nonsensical. Because a characters power varies and changes while a transformation will always be static and is based on who uses it. You can't say, for instance, that SSJ Vegetto's strength perhaps surpasses a SSJ4 when that SSJ4 is Vegetto. Now could you? The only way to take the SSJ4 statement is that it is suggesting Vegetto surpasses a character who had obtained SSJ4. Most likely SSJ4 Goku. I highly doubt it would be SSJ4 Gogeta.

Also the statements from the actual show have been explained before. We know characters haven't been shown to judge/sense their own Ki level so if Goku or Vegeta says "This is the strongest Ki I've ever felt." that would be no word of a lie if they would have never felt their Vegetto Ki. So in essence the statement is true but that doesn't mean that the Ki they are sensing is greater than Vegetto's Ki.

On the OP though, as people have said, you can't tie Super into GT. Too many inconsistencies arrive when you try. Such as why Goku and Vegeta don't use Blue SSJ? Why Freeza doesn't make use of his Golden form? etc.

-Edit: To further the point we also have things like Kibitoshin also being separated to add to it not being in the GT timeline.

There is also the fact that they now know there are other Saiyan's in universe 6 so Goku and Vegeta calling themselves the last Saiyan's is inaccurate too.

[Hugo Boss]

For starters the sentence is clearly worded to say that it is "His strength" that perhaps surpasses SSJ4. The only way to take that is it is on about Vegetto himself, not the Potara.

Actually, it doesn't say "HIS strength", it is talking about Goku merging with Vegeta.

[Hitiro]

For starters the sentence is clearly worded to say that it is "His strength" that perhaps surpasses SSJ4. The only way to take that is it is on about Vegetto himself, not the Potara.

Actually, it doesn't say "HIS strength", it is talking about Goku merging with Vegeta.

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/675786713587843073
Well I'm just using Herms translation in which he actually put "His strength." Unless you know something I don't? Otherwise it actually does say "his strength".

[Lord Beerus]

Spoiler:

Whis
Beerus
Golden Freeza
SSB Goku [FnF]
SSB Vegeta [FnF]
Base Goku [FnF]
Base Vegeta [FnF]
SSG Goku [BoG]
Final Form Freeza [FnF, post-training]
SS4 Gogeta
Super Yi Xing Long
SS3 Vegetto
SS2 Vegetto
Enraged Vegeta [BoG]
SS4 Goku [beyond limits]
Yi Xing Long
Super Vegetto
SS4 Goku
SS4 Vegeta
Super Oob
SS3 Goku [GT]
Base Goku [GT]
Base Vegeta [GT]
Oob [GT]
SS Gohan [GT]
SS Trunks [GT]
SS Goten [GT]
Ultimate Gohan [GT]
Ultimate Gohan [Z]
SS3 Gotenks [Z]
SS3 Goku [Z]

I'd personally put SSJ4 Gogeta and Super Yi Xing Long above Final Form Freeza (ROF), but those are really nitpicks. Apart from that, the list is perfect.

[Khin]

There's no way to powerscale GT and Super due to both not being in the same continuity,so all it goes by if we use feats.By using feats,even Enraged SSj2 Vegeta (Pushed a Universal to use 10% of his FP) is stronger than SSj4 Gogeta.By exluding those,i''ll go with DBZGTKOSDH scale.

[Saiyan007]

I say Super characters are way stronger then the ones in GT. No one in GT seem to put on the same level power that SSjG Goku and Beerus did in Super.

Let alone Champa and Beerus who were stopped by Vados and Whis who if left unchecked would've destroyed universe 6 and 7

That blows out anything in GT

[Khin]

GT is pretty strong too.Considering that GT follow the Anime instead of the manga.Kid Boo blowing up a galaxy is ''canon'' to GT but he does it overtime.But either way,that's a Multi-Solar System feat,using powerscaling of Base GT Goku > SSj3 Boo Arc Goku would make guys like SSj4 Goku around to possibly Multi-SS ++ to Small Galaxy level and people like SSj4 Gogeta around Small Galaxy to Galaxy level.But that's still nowhere near as the God Tiers.

[Darkprince410]

For starters the sentence is clearly worded to say that it is "His strength" that perhaps surpasses SSJ4. The only way to take that is it is on about Vegetto himself, not the Potara.

Actually, it doesn't say "HIS strength", it is talking about Goku merging with Vegeta.

No, as Hirito said, Herms' translation of the text does specifically refer to Vegetto's strength, and not just a combination of Goku and Vegeta.

[Hugo Boss]

For starters the sentence is clearly worded to say that it is "His strength" that perhaps surpasses SSJ4. The only way to take that is it is on about Vegetto himself, not the Potara.

Actually, it doesn't say "HIS strength", it is talking about Goku merging with Vegeta.

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/675786713587843073
Well I'm just using Herms translation in which he actually put "His strength." Unless you know something I don't? Otherwise it actually does say "his strength".

For context, this is the text I'm aware about:

"Merging with Vegeta!!
After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!?"

Assuming the final part, which Herms translated, says "[His] strength [is] perhaps greater than Super Saiyan 4!?", it doesn't mean the entire text is only talking about the individual self they become after merging, rather than two people using the method. In other words, this is about Goku and Vegeta merging together. If Herms permits, I would translate as "[their] [combined] strength", given multiple references of "they" and "them".

[Hitiro]

For context, this is the text I'm aware about:

"Merging with Vegeta!!
After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!?"

Assuming the final part, which Herms translated, says "[His] strength [is] perhaps greater than Super Saiyan 4!?", it doesn't mean the entire text is only talking about the individual self they become after merging, rather than two people using the method. In other words, this is about Goku and Vegeta merging together. If Herms permits, I would translate as "[their] [combined] strength", given multiple references of "they" and "them".

The text you are aware about, which Herms also translated, was from the Chinese version though. While I'm sure Herms has a fairly good grasp of Mandarin I would assume that he is still much stronger in Japanese than Chinese. In his twitter he specifically says "[His] strength [is] perhaps greater than Super Saiyan 4!?" which is translated from the Japanese version this time. Herms has deliberately put [] around his because in Japanese the word for he and she are synonymous. For example if you wanted to say "He is strong." in Japanese you can say "Ano kata wa tsuyoidesu." but "Ano kata" can mean both male and female thus you could see the sentence as "She is strong." The only way you can tell gender apart is with prior knowledge or if the sentence provides information that would tell you whether it was a boy or a girl. This is one of the reasons why Toriko's battlewolf in Toriko has had its sex changed various times due to the translators beliefs/preference. We actually are never given any information regarding its gender so that changes with the translator. But Herms as well as anybody else here knows that Vegetto is a male. But he still put the [] to point out that this is the case.

I'm not sure but I don't think the Japanese word can also be construed as more than one person in this instance. For example "Kare" is another way of saying He/she but "Karera" means they or them. I would think if this could be translated as "[Their] strength [is] perhaps greater than Super Saiyan 4!?" then surely Herms would have gone with that as their is a clear difference between "Kare" and "Karera"? Not that it should matter anyway. Either way, whether it is talking about Vegetto himself or the combined strength of Goku and Vegeta it would have nothing to do with the Potara themselves. Which was my original point.

[dbgtFO]

I thought he put the brackets around "his" and "is", because it was one of those sentences, where there wasn't any pronouns at all and so the literal translation would be something along the line of what Hugo Boss posted above, where it doesn't state "his" or "is."
So "Strength greater than SS4 perhaps?"

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

There's no way to powerscale GT and Super due to both not being in the same continuity,so all it goes by if we use feats.By using feats,even Enraged SSj2 Vegeta (Pushed a Universal to use 10% of his FP) is stronger than SSj4 Gogeta.By exluding those,i''ll go with DBZGTKOSDH scale.

Part of the reason I prefer the movie to the DBS version of Battle of Gods. At least in the movie version you can just have Enraged Vegeta slightly above Goku as opposed to like 1,000,000x stronger than Goku.

[dbgtFO]

Part of the reason I prefer the movie to the DBS version of Battle of Gods. At least in the movie version you can just have Enraged Vegeta slightly above Goku as opposed to like 1,000,000x stronger than Goku.

Agreed. Especially when they completely omit Whis' line of Beerus being forced to use 70% of his power against GODku, there was no need to put in that ridiculous line.
Then again Vegeta has been given a lot of credit in Super, so maybe the writers just want to cut him some slack and like Watanabe before them also believe that Vegeta is the secret star of the series?

[Hitiro]

I thought he put the brackets around "his" and "is", because it was one of those sentences, where there wasn't any pronouns at all and so the literal translation would be something along the line of what Hugo Boss posted above, where it doesn't state "his" or "is."
So "Strength greater than SS4 perhaps?"

I would have thought that generally if he uses brackets in these cases it is to distinguish words that could have several meanings and that he has chosen the best meaning for the given sentence. He has also done brackets where, I would assume, is where your example comes in as Herms distinguishes such lines with question marks where the line is unclear I think? As if you look in the Strength Checker there are lines such as these "Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against.", "I’ll draw out his hidden power to beyond [his? its?] limits!" and "Why is Majin Boo as [strong?] as this?…" Maybe it would help for Herms to clarify how he has structured his translations in relation to the line in question and these lines.

[apex_pretador]

There's no way to powerscale GT and Super due to both not being in the same continuity,so all it goes by if we use feats.By using feats,even Enraged SSj2 Vegeta (Pushed a Universal to use 10% of his FP) is stronger than SSj4 Gogeta.By exluding those,i''ll go with DBZGTKOSDH scale.

Part of the reason I prefer the movie to the DBS version of Battle of Gods. At least in the movie version you can just have Enraged Vegeta slightly above Goku as opposed to like 1,000,000x stronger than Goku.

Or vegeta is nowhere near 10% beerus.
All beerus said was "I've used nowhere near 10% of my power" , not that he mentioned anything like he was forced to use it, or he's even using it now.

[Darkprince410]

There's no way to powerscale GT and Super due to both not being in the same continuity,so all it goes by if we use feats.By using feats,even Enraged SSj2 Vegeta (Pushed a Universal to use 10% of his FP) is stronger than SSj4 Gogeta.By exluding those,i''ll go with DBZGTKOSDH scale.

Part of the reason I prefer the movie to the DBS version of Battle of Gods. At least in the movie version you can just have Enraged Vegeta slightly above Goku as opposed to like 1,000,000x stronger than Goku.

Or vegeta is nowhere near 10% beerus.
All beerus said was "I've used nowhere near 10% of my power" , not that he mentioned anything like he was forced to use it, or he's even using it now.

No, that's not what Beerus said.

Beerus: "It's been a long time since I've used 10% or so of my full strength. Well, this was more fun than with that Saiyan over at North Kaio's place."

He's specifically saying that he used around 10% of his power, and the way he says it suggests that Vegeta's power was enough that he felt it best to use that much of his strength before, essentially meaning that he was forced to use that much.